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Thread: MI Safety Inspection is History Starting Today!

  1. #1
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Good riddance... now let's see what else we can eliminate.:celebrate
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Good riddance... now let's see what else we can eliminate.
    Sorry to disagree with you Dr.Todd, but this has only eliminated another one of our rights. We have went from a "masked" registration, called a safety inspection, to a mandatory "REGISTRATION". Like I had posted before on this subject, they accomplished this by making it easier to "register" your gun by mail from your living room. Given our lazy human nature they accomplished what they were not able to do for years. This is by no means a win in any fashion, merely a win of convenience. As for what else we can eliminate, wait and see, there is much more in the works.


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    I definitely agree with the good riddance sentiment. I purchased my first pistol last year, and was incredulous when I saw the so-called inspection. I am always against bad law.

    Unfortunately, it seems to be a precondition of holding office that lawmaker's make bad laws worse. The first thing I noticed when the inspection was repealed was that a 3-part form was replaced with a 4-part form. That was definitely a bad sign.

    Our state addressed its basically illegal registration scheme by legalizing it! At times like these with our state budgetary woes, I would like to say that I was surprised that they didn't save some expenses by just ditching the process altogether. I was not surprised because I am too familiar with the machinations of bureaucracies.

    Bah!!!

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Warchild,

    I hate to disagree, but, besides not having to bring the pistol in for inspection, I see the change as important because the powers that be can't hide behind a supposed "safety inspection", rather it is upfront in what it always was: pistol registration. "Safety" had nothing to do with it.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Dr. Todd: In a way you support my argument. It's ok with you now because it is no longer "hidden" as a safety inspection and no more needless trips to the PD for inspections. They have merely made something illegal....legal.... and more availability for tracking and control of our rights to own a handgun. If you are satisfied with it being called what it is, that's your right and I support your right to think so, but I strongly feel you are looking at it in the wrong way. See it for what it is, not what they want you to believe it is.

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    let's call it what it is, bull. I am happy that they are not being "honest" about it. however, I think that registration serves no purpose other than as a precursor to confiscation. I have yet to see one study or statistic which shows that registration solves or prevents crime, its only purpose is to make the lives of law-abiding citizens more difficult. all this bill did is save a trip to the PD, and increase the paperwork load of the MSP, costing US more money.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Warchild,

    Yes, I DO think that registration is unnecessary, attempts to control activities that really aren't any business of the authorities, and can lead to confiscation, so it does seem we do agree there. Yes, I am very disappointed that the law that was passed is VERY weakened and has little semblance to what was originally proposed. YES, I strongly oppose registration of any sort. But...,

    Perhaps I missed something... where is it written that registration is "illegal"? Is this your opinion or is it listed somewhere? (US Constitution, Federal Code, or Michigan Criminal Law)

    I don't mean to be confrontational and understand I am dealing with strong-felt beliefs, but stating that something is "illegal" needs to be supported by citing from where this information comes. Your opinion is valuable, but unless I know it is your opinion or conversely, the opinion of some other source, I would like to know which it is.

    Also, I think you missed my point in my post so let me put it another way. We had registration before and we have it now; there has been a change in name and a very minor procedural issue. I think you may agree.

    You have said: "See it for what it is, not what they want you to believe it is. " Please tell me how calling it "registration" is worse than calling it a "safety inspection" and, by using the terminology of "safety inspection", have a large number of citizens believe that the "all-knowing and wonderful" authorities are really just helping protect us "poor" and "uneducated" handgun owners from "dangerous" or "damaged" firearms. Or, better yet, that the Basic Pistol Safety Questionnaire (for those w/out CPL and still part of law) is a powerful instrument designed to determine who doesn't have the ability to properly possess their pistol.

    In all of the pistols that were safety inspected, how many failed? What percentage of individuals fail the Basic Pistol Safety Questionnaire the first time? The second time? Pointless "hoops" that masquerade as valuable forensic tools, and are actively promoted as such by people who (IMHO) should know better, can NEVER be tolerated.

    If you believe that I am being facetious, within the last 10 years I have not had less than 6 different PO's tell me that the safety inspections are to "make sure my firearm is safe", and that "we don't have pistol registration in MI."

    (Start-Humerous digression)
    This even from one clerk who, upon seeing my "pengun" I purchased from Stinger Mfg, said "what the #$%@ is this" looked for the serial number for approx. 10 minutes, asked an officer to help her and was told "What, that's a gun?" and proceeded to look down the barrel, wondered aloud if it was legal, and who finally asked me to come around the Plexiglas and fill out my own serial number and show both of them how it worked. See here for info: http://pengun.com/
    (End- Humerous Digression)

    So you see, I prefer them to call it what it is (registration), stop this "safety Inspection" BS.

    I am also hopeful that when people, especially those who don't own handguns and therefore have no first hand experience, realize that Michigan does register handguns and may just as easily decide to register long guns, bows, pocket knives, scissors, sharpened pencils, etc. (OK going a little too far, I know...) then we may be able to get public sentiment on our side. IMHO, a "safety inspection" seems much easier to justify with the general population than saying that Michigan demands every handgun purchased in the state to be registered and cross-referenced with the name of the owner, serial number, and description of the pistol.

    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Dr Todd: Ok, we are both in agreement, just viewed from different aspects. I don't consider a good discussion of views as confrontational. I will have to research (which means call Venator) the legal aspect of gun registration. I don't recall for sure, so I may be wrong....wouldn't be the first time. I do agree with the perception of the safety inspection you mentioned. The premise of finding "un-safe" guns. I have
    bought/registered/sold hundreds of handguns in Mi. over the last 30+ years and NONE have been "safety inspected". As you pointed out, most "inspectors" don't even know how to operate/inspect the gun they are looking at to begin with. The only way this would have even made sense, is if from day one the requirement was for the gun to be taken to a licensed gunsmith for inspection/certification to be taken to the PD with the gun for "registration". I look forward to meeting you sometime, I think we could have some good conversation.

    BTW: Venator....get to work and cover the old man's A$$.....was it you that told me that "registrations" were un-constitutional? We should cover this topic on our next show in regards to the new "registration" that took effect.

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    I think I would have termed the former system as "extra-legal." This is the term I save for those little extra hassles which people in government add to our already burdensome laws.

    As a homeschooling dad, I am very familiar with such efforts. Our Homeschool Legal Defense Association regularly updates its members on the interactions it has with government bureaucrats on behalf of its members. They are frequently used to tell government officials that the statutes do not require certain efforts they ask of homeschooling families. Too bad gun owners do not have something similar to the HSLDA.

    "Extra-legal," I call it. Its not legally required nor legally prohibited. Retaining so-called "safety inspection" records without calling it a registration is summarily an extra-legal registration system.

    I agree that it is important that we remember what "legal," "illegal," and (if we really want to draw it out) "extra-legal" means...but it is sooooo tedious! I guess that it sometimes the price of liberty.

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    DrTodd wrote:
    ...
    This even from one clerk who, upon seeing my "pengun" I purchased from Stinger Mfg, said "what the #$%@ is this" looked for the serial number for approx. 10 minutes, asked an officer to help her and was told "What, that's a gun?" and proceeded to look down the barrel, wondered aloud if it was legal, and who finally asked me to come around the Plexiglas and fill out my own serial number and show both of them how it worked. See here for info: http://pengun.com/
    ...
    Since we look at the laws from every angle at OCDO, I can't help but wonder about how they would apply to a pengun. Open carry, concealed carry, brandishing, etc. would probably give any judge the fits if these concepts were applied to the pengun in court.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    I found this article today. Even though it is an opinion piece and I can't verify his facts regarding the history of the "safety inspection", I do agree with point of view.

    http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/a...3/1014/OPINION
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Well I am sorry, I was wrong. The safety inspection was not illegal as I cited. I hate giving wrong info. My thanks to DrTodd for challenging me on it. It helps to prevent spreading of "mis-information".
    We will be fully covering the requirements of the new "registration" law that just took effect.
    Jerry

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Sorry if I seemed a bit agitated, but I get that way sometimes; it really wasn't anything personal. I do perhaps like to question everything, perhaps my beliefs more than anybody's. I used to believe that regular citizen's couldn't openly carry firearms, either. Hey, that's what I was always told... see where a good "where is it written" or "who said" comes in handy?
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  14. #14
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    No problem, I didn't take it personal. This isn't the first time my keyboard has got me in trouble. That's why I have come to depend on the members to keep me in line. It has become a strong learning venue for me also. I look forward to meeting you one of these days.
    Jerry

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    The 4 part registration in Michigan is on the state level. However, this is just semantics. The moment you buy the pistol from the FFL, they have the Make, Model, SN, etc and your name on a piece of paper held for 20 years. The registration really began then, and it included rifles and shotguns.

    Registration is no way to solve crime nor is it a way to deter crime. Perhaps it is one of the ways they are trying to deal with "straw purchases" where someone buys a pistol but are actually buying it for someone else, that cannot or is unwilling to buy it on their own for reasons.

    Michigan gun laws should be more like Alaska and Vermont, of that I totally agree. But, even there, there is always the FFL information that is required and gathered before the release of the firearm. Back in Nebraska, we could sell firearms over the radio on the swap shop, and sell them to someone who was interested in our gun. I am not sure what kind of security breech that would present, since there were no paperwork/background checks performed on a private sale. I would think criminal would be a bit worried about such a sale from someone they did not know since it might be a "sting" operation to catch a criminal. You never saw anyone buying marijuana from a total stranger in those parts either for the very same reason (Yes, I was a Deputy).

    The next step, my opinion, would be to do away with the purchase permit issued by the local law enforcement, and simply have the 4 part paper that when one buys a pistol that the info is sent off to the MSP as it is "now", and let it go at that. It is kind of moot to go to the Sheriff Office and ask for a Pistol Purchase Permit (with no CPL) take the simple test and then you either buy a pistol in 10 days or throw away the purchase permit. Now that makes no sense at all. Simply amend the new law to eliminate the purchase permit requirement, and have the purchaser and the FFL dealer send in their copies so that they cross match and all is well.

    Other venues would be to pass legislation that deem the registration of pistols or any other firearms on a state level is in violation of personal information act and all record that are being held will be destroyed.

    For the Citizens of the U.S. to make and maintain that they are not at the whim of tyrannical government that is poised to seize their arms, against the Second Amendment, then registration and ownership records of firearms need to be made illegal on a national level and all previous records destroyed.

    Yes?



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    im Mad my dad got some pistols and im actulay gunna by one off of him now but the friggen lady that was messing with the gun at the "inspection" had SO much prefume on it smells like she literaly dumped an entire bottle on meh gun QQ.. i dont like my guns smelling like grama ... can anyone tell me a good way to clean the stinky perfume off the first day i had it in my room playing with it *twirls around pretending to be a quick draw yah know* i actualy had to go to the bath room and hold my head over the toilint i feard i had to puke! it was thaat bad!.. its a lot better now but i can still smell it! God im going emo... =(


    PS: but on a side note ^^ if you see a 21 or so year old kid that smells like Grama.. you know im packin! ^^ =P

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    Kenshinx2 wrote:
    im Mad my dad got some pistols and im actulay gunna by one off of him now but the friggen lady that was messing with the gun at the "inspection" had SO much prefume on it smells like she literaly dumped an entire bottle on meh gun QQ.. i dont like my guns smelling like grama ... can anyone tell me a good way to clean the stinky perfume off the first day i had it in my room playing with it *twirls around pretending to be a quick draw yah know* i actualy had to go to the bath room and hold my head over the toilint i feard i had to puke! it was thaat bad!.. its a lot better now but i can still smell it! God im going emo... =(


    PS: but on a side note ^^ if you see a 21 or so year old kid that smells like Grama.. you know im packin! ^^ =P
    Have you cleaned it with an gun cleaning solvent? That should cut through the oils in the perfume. Otherwise hang it on the clothesline for a few days
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    WD-40.......aaahhhh, I love the smell of WD-40 in the morning. :P

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    Kenshinx2, Please tell us that you don't normally play (twirl) with your guns.springerdave.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Hey now....how else can I beat Clint to the draw. I used to practice quick draw, of course the gun was unloaded and made sure I stayed on the carpet. In fact I can still do the "Mexican switch" pretty good. It does impress the grandkids.

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    springerdave wrote:
    Kenshinx2, Please tell us that you don't normally play (twirl) with your guns.springerdave.
    Oh come on... Just about everyone I know has done that with their first revolver...

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    Thank you, springerdave. We all need to demonstrate responsibility when we post on this forum. We have all been young. We have all made mistakes. Unfortunately, our mistakes can provide support for the opponents of our 2A rights.

    There are things many people do in private, Kenshinx2. These things are often misunderstood when they are shared on a forum which is available for public viewing.

    Michigan is entering a time where our 2A rights will be increasingly challenged. At the same time, we still have an opportunity to remove laws which infringe our 2A rights. In order to accomplish this, we must not give our opponents anything they can use against us.

    We have to continually demonstrate the highest level of responsiblity to those around us - including those on public forums. If we don't, all the antis have to do is to lead our lawmakers to the forums on which we openly share our opinions and experiences.

    If they find that our discussions demonstrate that we are irrational, irresponsible, or perhaps even dangerous, the antis win their fight without having to even enter the arena. Please carefully consider the information you post here. Please also consider the actions you take at home and on the street. Please ensure that your actions do not negatively affect your future rights, or those of your father, or those of other gun owners.

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    No, thank you, Hcidem. Very well put . I am taking notes on how to be tactful and diplomatic. I had the same job for the last 26 years. During that time I had 5 bosses.
    All at one time or another expressed to me their view of my lack of tact. You would have pleased them.springerdave.

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    ...problem is that tact is not always as readable as a direct comment.

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    Don't worry about the smell, it will go away. Be safe.





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