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OC in National Parks?

C

chris in va

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Forgive me if it's been discussed already.

As the new law takes effect on the 9th, are we then allowed to OC in the parks if the states normally allow it otherwise?

Don't worry, I don't plan to. Just would like the info.
 
Hawkflyer

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chris in va wrote:
Forgive me if it's been discussed already.

As the new law takes effect on the 9th, are we then allowed to OC in the parks if the states normally allow it otherwise?

Don't worry, I don't plan to. Just would like the info.
Click to expand...

Well you may want to wait to see the final wording of the regulations after that date. You may also want to give a little time for all the Rangers to get the word. Keep checking here and at VCDL for updates.

Regards
 
Felid`Maximus

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[align=left]The new rule writes:[/align]



[align=left]
(h) Notwithstanding any other provision in this Chapter, a person[/align]



[align=left]may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable[/align]



[align=left]firearms within a national park area in accordance with the laws of the[/align]



[align=left]state in which the national park area, or that portion thereof, is[/align]
located, except as otherwise prohibited by applicable Federal law.
Click to expand...





The document leading up to the ruling would imply that it only applied to concealed carry, however, my english skills would tell me that if that were true one would have to interpret that rule to mean that the firearm must be all three: "Concealed, loaded, and operable" in order to be carried. However, to me the actual wording of it equally appears to allow foran interpretation that wouldallow for concealed firearms, loaded firearms, and operable firearms.


Here is the ruling in the Federal Register: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/E8-29249.htm


 
Hawkflyer

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Felid`Maximus wrote:
...SNIP
Click to expand...
one would have to interpret that rule to mean that the firearm must be all three: "Concealed, loaded, and operable" in order to be carried. However, to me the actual wording of it equally appears to allow foran interpretation that wouldallow for concealed firearms, loaded firearms, and operable firearms.
SNIP...
Click to expand...


...And the interpretation of the thousands of Park rangers would be ....?

I still would suggest that we all just wait until some of the dust settles such that we can see clearly what Will be allowed. Don't forget this is a regulation we are talking about, not a formal piece of legislation where the language is set in stone. There is still some wiggle room on the final language. The January date is the promulgation date, so the language might still be tinkered with between now and then.

If you want to show up at the gate of the local Park at midnight on January 9th feel free. Just be certain you have a copy of the regulation in hand and be prepared to teach a class on your "interpretation" of the language to the ranger staff on duty when you arrive.

Regards
 
T

Tomahawk

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a person




[align=left]may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable[/align]




[align=left]firearms[/align]
Click to expand...
Read that? No carrying of unloaded firearms in NP's, understand! If they must be concealed, that means they must be loaded, too. English.
 
M

murf26

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Hawkflyer wrote:
Felid`Maximus wrote:
...SNIP
Click to expand...
one would have to interpret that rule to mean that the firearm must be all three: "Concealed, loaded, and operable" in order to be carried. However, to me the actual wording of it equally appears to allow foran interpretation that wouldallow for concealed firearms, loaded firearms, and operable firearms.
SNIP...
Click to expand...


...And the interpretation of the thousands of Park rangers would be ....?

I still would suggest that we all just wait until some of the dust settles such that we can see clearly what Will be allowed. Don't forget this is a regulation we are talking about, not a formal piece of legislation where the language is set in stone. There is still some wiggle room on the final language. The January date is the promulgation date, so the language might still be tinkered with between now and then.

If you want to show up at the gate of the local Park at midnight on January 9th feel free. Just be certain you have a copy of the regulation in hand and be prepared to teach a class on your "interpretation" of the language to the ranger staff on duty when you arrive.

Regards
Click to expand...
I work in a national park and our rangers are aware of the ruling. It is good to go on Friday, January 9.
 
Sonora Rebel

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Whoever wrote that seems to be unaware of open carry at all. As tho the 'only' method is concealed.I traverse thru or bordera National park daily (along with many others). We're mostly armed (openly or otherwise)... 'have done so for years. 'Anybody thinks we're gonna take the guns apart everytime we do ain't playin' with a full deck. In some places... one side of the road is 'Park' 'n the other side isn't. The Rangers don't bother with this kind'a nonsense. They live here 'n know how Arizona is. AZ is an open carry State. Permits required for Concealed only. So... IAW the laws of the State... OC is OK 'n CC with a CWP in AZ. That's how I'd 'interpret' it. I wonder if they actually beat the bushes to find people who can write such vague stuff as this?
 
T

Tomahawk

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Sonora Rebel wrote:
Whoever wrote that seems to be unaware of open carry at all. As tho the 'only' method is concealed.I traverse thru or bordera National park daily (along with many others). We're mostly armed (openly or otherwise)... 'have done so for years. 'Anybody thinks we're gonna take the guns apart everytime we do ain't playin' with a full deck. In some places... one side of the road is 'Park' 'n the other side isn't. The Rangers don't bother with this kind'a nonsense. They live here 'n know how Arizona is. AZ is an open carry State. Permits required for Concealed only. So... IAW the laws of the State... OC is OK 'n CC with a CWP in AZ. That's how I'd 'interpret' it. I wonder if they actually beat the bushes to find people who can write such vague stuff as this?
Click to expand...

In other words, you openly violate the law and brag about it on the internet. And you endorse law enforcement that is carried out with a nod and a wink, and believe that that somehow protects you if you get caught illegally carrying by a park ranger. That's not something I recommend to those trying to keep a clean record.
 
Sonora Rebel

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You are wrapped WAY too tight! Let's put it down to regional differences as to what's on paper... and what 'is'. Pretty much the only way in/out of here is thru the Park or bordering the Park. 'Road's been a 'road' since 1910... which pre-dates Arizona AND the Park. You wouldn't want'a live outhere...I can tell that. You don't have the first clue.
 
Sonora Rebel

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Nobody's poachin' javelina or deer... or shootin' at the coyotes. Most of the people who traverse the park area live here. Most are armed or 'have somethin' in the vehicle. 'Been that way since Cochise was a pup. Everybody knows the 'law'... but there's no reason to actively enforce it. The Rangers might have to depend on a citizen to back 'em up some day (or night) this close to the border. It's the way it works.... The gummint wonks in DC can write whatever they want... Reality is a whole 'nuther thing.
 
Grapeshot

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In my reading of this the operable word is "may."

"may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national park area in accordance with the laws of the......"

May possess.
May carry and transport concealed.
Operable = not broken down.

Nothing that I read indicates must possess, must be concealed or must be operable.

If taken individually (they are parallel terms) it is the same as if the word "may" preceded each condition i.e. "may possess, may carry, and may transport concealed...."

Nothing therein requires you to possess. Nothing requires you to carry. Therefore nothing requires you to conceal insofar as you are in accordance with the laws of the particular state. Would seem to me that OC will be legal within National Parks in Pa.and Va.

Just my take on it - we shall see.

Yata hey
 
T

Tomahawk

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Grapeshot wrote:
In my reading of this the operable word is "may."

"may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national park area in accordance with the laws of the......"

May possess.
May carry and transport concealed.
Operable = not broken down.

Nothing that I read indicates must possess, must be concealed or must be operable.

If taken individually (they are parallel terms) it is the same as if the word "may" preceded each condition i.e. "may possess, may carry, and may transport concealed...."

Nothing therein requires you to possess. Nothing requires you to carry. Therefore nothing requires you to conceal insofar as you are in accordance with the laws of the particular state. Would seem to me that OC will be legal within National Parks in Pa.and Va.

Just my take on it - we shall see.

Yata hey
Click to expand...

I agree with your reading of the wording, but I'm not an enforcer or a prosecutor.

Who wants to be the test case? :celebrate
 
Hawkflyer

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Tomahawk wrote:
...SNIP
I agree with your reading of the wording, but I'm not an enforcer or a prosecutor.

Who wants to be the test case? :celebrate
Click to expand...

Come on! Avid hiker!Marine!

You should be at the gate at 12:00:01, S&W .500 Mag in a chest carry, yelling for the ranger to open the gates.:monkey
 
Sonora Rebel

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"May"... Good call. 'Gives ya the 'legal' option. This'llimpact you easterners much more than out here. I suspect the same has been goin' on up north in the 'Big' park areas like Yosemite relative to the locals 'packin'. Some places they're hemmed in by the parks as we are here. I think this 'no gun' stuff all came about from poachers back durin' the Great Depression anyway.
 
Sonora Rebel

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Hawkflyer wrote:
yelling for the ranger to open the gates.:monkey
Click to expand...
Gates? What gates? We don' need no steenkin' gates.We don' got no steenkin' gates!
 
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