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Maryland State Police exposed for spying on numerous activists organizations

Citizen

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Hawkflyer wrote:
SNIP (BGL my a..):banghead:

I was not a part of that conspiracy.

Nobody saw me. Nobody can prove a thing.

The numerous PMs I sent to the participantsin no way contributed to it.
 

Statesman

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Hawkflyer wrote:
Anyone who resists "reasonable" government regulation will always be considered a threat by the part of the government that wrote the regulations. Depending on the nature of the resistance, you will fall somewhere along a continuum between being a protester and a terrorist. In this case people are pressing their rights by carrying deadly weapons, not pencils. So the government considers that sort of thing to be more terrorist than it is protesting.

Keep in mind we are talking about California.
The use of words have been used historically to manipulate people into the worst periods of human history, and it's about to happen here in America.

I'm not sure who gets to interpret what "reasonable" regulation is. From my perspective, the word is heavily abused and is completely arbitrary and subjective.

With OC, no rights are being "pressed", which seems to suggest some type of force, rather, they are being exercised. We can't compare a clearly lawful action against protesting or pressing anything, IMHO.

According to Blacks Law Dictionary, 7th edition, the pre-9/11 definition of terrorism is

Terrorism, n. The use or threat of violence to intimidate or cause panic, esp. as a means of affecting political conduct
With respect to the OC movement, I'm unaware of anyone using violence, or the threat of violence, with intent to cause panic, or to affect political conduct. Likewise, other peaceful political movements in the U.S. are occurring, where we have incorrect labels of "terrorist" being applied to people who are participating in democracy. The label of "protester" is being thrown out by the wayside, because more power to control comes with the label of "terrorist", up to and including indefinite detainment in one of over 600+ existing FEMA prison camps across the U.S. (worst case scenario).

Therefore, I believe those honorable people executing these terrorism watch agencies operations, need to learn how to read the definitions of words that have explicit meaning, and apply some common sense, and stop passively following orders so they can "get paid". They each individually have a duty to enforce laws, not take orders from those abusing their authority. We need patriots who will protect this country from enemies foreign, and domestic.

LEO at the state & federal levels need to take notice, before they find themselves enforcing the will of some two bit American (or U.N.) tyrannical dictator.
 

Statesman

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deepdiver wrote:
So, um, OCDO members present a terrorist threat so indicated by Sacramento thinking it prudent to inform all CA LEO what the state law is on OC and to strongly suggest that they follow said law? So which part brings in the terrorist part, us exercising our constitutionally protected rights or forcing LE to follow the state laws?
Neither, I believe. The mere fact that the "incident" with CA_Libertarian was reviewed by their Terrorism Threat Assessment Center, gives the suggestion that it has something to do with terrorist activity with the interoffice readers, who just happen to be LEO.

For doing something that is perfectly legal, I have yet to hear of Sacremento PD's determination on whether or not we're a bunch of turban wearing domestic terrorists yet. I would certainly like to know.

The power of suggestion is undeniably strong, once understood.
 

Citizen

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Hawkflyer wrote:
SNIP Depending on the nature of the resistance, you will fall somewhere along a continuum between being a protester and a terrorist.
Hmmmmm.

1.continuous seamless series:a link between two things, or a continuous series of things, that blend into each other so gradually and seamlessly that it is impossible to say where one becomes the next.

1. A continuous extent, succession, or whole, no part of which can be distinguished from neighboring parts except by arbitrary division.


Hmmmmm. Not sure I like that word applied to OCers with protester and terrorist at each end.

:)
 

Hawkflyer

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Citizen wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
SNIP Depending on the nature of the resistance, you will fall somewhere along a continuum between being a protester and a terrorist.
Hmmmmm.

1.continuous seamless series:a link between two things, or a continuous series of things, that blend into each other so gradually and seamlessly that it is impossible to say where one becomes the next.

1. A continuous extent, succession, or whole, no part of which can be distinguished from neighboring parts except by arbitrary division.


Hmmmmm. Not sure I like that word applied to OCers with protester and terrorist at each end.

:)

I don't like it either, but the question was raised as to how people could possibly look at the OC movement as a terrorist threat, and that is part of how.

With few exceptions, nobody here on this forum believes that this movement is anything but a legitimate exercise of a number of rights, in an effort to repopularize OC. To do that people go about their business openly armed. When confronted they stand their ground (non-violent protest) in the tradition of the civil rights movement of the 1950's and 1960's. But that does not mean that outsiders do not view everything discussed here as very radical, and akin to terrorism. This was also the case with the civil rights movement, at the time the events took place.

SO there is in fact a continuum. We might quibble over the place it starts or ends, but there is no quibbling over the fact that different people see this movement as located at different points along the continuum.
 

Citizen

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Hawkflyer wrote:
Citizen wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
SNIP continuum
Not sure I like that word applied to OCers with protester and terrorist at each end.
With few exceptions, nobody here on this forum believes that this movement is anything but a legitimate exercise of a number of rights, in an effort to repopularize OC. To do that people go about their business openly armed. When confronted they stand their ground (non-violent protest) in the tradition of the civil rights movement of the 1950's and 1960's. But that does not mean that outsiders do not view everything discussed here as very radical, and akin to terrorism. This was also the case with the civil rights movement, at the time the events took place.

SO there is in fact a continuum. We might quibble over the place it starts or ends, but there is no quibbling over the fact that different people see this movement as located at different points along the continuum.
Well, given that the government people who hold that view don't seem to bother to apply the constitution anyway, I guess I'm not surprised.
 

Hawkflyer

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Citizen wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
Citizen wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
SNIP continuum
Not sure I like that word applied to OCers with protester and terrorist at each end.
With few exceptions, nobody here on this forum believes that this movement is anything but a legitimate exercise of a number of rights, in an effort to repopularize OC. To do that people go about their business openly armed. When confronted they stand their ground (non-violent protest) in the tradition of the civil rights movement of the 1950's and 1960's. But that does not mean that outsiders do not view everything discussed here as very radical, and akin to terrorism. This was also the case with the civil rights movement, at the time the events took place.

SO there is in fact a continuum. We might quibble over the place it starts or ends, but there is no quibbling over the fact that different people see this movement as located at different points along the continuum.
Well, given that the government people who hold that view don't seem to bother to apply the constitution anyway, I guess I'm not surprised.
Yea but it does not mean that they are not meeting with a lot of internal resistance from a few radicals among their ranks. :lol:
 

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Hawkflyer wrote:
Yea but it does not mean that they are not meeting with a lot of internal resistance from a few radicals among their ranks. :lol:

How many radicals do you think are in that line of work? How effective can they be at stanching the flow of evil and nonsense?
 

Hawkflyer

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Tomahawk wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
Yea but it does not mean that they are not meeting with a lot of internal resistance from a few radicals among their ranks. :lol:

How many radicals do you think are in that line of work? How effective can they be at stanching the flow of evil and nonsense?
More effective than if there are none. No single person can do it all, but a single person can change what flows through his area of influence. Would you prefer they quit and work from the outside?
 

Citizen

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Hawkflyer wrote:
More effective than if there are none. No single person can do it all, but a single person can change what flows through his area of influence. Would you prefer they quit and work from the outside?
We'll take what we can get.
 

Tomahawk

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Hawkflyer wrote:
Tomahawk wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
Yea but it does not mean that they are not meeting with a lot of internal resistance from a few radicals among their ranks. :lol:

How many radicals do you think are in that line of work? How effective can they be at stanching the flow of evil and nonsense?
More effective than if there are none. No single person can do it all, but a single person can change what flows through his area of influence. Would you prefer they quit and work from the outside?

Well, you have to wonder how much one must compromise himself in order to stay in that line of work.

I have experienced it myself, as a government contractor, I've asked myself if the project I was working on at the time was consistent with my beliefs, and when you're getting paid decent money and have a steady job you find out how easy it is to rationalize stuff.

I also hate homeowners' associations, and once wound up sitting on the board. The idea that I could minimize the impact of the HOA on people's lives and liberty was false. Participating in a bad system, even with good intentions, validates that system. When I got voted out I was glad to walk away.
 

JBURGII

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I am still researching, I found that info with just a few clicks in a search engine.. Now I am curious what links to other domestic terror groups I might be affiliated with!!

I do listen to AM conservative talk radio... oh no..

I have hunted.. and eaten wild game.. sigh, I am a trained assassin and apparently a flesh eater.. quick call PETA!

I am so looking forward to venison.. and OCing while hunting and fishing..

J, lvl 4 recovering Caloholic

"All hail J! All hail J!"
 

Hawkflyer

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Tomahawk wrote:
...SNIP
Well, you have to wonder how much one must compromise himself in order to stay in that line of work.

I have experienced it myself, as a government contractor, I've asked myself if the project I was working on at the time was consistent with my beliefs, and when you're getting paid decent money and have a steady job you find out how easy it is to rationalize stuff.

I also hate homeowners' associations, and once wound up sitting on the board. The idea that I could minimize the impact of the HOA on people's lives and liberty was false. Participating in a bad system, even with good intentions, validates that system. When I got voted out I was glad to walk away.

I agree that can be a problem if a person does not position themselves properly. I have had to stand up to prosecutors that wanted a specific result that was not supported by the evidence many times. I have also had to dig deeper to find ALL of the facts and in some cases this becomes exculpatory. People are not happy about that sort of thing, but if you are in the right place not only can you ferret out corruption on the system, but you can actually prosecute it.

Taking action against the corruption is where life gets interesting. The key to doing this stuff is that you have to be squeaky clear yourself or you can get whacked, by people in power. but if you stay clean and ethical, you can fight and you can make a difference, and not compromise your own ethical values. If forced to do so I would quit before I would break my ethical code.

"This above all else, Tothine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man" (William Shakespeare)
 

Statesman

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Hawkflyer wrote:
Yea but it does not mean that they are not meeting with a lot of internal resistance from a few radicals among their ranks. :lol:
In light of the legal context of OC, I'm not sure how the internal resistance can be viewed as radical. Only in a country that has been led astray by decades of radical leftist liberal agendas, can following the U.S. and State (KY) constitutions, or other existing laws, be considered radical.
 

Statesman

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sccrref wrote:
The post-9/11 definition of terrorism is

Terrorism, n. The disagreement with anything that big brother tells you is good for you.
You are referring to dissidents. And I believe that is accurate, IMHO.

From this site, with regard to the 9/11 un-Patriotic Act, that brands dissidents as terrorists.

[size="-1"]In response to 911, the governments of the western democracies, also known as the "free world" have written their own versions of ANTI-TERRORISM bills. They are all very long bills and they all sound very similar in effect - abandonment of the rule of law and the cessation of civil liberties. They are in various stages of acceptance in their respective houses of parliament and congress and are passing more or less unanimously with the majority of politicians admitting they haven't read the bill prior to giving approval.[/size]
[size="-1"] [/size][size="-1"]Another common feature of the ANTI-TERRORISM bills is that none of them define the word "terrorist". They all leave that WIDE OPEN for the obvious reason that they want to be able to substitute the word "terrorist" with anything or anyone according to their wont or whim.[/size]
[size="-1"]"Terrorism" has become (borrowing from Orwell)..."the essential crime that contains all others in itself".[/size]
[size="-1"]To completely get straight in your mind what they've done, substitute the word "terrorist" with "dissident" every time you read or hear it. [The definition of "dissident" is: a person who disagrees; thinks differently; expresses a different opinion from others.][/size]
[size="-1"] [/size][size="-1"]And in trying to understand what is meant by the oft repeated statement:[/size]
[align=center][size="-1"]"You're either WITH us or you're AGAINST us",[/size]
[/align] [size="-1"]imagine it to mean:[/size]
[align=center][size="-1"]You're either WITH us OR you're a terrorist.[/size]
[/align] [size="-1"]or as I heard it expressed regarding a country that balked at handing over citizens under indictment by a foreign nation:[/size]
[size="-1"] [/size]
[size="-1"]"If you don't meet our demands, YOU WILL BE CONSIDERED AN ENTITY THAT SUPPORTS TERRORISM."
[/size]
 

Hawkflyer

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Statesman wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
Yea but it does not mean that they are not meeting with a lot of internal resistance from a few radicals among their ranks. :lol:
In light of the legal context of OC, I'm not sure how the internal resistance can be viewed as radical. Only in a country that has been led astray by decades of radical leftist liberal agendas, can following the U.S. and State (KY) constitutions, or other existing laws, be considered radical.

Can I assume you knew you were answering, in the second sentence, the question raised by the first sentence?:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Life is not easy when you are small.
 

Citizen

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Hawkflyer wrote:
Can I assume you knew you were answering, in the second sentence, the question raised by the first sentence?:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
You know, all that head-pounding is going to flatten your forehead and increase wind-resistance. :)
 

Statesman

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Hawkflyer wrote:
Statesman wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
Yea but it does not mean that they are not meeting with a lot of internal resistance from a few radicals among their ranks. :lol:
In light of the legal context of OC, I'm not sure how the internal resistance can be viewed as radical. Only in a country that has been led astray by decades of radical leftist liberal agendas, can following the U.S. and State (KY) constitutions, or other existing laws, be considered radical.

Can I assume you knew you were answering, in the second sentence, the question raised by the first sentence?:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Life is not easy when you are small.
That is correct. I'm pointing out the flaws I perceive in leftist logic, which is a contradiction in itself. You have to do this for many liberals and anti-gunners, since they often lack critical thinking skills.
 

Hawkflyer

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Citizen wrote:

You know, all that head-pounding is going to flatten your forehead and increase wind-resistance. :)

It has been a really , really , really, bad week requiring a lot of head banging! But I am not very streamlined to begin with.:lol:

Someone told me that I should get in shape. Silly me I thought ROUND was a shape.:cry:
 
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