• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

I got BUSTED!

H

Hcidem

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
316
Location
RTM Rockford, Michigan, USA
imported post

I strongly concur with FogRider. Your user name suggests you live in California where laws and procedure are sometimes exotically different from those elsewhere.

In any event, the details you have already posted indicate you need a good lawyer. Good luck with this.
 
IanB

IanB

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
1,896
Location
Northern VA
imported post

thecalifornian wrote:
He saw the gun on the table and told us to get down and arrested me for unlawfully carrying a loaded firearm within city limits.
Click to expand...
Sounds to me that the cop made a bad arrest. You weren't carrying it, holding or brandishing it, and you're on private property. The police had no probable cause to be there so the search is fruit of the poisonous tree. I am not a lawyer.
 
Hawkflyer

Hawkflyer

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
3,309
Location
Prince William County, Virginia, USA
imported post

thecalifornian wrote:
...SNIP
Does anyone have any good suggestions for fighting this charge? Or know anyone that would be good to help me out?
Click to expand...
Get a lawyer YESTERDAY, and do not speak to the police or post more details here without consulting the lawyer first.
 
F

FogRider

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
1,412
Location
Centennial, Colorado, USA
imported post

nakedshoplifter wrote:
Sounds to me that the cop made a bad arrest. You weren't carrying it, holding or brandishing it, and you're on private property. The police had no probable cause to be there so the search is fruit of the poisonous tree. I am not a lawyer.
Click to expand...
It does sound pretty bogus (the charge that is), but that's for the courts to decide, not us. thecalifornian, I'd really like to hear how this turns out, but only after you cet out of court.

To many people seem to forget that whole "anything you say can and will be held against you" extends to the internet.
 
Hawkflyer

Hawkflyer

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
3,309
Location
Prince William County, Virginia, USA
imported post

FogRider wrote:
nakedshoplifter wrote:
Sounds to me that the cop made a bad arrest. You weren't carrying it, holding or brandishing it, and you're on private property. The police had no probable cause to be there so the search is fruit of the poisonous tree. I am not a lawyer.
Click to expand...
It does sound pretty bogus (the charge that is), but that's for the courts to decide, not us. thecalifornian, I'd really like to hear how this turns out, but only after you cet out of court.

To many people seem to forget that whole "anything you say can and will be held against you" extends to the internet.
Click to expand...
+1000

I do not want to discourage you from posting here on OTHER subjects, and you are certainly welcome here. But while I am very interested to hear more on this situation, PLEASE FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, don't say any more until after you clear this up. It could really damage your case.
 
C

ChickenFarmer

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
38
Location
, California, USA
imported post

IANAL!!!

There is no such law as carrying within city limits.

There is however loaded. Either way it is a misdemeanor and will cost about $5K retainer for a decent lawyer.

Remember the following.

12031 that defines loaded:

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.
Click to expand...
Code: 
(h) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person engaged in any lawful business, including a nonprofit organization, or any
officer, employee, or agent authorized by that person for lawful
purposes connected with that business, from having a loaded firearm
within the person's place of business, or any person in lawful
possession of private property from having a loaded firearm on that
property.

(l) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from having a loaded weapon, if it is otherwise lawful, at his or her place of residence, including any temporary residence or campsite.

I don't know the circumstances surrounding your case, but it does also state clearly that 12031 which is the PC loaded that you basically have to be in a prohibited area. As you can see above your home, business or private property you are allowed to have loaded. HOWEVER, I need to research the case law, but there is case law however to say that even if it is private property it can still be considered a public place and therefore not exempt.

I disagree with the interpretation as the PC clearly differentiates between a public place and private property, and that might be a good case for a good lawyer.

I wish you luck in your endeavors.
 
W

WCrawford

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
592
Location
Nashville, Tennessee, United States
imported post

You can, and in my opinion should, post the details of where and when the hearings will be held.

This will give any of us in your area the opportunity to lend you some moral support in person.
 
M

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

nakedshoplifter wrote:
thecalifornian wrote:
He saw the gun on the table and told us to get down and arrested me for unlawfully carrying a loaded firearm within city limits.
Click to expand...
Sounds to me that the cop made a bad arrest. You weren't carrying it, holding or brandishing it, and you're on private property. The police had no probable cause to be there so the search is fruit of the poisonous tree. I am not a lawyer.
Click to expand...
Sounds like an easy case - unless your private property is a "public place.'
 
C

ChickenFarmer

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
38
Location
, California, USA
imported post

Mike wrote:
nakedshoplifter wrote:
thecalifornian wrote:
He saw the gun on the table and told us to get down and arrested me for unlawfully carrying a loaded firearm within city limits.
Click to expand...
Sounds to me that the cop made a bad arrest. You weren't carrying it, holding or brandishing it, and you're on private property. The police had no probable cause to be there so the search is fruit of the poisonous tree. I am not a lawyer.
Click to expand...
Sounds like an easy case - unless your private property is a "public place.'
Click to expand...
Actually, some of us disagree with that interpretation.

I have a thread about it in California section...but in essence, since the PC spells out that it is illegal to have it loaded in a public place and provides an exemption for private property owned by the person that they would be exempt.

So far no one has supported with case law what defines private place, so this argument may change once someone can produce that. I don't know how to look up case law, or else I would myself. It seems to me that the intent was to mean any public place OTHER than private property, otherwise it would have been defined differently.
 
M

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

ChickenFarmer wrote:
in essence, since the PC spells out that it is illegal to have it loaded in a public place and provides an exemption for private property owned by the person that they would be exempt.

So far no one has supported with case law what defines private place
Click to expand...
The issue is "public place" - was this real property a public place or not?
 
G

gravedigger

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
221
Location
Franklin, Kentucky, USA
imported post

In commiefornia, the laws here are mind boggling. If your private property is not surrounded by a tall fence with a locked gate and razorwire around the top such that a passerby could "wander" onto your property without having to circumvent a fence or a wall or other barrier that a reasonable and prudent person would view as being placed there to prevent the public from accessing it, that area could be deemed a "public place" in that there is nothing to prevent the public from casually accessing it. I am not a lawyer, and I don't know the law on this, but I suspect that the powers that be in THIS republik will deem that area a "public place." If a kid on a bicycle could use it as a shortcut, then it probably wouldn't be deemed "private" place, since a kid on a bicycle cannot accidentally take a shortcut through your bedroom or bathroom, which WOULD be deemed "private place." I'm just guessing here, but I don't think I'm far off.
 
C

CA_Libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
2,585
Location
Stanislaus County, California, USA
imported post

Mike wrote:
ChickenFarmer wrote:
in essence, since the PC spells out that it is illegal to have it loaded in a public place and provides an exemption for private property owned by the person that they would be exempt.

So far no one has supported with case law what defines private place
Click to expand...
The issue is "public place" - was this real property a public place or not?
Click to expand...
In California v. Overturf, the Court of Appeals determined that 12031 (a) makes it illegal to possess and carry a firearm. The exemptions in (h) and (l) were found to exempt only possession.

I didn't see the OP, but I get the impression the firearm was not being carried. So, even with the terrible case law in Overturf, the case is an easy win.
 
C

ChickenFarmer

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
38
Location
, California, USA
imported post

So then with the law of California, if the night prior some police came and knocked down my door so that is was no longer there...

And the following day a stranger saw that there was no door entered my home it could be considered a public place because there was nothing preventing the public from gaining access....

Although it doesn't make it right it sounds like it would be legal...
 
C

chad pf-9

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
50
Location
Laplace, Louisiana, USA
imported post

ChickenFarmer wrote:
So then with the law of California, if the night prior some police came and knocked down my door so that is was no longer there...

And the following day a stranger saw that there was no door entered my home it could be considered a public place because there was nothing preventing the public from gaining access....

Although it doesn't make it right it sounds like it would be legal...
Click to expand...
If the above is true,then yall have some crappy laws out there in Cal.I thought the laws down here in the New Orleans area were bad.............
 
C

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

ChickenFarmer wrote:
So then with the law of California, if the night prior some police came and knocked down my door so that is was no longer there...

And the following day a stranger saw that there was no door entered my home it could be considered a public place because there was nothing preventing the public from gaining access....
Click to expand...

Well there is that whole thing about police not being able to create their own exingencies.

:)
 
C

ChickenFarmer

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
38
Location
, California, USA
imported post

Somehow I don't feel safer...Haha....

I think we need to petition the mods here to include more emoticons.... Although the ones here are cool, sometimes we need a

moz-screenshot.jpg
moz-screenshot-1.jpg
hide.gif
or a
willy_nilly.gif
or even a
rofl.gif


Citizen wrote:
ChickenFarmer wrote:
So then with the law of California, if the night prior some police came and knocked down my door so that is was no longer there...

And the following day a stranger saw that there was no door entered my home it could be considered a public place because there was nothing preventing the public from gaining access....
Click to expand...

Well there is that whole thing about police not being able to create their own exingencies.

:)
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top