Until futher notice

imported post

For some of those who haven't been here long, here is an excellent video that further discusses how one should handle interactions with the police.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865

imported post

This is a fantastic video. I received a link to it in an e-mail a while back, and sat down to watch the entire thing in one sitting. It is long, but fascinating, and eye-opening.

imported post

That was really good, thanks for posting it.

imported post

DrTodd wrote:

For some of those who haven't been here long, here is an excellent video that further discusses how one should handle interactions with the police.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865

Click to expand...

very good video. But also watch the Police side of it also, there's a part 2 to that.

imported post

This is the whole video including both parts.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8167533318153586646&hl=en

imported post

conservative85 wrote:

I may be thought a radical for this advise but here goes.

"I exercise my 4th & 5th amendment rights

Click to expand...

That's one of the reasons why I wrote the, "WASH, RINSE, REPEAT" thread. It could be too easy to talk your way into a set of hand cuffs.

imported post

To me "lawful purpose" (should)include personal protection plain and simple.Why else would you carry a gun????

Two words added to the law and this crap will be cleared up.

I get so tired of "The right to bear arms shall not be infringed" not being understood.

imported post

Jblack44 wrote:

To me "lawful purpose" (should)include personal protection plain and simple.Why else would you carry a gun????

Two words added to the law and this crap will be cleared up.

I get so tired of "The right to bear arms shall not be infringed" not being understood.

Click to expand...

Some carry guns to commit crimes. Law abiding people carry to protect themselves and loved ones.

imported post

Venator wrote:

Jblack44 wrote:

To me "lawful purpose" (should)include personal protection plain and simple.Why else would you carry a gun????

Two words added to the law and this crap will be cleared up.

I get so tired of "The right to bear arms shall not be infringed" not being understood.

Click to expand...

Some carry guns to commit crimes. Law abiding people carry to protect themselves and loved ones.

Click to expand...

That's why it's part of "lawful purpose" For us law abiding people who actually follow the rules

imported post

dougwg wrote:

If you do not have your CPL

DO NOT USE A IWB (INSIDE THE WAISTBAND)HOLSTER WHILE OPEN CARRYING.

IF YOU TRANSPORTING YOUR GUN, ONLY GO FROM YOUR HOUSE TO PRIVATE PROPERTY USING A DIRECT ROUTE AND THEN BACK TO YOUR HOME.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO GO FROM YOUR HOUSE TO THE GAS STATION AND THEN SOMEWHERE ELSE, GO HOME AGAIN BEFORE GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE.

EXAMPLE:

HOME>TARGET>HOME>WALMART>HOME>BURGER KING

One of our members is being charged with 2 FELONY counts in Wayne county because of this.

I also hope more people will come out to support him when the time comes. He's being railroaded and if convicted he will have a felony record for the rest of his life. He's only 21.

Click to expand...

So every time that I drive to the UP for deer hunting and get off the freeway to gas up or grab a bite I'm potentially breaking the law? I'm leaving a "direct route" once I exit the freeway, right? I'm going winter camping tomorrow on some property my family has in the northern lower and was going to bring along a couple of rifles and my pistol, but now I'm not sure I will. Any input?

imported post

cmdio wrote:

dougwg wrote:

If you do not have your CPL

DO NOT USE A IWB (INSIDE THE WAISTBAND)HOLSTER WHILE OPEN CARRYING.

IF YOU TRANSPORTING YOUR GUN, ONLY GO FROM YOUR HOUSE TO PRIVATE PROPERTY USING A DIRECT ROUTE AND THEN BACK TO YOUR HOME.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO GO FROM YOUR HOUSE TO THE GAS STATION AND THEN SOMEWHERE ELSE, GO HOME AGAIN BEFORE GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE.

EXAMPLE:

HOME>TARGET>HOME>WALMART>HOME>BURGER KING

One of our members is being charged with 2 FELONY counts in Wayne county because of this.

I also hope more people will come out to support him when the time comes. He's being railroaded and if convicted he will have a felony record for the rest of his life. He's only 21.

Click to expand...

So every time that I drive to the UP for deer hunting and get off the freeway to gas up or grab a bite I'm potentially breaking the law? I'm leaving a "direct route" once I exit the freeway, right? I'm going winter camping tomorrow on some property my family has in the northern lower and was going to bring along a couple of rifles and my pistol, but now I'm not sure I will. Any input?

Click to expand...

My opinion is that you would be fine. The real issue here is what is defined as lawful purpose and does it only apply to those mentioned in the statute. Hunting is a lawful purpose so is transporting to private property and so is target shooting.

The current case is so full of crap that in my opinion it is going forward more as a harassment of OCers than what the law states.

In the end you must do what you feel comfortable with.

imported post

Lawful purpose, for definition of the transport, is a strange one. I live in the country, where the nearest town is 10 miles away. If I wanted to carry while in the town open carry, then there would only be one way to transport. In the trunk, in a case, and unloaded. There would be no way to get from where I live to Holland to open carry if it were not considered a lawful purpose. It's a catch 22.

Because I transport to Holland, does not mean I may change my mind while I am there, and decide to leave it alone in the trunk, and simply come home. This is a prime example of what the defense lawyer needs to point out. How can it be possible to exercise a right to open carry in the State of Michigan if one is denied the ability to carry as such in an inaccessible place as defined by law? Even that demonstration at the park this past summer by the Michigan group to Open Carry would be considered illegal right? Couldn't the officers be subpoenaed to testify that they did NOT arrest anyone there for open carry, even though it was very evident that the main group of people did not live in the city and were unable to participate unless they carried it their trunks?

imported post

bump

imported post

personal protection/self defense IMO IS a lawful purpose. If you don't have a CPL just follow the rules of keeping it unloaded, locked and out of reach (like in the trunk)

if you have a CPL, transport however you choose, but I agree. keep it exposed when in PFZ's.

it's funny how LE like to switch this to work against a person who otherwise is law abiding.

if you have your CPL and carry IWB, its exposed and if said LE don't know that OC is legal and get a call, you get HELL for it... if you don't have your CPL and carry IWB/partially exposed it is now considered concealed?

imported post

For reference, since it isn't already posted in this thread, here is the confusing law.




750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.

Sec. 231a.

(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

(b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.

(c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

(2) As used in this section:

(a) "Antique firearm" means either of the following:

(i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.

(ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

(b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:

(i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.

(ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.

(iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.

(iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.

(v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.

(vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

(vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

imported post

By the way, lastI knew, Lowes, Wal-Mart,Home Depot, Menards, Meijer,andothers are on privateproperty. The park is not on private party, but is rather "public" for all to enjoy. The bike trails are also public property, and so are the walks along roads, etc. All places that fall undersome"lawful place to carry".

imported post

Both the Constitution of the U.S. and the Constitution of the State of Michigan address the right of the people to carry a firearm for their protection.

Please read my SCOTUS rule that I posted at my website at http://taurus45acp.com/news/news.htm it addressed an actual supreme court ruling that said that if a law is created that charges a fee for a right, (1st amendment was cited in Wikipedia, but 2nd and all the others would certainly apply), that the law is void, as you cannot charge a fee for a right, else the law is null and void.

Do we not get charged a "fee" for the license to carry a concealed weapon? Then the law is worthless and cannot be used to present Prima facie evidence against anyone believed of carrying a concealed weapon. Read the SCOTUS ruling on this.