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Thread: Am I missing something about gun-free zones??

  1. #1
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    I just found this site tonight, and it is a fascinating read.I had surgery today, so maybe it is the pain pills making me think up questions, so here it is!!!!...

    I have a MI CCW permit, and I remember a little bit of a conversation about this when I had my last refresher. There are places we can't go, ie daycares, hospitals, churches, etc. But tonight I read in the forum that WE are exempt if we are a peace officer, an employee charged with providing security, the owner, "or anyone with a CCW from this state or any other state". My quote may not be accurate to the word, but that is the gist of it. In my obtunded state, does this mean that a CCW holder can go th church and worship with his trusted .38? Am I missing something here? All replies welcome. Thanks, Tom

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    The listof places restricted for CPL holders states that CPL holders may not carry a concealed pistol in those locations. It makes no reference to a non-concealed (and therefore open carry) pistol.

    In turn, the general restrictions on where one may carry a firearm in general (meaning open carry) exempts CPL holders from those restrictions.

    I understood the idea behind this the first time I read through the statutes. I believed it after I had confirmed my reading 2 or 3 more times. I accepted the truth of it after contemplating it, and reading it atleast 2 more times. I am now comfortable and confident in my understanding after more contemplation and additional re-reads. This should be considered overkill, but its the amount of importance I place on myself for getting this issue absolutely understood.

    In short...yes, statutory law allows a CPL holder to carry openly in the places listed as restricted to CPL holders when they carry a concealed pistol. In practice, these state threads are used to document experiences carrying in all locations, with particular interest in places which in other circumstances would be considered "gun free zones."

    We have no documented experiences of people carrying in public schools, please note. I personally am unwilling to provide our group a case study on this. I expect most here feel the same. Other than this...carry on.

    Welcome to OCDO, twieszcz. By the way, what part of the state are you from?

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    twieszcz wrote:
    I just found this site tonight, and it is a fascinating read.I had surgery today, so maybe it is the pain pills making me think up questions, so here it is!!!!...

    I have a MI CCW permit, and I remember a little bit of a conversation about this when I had my last refresher. There are places we can't go, ie daycares, hospitals, churches, etc. But tonight I read in the forum that WE are exempt if we are a peace officer, an employee charged with providing security, the owner, "or anyone with a CCW from this state or any other state". My quote may not be accurate to the word, but that is the gist of it. In my obtunded state, does this mean that a CCW holder can go th church and worship with his trusted .38? Am I missing something here? All replies welcome. Thanks, Tom
    Hi and Welcome What area or state ? Please

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    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Hcidem wrote:
    The listof places restricted for CPL holders states that CPL holders may not carry a concealed pistol in those locations. It makes no reference to a non-concealed (and therefore open carry) pistol.

    In turn, the general restrictions on where one may carry a firearm in general (meaning open carry) exempts CPL holders from those restrictions.

    I understood the idea behind this the first time I read through the statutes. I believed it after I had confirmed my reading 2 or 3 more times. I accepted the truth of it after contemplating it, and reading it atleast 2 more times. I am now comfortable and confident in my understanding after more contemplation and additional re-reads. This should be considered overkill, but its the amount of importance I place on myself for getting this issue absolutely understood.

    In short...yes, statutory law allows a CPL holder to carry openly in the places listed as restricted to CPL holders when they carry a concealed pistol. In practice, these state threads are used to document experiences carrying in all locations, with particular interest in places which in other circumstances would be considered "gun free zones."

    We have no documented experiences of people carrying in public schools, please note. I personally am unwilling to provide our group a case study on this. I expect most here feel the same. Other than this...carry on.

    Welcome to OCDO, twieszcz. By the way, what part of the state are you from?
    After the OC in Hastings I seen on the news, I looked into this site and did not believe everythning I read so I went and looked up all the laws in MI myself. This siteprovided most of the links but some looked up on my own because I dont trust the internet. The laws you seeat this siteare correct but you should look them up on your own it will make you feel more comfortable at least it did me. Before you go and carry you should doalot of studying just to keep you safe. Welcome to this great site.

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    Welcome to OCDO, and the MOC section.

    The laws that you (and the others) are refering to are as follows:



    Section 28.425o


    FIREARMS (EXCERPT)
    Act 372 of 1927
    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.Sec. 5o.
    (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.
    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.
    (c) A sports arena or stadium.
    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.
    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.
    (2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.
    (3) As used in subsection (1), "premises" does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).
    (4) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) An individual licensed under this act who is a retired police officer or retired law enforcement officer. The concealed weapon licensing board may require a letter from the law enforcement agency stating that the retired police officer or law enforcement officer retired in good standing.
    (b) An individual who is licensed under this act and who is employed or contracted by an entity described under subsection (1) to provide security services and is required by his or her employer or the terms of a contract to carry a concealed firearm on the premises of the employing or contracting entity.
    (c) An individual who is licensed as a private investigator or private detective under the private detective license act, 1965 PA 285, MCL 338.821 to 338.851.
    (d) Any of the following who is licensed under this act:
    (i) A corrections officer of a county sheriff's department.
    (ii) A motor carrier officer or capitol security officer of the department of state police.
    (iii) A member of a sheriff's posse.
    (iv) An auxiliary officer or reserve officer of a police or sheriff's department.
    (v) A parole or probation officer of the department of corrections.
    (5) An individual who violates this section is responsible for a state civil infraction or guilty of a crime as follows:
    (a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c), the individual is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $500.00. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol suspended for 6 months.
    (b) For a second violation, the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $1,000.00. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol revoked.
    (c) For a third or subsequent violation, the individual is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both. The court shall order the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol revoked.
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vpqhfmqlgstpmgrmuztrkrm2))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-28-425o





    Section 750.234d

    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931
    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vpqhfmqlgstpmgrmuztrkrm2))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-234d


    MCL 28.425o provides a list of zones in which carrying a concealed weapon is prohibited.



    MCL 750.234d provides a list of zones in which carrying a firearm is prohibited. Subsection (2)(c) of that law provides an exception to, "A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon." Do understand that there are some who do not recognize, accept, or acknowledge this section of the law. That list of those people could include LEO, prosecutors, and even a judge. Before venturing out for OC, a person should have a good understanding of not only the law, but also your rights, and how to appropriately assert them during any potential encounter. It is also advisable that before OC'ing, a person should read the threads the stickies at the top of this page which are titled, "MICHIGAN OPEN CARRY INFO HERE", and, "WASH, RINSE, REPEAT". Understand that just because it's legal does not mean the local authorities will "be okay" with it. It shouldn't be a problem, but it's in human nature to have preconceived notions, and prejudices.





  6. #6
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Don't forget this part
    Section 237a(4) of the Penal Code prohibits possession of a firearm in a weapon free school zone, a term defined in section 237a(6)(d) as "school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property." Like section 234d(2), the prohibition against possessing firearms in a school zone does not apply to a peace officer or to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon.

    You may want to read this Michigan AG Opinion. This opinion seems to discusses armed reserve police officers but Jennifer Granholm states that the prohibitions on possession
    do not apply to a peace officer nor a person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/da...0s/op10188.htm


    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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