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Thread: In Defense of Others. Customer Shoots BG Video.

  1. #1
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    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=376_1231397528

    I'd like everyone to take notice of his emotions as the adrenaline starts towear off. What he did was LEGAL, yet he still starts to break down b/c IMO he's actually not sure if what he did was right. Also maybe b/c he probably has NEVER shot at someone or killed someone. Eitherway it's a humbling video.
    CCTV(with audio),January 05/08:OCOEE, Fla. New surveillance video(Not the greatest) was released on Wednesday(Jan 07/08) that shows the dramatic lead-up to an accused robber being shot in Ocoee.

    The video shows a man, while on a cell phone with 911, shooting and killing the suspect.

    The shooting occurred just before midnight on Monday. The surveillance video shows a man, identified by police as Freddie Carson, 40, entering the Kangaroo gas station on Franklin Street in Ocoee, getting behind the counter and trying to rob the clerk.

    Police said Carson tried to beat the clerk with a bottle. A customer, only identified as Chris, heard screaming from outside and rushed back into the store.

    On the tape, Chris shot Carson and is heard telling a 911 dispatcher that he just shot someone.

    "Yes you need paramedics. A man just broke in. I shot him. I have a gun," Chris told the dispatcher. "He was beating her over the counter and I shot him. I came in and I shot him. You need paramedics. Oh my God, I can’t believe I just shot somebody."

    Chris said he was just trying to help his friend.

    Authorities are still looking for two other men they believe were involved in the robbery.


    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=376_1231397528

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    Wow.

    I hope she's ok. I think the video clearly shows the shooter is in the right. Whether the local law agrees is a completely different situation. (In Michigan, he'd be just fine).

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    He did what needed doin'.Obviously distraught emotionally afterward... but some people react that way. (Not everybody reacts the same...) Good job! He's got nuthin' to be ashamed of.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Intense to see it really happening. We can talk about it, practice for it, prepare ourselves for it mentally and physically, but I don't think any of that prepares you for when it really happens and I don't think any of us can know for sure how we will react afterwards the first time it happens.

    My wife noted (I had forgotten) that this is the same city in which the 91 year old man used a handgun to defend himself and his wife a few days ago during a home invasion.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum60/20265.html

    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    I can understand the shooters reaction. Many people expect they will never have to take action let alone someones life. He is in the right and should never for a second hang is head in shame or regret.





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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    He did what needed doin'.Obviously distraught emotionally afterward... but some people react that way. (Not everybody reacts the same...) Good job! He's got nuthin' to be ashamed of.
    Yes...I think the adrenalin dump was to much....I wonder if at the end the guy saw him on the ground...off camera.....just goes to show that you don't know what you are going to say when this kind of thing happens....watch it again....that car in the pic takes off kind of fast doesn't it.

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    IMO the customer responded appropriately to defend the cashier. During some range sessions I intentionally induce an adrenaline spike to simulate the stress of use of deadly force. It's unpleasant...shaky hands, tunnel vision, headache, but a useful training technique none the less.

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    cccook wrote:
    IMO the customer responded appropriately to defend the cashier. During some range sessions I intentionally induce an adrenaline spike to simulate the stress of use of deadly force. It's unpleasant...shaky hands, tunnel vision, headache, but a useful training technique none the less.
    How do you do that?

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    Evil Ernie wrote:
    cccook wrote:
    I intentionally induce an adrenaline spike to simulate the stress of use of deadly force.
    How do you do that?


    I find that my thoughts turn very easily to an imagined scenario or mindset of fight or flight at the range. Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that I have an adrenaline switch. It actually requires some effort on my partto prevent the adrenaline from flowing. But if I allow my emotions to enter that fight or flight mindset the go juice pours on. Perhaps my imagination is a little vivid. It's just part of being too sensitive I think.

    When shooting a rifle or some other "fun" activity, the bump does not occur. Only when practicing for defense do I experience the spike.

    What I don't try to simulate is the horror that the shooter in the video is experiencing upon the realization that he has shot someone. At least, not at the range.


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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    In my defensive handgun classes we use squirt guns and simulate defensive situations, usually home invasion and carjacking. I'll have to add this one to the program.

    It is amazing how much realistic stress and adrenalin flow is generated by these exercises.

    It is especially valuable to novices who "know" they need to learn to shoot and believe they should be able to defend themselves and their children, but have grave doubts about whether or not they could actually shoot someone. When we are all soaking wet from the squirt guns, they tend to be more comfortable with the idea and willing to continue training.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    I have seen a few hundred of these videos where the action went the other way because there was no one there to help the good guy.

    WhileI do not mean to sound cold blooded, it is actually good to see one of these turn out in favor of the good guy for a change. In my view this guy Should get a medal.

    What is it with this Little Florida town? First we get the report of the 91 year old defending his wife, not we get this from last year. I think this group and VCDL need to get on the ball with OC for Florida.


    EDIT:

    On a second listening it is clear that there were at least two bad guys. The shooter is frantically looking for the second person and when he runs outside you can hear him yelling for the other person to stop. The first time I thought he was talking to the clerk but now I am fairly certain he actually saw the second bad guy.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    ...First we get the report of the 91 year old defending his wife, not we get this from last year. ...
    Typo on the website in the OP. This actually happened this past Tuesday.

    http://www.wftv.com/news/18432030/detail.html#-



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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    As Dustin said, that's very humbling footage.

    It's amazing how fast the good-guy went from a decisive frame of mind where he was capable of taking action to full-blown shock. The instant he realized the second robber was no longer a threat he had a break-down.

    Those of us who carry to defend our lives know he was in the right (depending on what state we are in), but his reaction of shock and break-down in the 911 tape certainly would help him if a court prosecuted him.

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    Chris is an absolute hero. He did very well, very quickly. This is a perfect example of the quote which goes something like this:

    "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

    Chris is a GOOD MAN!



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    If you are unable to excelerate your matabalism (increased heart rate and breathing) mentally try do a minutes worth of briskjumping jacks, stop and immediately draw your weapon and fire at a target.

    There is an Olympic shooting competition that is combined with cross country skiing. The competiters follow a looped cross country course with a target range in the loop. they have to stop at the range and shoot at 5 to 6 knock down targets with a .22 rifle. This is a timed event that incorporates their shooting score as well, so they can't afford much time to get their breath (settle down) before they shoot. They are penalized (time added to their finish time) for every target they leave standing and they only get one shot per target. I don't remember how many times the competiters had to go around the loop and shoot.

    This competition oriented from Alpine miltary combat training.

    Similar training could be simiulated by setting up a short cross country jogging course if you have a place to do it. I would suggest doing the jogging portion without mags in semi-autos for safety purposes, load up afterstopping on the firing line.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    ...SNIP
    Similar training could be simiulated by setting up a short cross country jogging course if you have a place to do it. I would suggest doing the jogging portion without mags in semi-autos for safety purposes, load up afterstopping on the firing line.

    OR you could start shooting IPSC competitions. These are action matches designed after actual shooting situations. While these are generally designed to be "revolver neutral", they will in most cases require reloading, running, shooting from hard and soft cover.shooting to MISS hostages and a lot of other complex possibilities. Most courses of fire begin with a holstered weapon. The holster is required to retain the weapon while the shooter does a forward roll.

    A lot of people make up very expensive rigs for this type of shooting, but it is more fun to shoot using off the shelf equipment which tests the shooter rather than the equipment.

    At most of these events there are usually side matches with a pot going to the winner.


    Check out the US PSA for more details.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  17. #17
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    ...SNIP
    Similar training could be simiulated by setting up a short cross country jogging course if you have a place to do it. I would suggest doing the jogging portion without mags in semi-autos for safety purposes, load up afterstopping on the firing line.

    OR you could start shooting IPSC competitions. These are action matches designed after actual shooting situations. While these are generally designed to be "revolver neutral", they will in most cases require reloading, running, shooting from hard and soft cover.shooting to MISS hostages and a lot of other complex possibilities. Most courses of fire begin with a holstered weapon. The holster is required to retain the weapon while the shooter does a forward roll.

    A lot of people make up very expensive rigs for this type of shooting, but it is more fun to shoot using off the shelf equipment which tests the shooter rather than the equipment.

    At most of these events there are usually side matches with a pot going to the winner.


    Check out the US PSA for more details.
    Yeah, that too. I need to get over to Dickson one day and watch one of these.

    My thoughts were that by doing some sort of brisk physical excercize just prior to shooting , that it would at least partly simulate an adrenaline rush. I suspect that it is harder to aim and shoot accurately when your hearts racing and your breathing has been excelerated.

    Look at it this way. You would be improving your physical condition with the exercise, and working on your shooting skills, at the same time.

    Of course, that isn't the only affect we can experience when the adrenaline hits us all at once.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    ...SNIP
    My thoughts were that by doing some sort of brisk physical excercize just prior to shooting , that it would at least partly simulate an adrenaline rush. I suspect that it is harder to aim and shoot accurately when your hearts racing and your breathing has been excelerated.

    SNIP...
    Sometimes it actually puts you in "the zone", and improves your shooting skills.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  19. #19
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    More video and the 911 tapes. The video has a 2nd camera angle partway in.

    http://www.wftv.com/news/18432030/detail.html

    Wow, listen to the 911 tape. Another lesson on why you need to be the FIRST one to call 911 and explain very carefully that you are the good guy.

    Another customer called saying the good Samaritan was the robber and was holding the clerk at gunpoint. If he hadn't already called, the cops could have made a big mistake on arrival.

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