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Unexpected Home Invasion

Hawkflyer

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Glocks_Rock wrote:
Decoligny wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
Glocks_Rock wrote:
normally I carry a g33 very easy to conceal, but on that day I changed it up and was carrying the 1911

SNIP...

Ok.... I can't ... I just can't pass up an opening like this...

WHERE EXACTLY WOULD YOU HAVE CONCEALED THE G33 IF YOU HAD IT INSTEAD:lol:?
Being naked, that just has to violate muzzle discipline! :shock:
Thats just WRONG on so may levels. :D Open mouth insert foot
LMAO ... What ever you do don't lose your sense of humor.:lol:
 

Glocks_Rock

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Hawkflyer wrote:
Glocks_Rock wrote:
Decoligny wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
Glocks_Rock wrote:
normally I carry a g33 very easy to conceal, but on that day I changed it up and was carrying the 1911

SNIP...

Ok.... I can't ... I just can't pass up an opening like this...

WHERE EXACTLY WOULD YOU HAVE CONCEALED THE G33 IF YOU HAD IT INSTEAD:lol:?
Being naked, that just has to violate muzzle discipline! :shock:
Thats just WRONG on so may levels. :D Open mouth insert foot
LMAO ... What ever you do don't lose your sense of humor.:lol:
I almost died laughing when I read that. i see right now I am going to really enjoy being a member and not just a reader of the forums.
 

shad0wfax

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I'm going to respond in [colored italictext in brackets] in the middle of your quote, since it's easiest to respond piece by piece that way. I realize I am Monday morning quarterbacking here and I don't at all intend to be negative. I hope you'll take everything constructively.

Before I go on though, I'd just like to say that since it ended well and you weren't hurt, you (by definition) did the right thing even though I think you made a few mistakes.

Glocks_Rock wrote:
[SNIP]
I was sound alseep when I heard the alarm chime go off (means door or window has been opened) I sit wide awake in bed and waited for the tell-telll lite in kitchen to come on from my son, I figured that he decided to come home after all. After a few seconds the light did not come on butI did notice a flashlight moving around in kitchen area.

I grabbed my glasses my cell, the flashlight and of course Big Dawg. I kicked the saftey off and started down the hall clearing the door ways as I went, with the light off(did not want to let the person knowI was up)[Perfect response so far.]So I made it into the living room and there are a stranger in my house looking for things to take.

I quickly turned on the flashlight and raise my 1911 up and was prepared to fire if need be. [good so far] The guy turned around and to say the least was very surprised to see me. He took a couple of steps towards me and i holered at him not to move. [Mistake: you should have fired the instant he moved towards you with the gun. This hesitation could have cost you your life.] I quickly flashed the light to my other hand so that he could see what he was facing and then back into his face (very bright sure fire light)I noticed that he was holding a very large hunting style knife I told him to drop the knife and to step away from it.[Mistake: flashing the light around may have warned him, but it also may have distracted you since you were devoting at least part of your thought to showing him your gun, meaning he could have lunged and surprised you here as well.]

He did and then I had him lay down on the carpet with hands up above his head and palms up. I then slowly moved over and turned on the over head light now that my eye sight had adjusted correctly.[Good recovery of a bad situation.]

So here I am naked with light and cell phone in one hand and my 1911 in the other with a BG face down on my floor in front of me.No[w] I know that in a short distance that someone with a knife can be just as dangerous as a man with a gun, soI was not taking my eyes off of him.[You knew, but you forgot when it mattered and he had the knife and was moving toward you. Adrenaline makes this type of thinking difficult, but it's no less crucial.]

I calleld the police and told them that I had an intruder in my house and that I did have a firearm pointed at him. I decsrcibed my self and gave instructions for police to safely enter my house, I also told the dispatcher thatI was undressed so that the police would not be taken off gaurd. I waited about 5-6 minutes on the phone with the dispatcher and then she told me that the police had arrived and was comming around to my back door.[Excellent call to police. Letting them know which guy was the good guy, which guy was the bad guy, where you were in the house with the firearm, and where they could enter safely was perfect. I don't think you could have done that better.]

[SNIP]
They were very professional about the entire ordeal and never gave me any grief about the gun

I had, in fact one of the officers (the female officer) thanked me for being one of the Good Guys and providing the dispatcher with enough informatin where they had a good idea of what they were walking into.[I'd take this to mean that you could have shot him when he lunged, and it still would have worked out for you with no charges filed. This is an assumption though.]

[SNIP]
Everyone one walked away and the best part is I did not have to clean up a bunch of blood from my carpet.[I agree. Not having tolive with taking the life of another human, face a jury, and clean up blood from your carpet is priceless. I'm glad it worked out sowell for you.] I am glad that all the years I have gone through some mental excercises on what if situations that I was in a clear enough state of mind to make at least some good decissions.[I think hesitating to shoot the instant he lunged at you and flashing the light to your pistolwere bad decisions. Thankfully the rest of your decisions were great and the encounter ended well.]

[SNIP]

Ok so now I am ready to open it up let me know where I dropped the ball :)
I know quoting like this makes it hard to reply to if anyone wants to quote me, but it seemed the easiest way to do it given the way it was written.
 

JBURGII

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Female Officer: "Sir, could you holster that weapon?"

So sorry...

Good outcome, good job.. and welcome to OCDO!

J

"All hail J! All hail J!"
 

Glocks_Rock

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shad0wfax wrote:
I'm going to respond in [colored italictext in brackets] in the middle of your quote, since it's easiest to respond piece by piece that way. I realize I am Monday morning quarterbacking here and I don't at all intend to be negative. I hope you'll take everything constructively.

Before I go on though, I'd just like to say that since it ended well and you weren't hurt, you (by definition) did the right thing even though I think you made a few mistakes.

Glocks_Rock wrote:
[SNIP]
I was sound alseep when I heard the alarm chime go off (means door or window has been opened) I sit wide awake in bed and waited for the tell-telll lite in kitchen to come on from my son, I figured that he decided to come home after all. After a few seconds the light did not come on butI did notice a flashlight moving around in kitchen area.

I grabbed my glasses my cell, the flashlight and of course Big Dawg. I kicked the saftey off and started down the hall clearing the door ways as I went, with the light off(did not want to let the person knowI was up)[Perfect response so far.]So I made it into the living room and there are a stranger in my house looking for things to take.

I quickly turned on the flashlight and raise my 1911 up and was prepared to fire if need be. [good so far] The guy turned around and to say the least was very surprised to see me. He took a couple of steps towards me and i holered at him not to move. [Mistake: you should have fired the instant he moved towards you with the gun. This hesitation could have cost you your life.] I quickly flashed the light to my other hand so that he could see what he was facing and then back into his face (very bright sure fire light)I noticed that he was holding a very large hunting style knife I told him to drop the knife and to step away from it.[Mistake: flashing the light around may have warned him, but it also may have distracted you since you were devoting at least part of your thought to showing him your gun, meaning he could have lunged and surprised you here as well.]

He did and then I had him lay down on the carpet with hands up above his head and palms up. I then slowly moved over and turned on the over head light now that my eye sight had adjusted correctly.[Good recovery of a bad situation.]

So here I am naked with light and cell phone in one hand and my 1911 in the other with a BG face down on my floor in front of me.No[w] I know that in a short distance that someone with a knife can be just as dangerous as a man with a gun, soI was not taking my eyes off of him.[You knew, but you forgot when it mattered and he had the knife and was moving toward you. Adrenaline makes this type of thinking difficult, but it's no less crucial.]

I calleld the police and told them that I had an intruder in my house and that I did have a firearm pointed at him. I decsrcibed my self and gave instructions for police to safely enter my house, I also told the dispatcher thatI was undressed so that the police would not be taken off gaurd. I waited about 5-6 minutes on the phone with the dispatcher and then she told me that the police had arrived and was comming around to my back door.[Excellent call to police. Letting them know which guy was the good guy, which guy was the bad guy, where you were in the house with the firearm, and where they could enter safely was perfect. I don't think you could have done that better.]

[SNIP]
They were very professional about the entire ordeal and never gave me any grief about the gun

I had, in fact one of the officers (the female officer) thanked me for being one of the Good Guys and providing the dispatcher with enough informatin where they had a good idea of what they were walking into.[I'd take this to mean that you could have shot him when he lunged, and it still would have worked out for you with no charges filed. This is an assumption though.]

[SNIP]
Everyone one walked away and the best part is I did not have to clean up a bunch of blood from my carpet.[I agree. Not having tolive with taking the life of another human, face a jury, and clean up blood from your carpet is priceless. I'm glad it worked out sowell for you.] I am glad that all the years I have gone through some mental excercises on what if situations that I was in a clear enough state of mind to make at least some good decissions.[I think hesitating to shoot the instant he lunged at you and flashing the light to your pistolwere bad decisions. Thankfully the rest of your decisions were great and the encounter ended well.]

[SNIP]

Ok so now I am ready to open it up let me know where I dropped the ball :)
I know quoting like this makes it hard to reply to if anyone wants to quote me, but it seemed the easiest way to do it given the way it was written.
All are very good points and if I had to do over I would change several things. I would not hesitate to shoot if it came down to that but again I am glad I was able to defuse the situation with out having to ( I know I'm very lucky).

Now I am not trying to sound like I am snapping back in a negative way at all so please do not take it that way.


I quickly flashed the light to my other hand so that he could see what he was facing and then back into his face (very bright sure fire light)I noticed that he was holding a very large hunting style knife I told him to drop the knife and to step away from it.[Mistake: flashing the light around may have warned him, but it also may have distracted you since you were devoting at least part of your thought to showing him your gun, meaning he could have lunged and surprised you here as well.]

Although I did flash the weapon at my other hand and yes that did take a conciensious thought to do so My eyes stayed on target. I was again fully prepared to shoot and if he would have came any closer then I would have shot.

I welcome all comments and do not take offense by constructive critisim, I thinks that is a very good learning tool.

Thank you for not making it a personal attack either.

 

Glocks_Rock

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JBURGII wrote:
Female Officer: "Sir, could you holster that weapon?"

So sorry...

Good outcome, good job.. and welcome to OCDO!

J

"All hail J! All hail J!"
I did not know they made holsters for canons :D
 

flintlock tom

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Once again Monday morning quarterbacking: When you spotted the guy why did you assume he was alone? He might have had a partner in another part of the house.

Overall, however, excellent outcome. My hat is off to you.
 

Glocks_Rock

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flintlock tom wrote:
Once again Monday morning quarterbacking: When you spotted the guy why did you assume he was alone? He might have had a partner in another part of the house.

Overall, however, excellent outcome. My hat is off to you.

That is a very good question, the only answer I have would be another careless mistake on my part as well as I had cleard all but two rooms of my house on the way to the kitchen/living room area. There very well could have benn more than one BG and again I am glad there was not.

So may I ask other than shooting him and then assuming there were others what could I have done different? what would you have done different to ensure he was the only BG?
 

shad0wfax

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Glocks_Rock wrote:
flintlock tom wrote:
Once again Monday morning quarterbacking: When you spotted the guy why did you assume he was alone? He might have had a partner in another part of the house.

Overall, however, excellent outcome. My hat is off to you.

That is a very good question, the only answer I have would be another careless mistake on my part as well as I had cleard all but two rooms of my house on the way to the kitchen/living room area. There very well could have benn more than one BG and again I am glad there was not.

So may I ask other than shooting him and then assuming there were others what could I have done different? what would you have done different to ensure he was the only BG?

Excellent point flintlock tom and one I hadtaken for granted.

Glocks_Rock, as long as you had cleared every room behind you, there's not much more you could have done. Positioning yourself in such a way that you could see the entire body of the bad guy and any entrance to the room in the same line of fire would be the best tactical answer.

I had taken it for granted that you did this, based on the story. Other than shooting him the instant he advanced on you (or shooting him before he moved if he was within 21' of you with no obstructions) and making sure the entire house was clear I don't think you could have done anything better than you did. You handled the police call extremely well and your presence of mind to not light up the house with your weapon light, thus giving you the drop on the bad-guy was an excellent decision.
 

Glocks_Rock

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shad0wfax wrote:
Glocks_Rock wrote:
flintlock tom wrote:
Once again Monday morning quarterbacking: When you spotted the guy why did you assume he was alone? He might have had a partner in another part of the house.

Overall, however, excellent outcome. My hat is off to you.

That is a very good question, the only answer I have would be another careless mistake on my part as well as I had cleard all but two rooms of my house on the way to the kitchen/living room area. There very well could have benn more than one BG and again I am glad there was not.

So may I ask other than shooting him and then assuming there were others what could I have done different? what would you have done different to ensure he was the only BG?

Excellent point flintlock tom and one I hadtaken for granted.

Glocks_Rock, as long as you had cleared every room behind you, there's not much more you could have done. Positioning yourself in such a way that you could see the entire body of the bad guy and any entrance to the room in the same line of fire would be the best tactical answer.

I had taken it for granted that you did this, based on the story. Other than shooting him the instant he advanced on you (or shooting him before he moved if he was within 21' of you with no obstructions) and making sure the entire house was clear I don't think you could have done anything better than you did. You handled the police call extremely well and your presence of mind to not light up the house with your weapon light, thus giving you the drop on the bad-guy was an excellent decision.

I guess I assumed that since I heard the door chirp and was out of bed failry quick and that I had cleared the majority of the house that he was alone. I was positioned where I could see the BG as well as the back door, but my back was to the rest of the house at that point, again bad mistake on my part. from my bed room I can see partially into one of the bedrooms that I did not clear and did not see any light/ movement so again I assumed.

I guess I am very lucky that he was alone.

Also when I spotted him and he started to adcance there was still a bout 20 feet or so and my weapon was dran and already in a reasy status.

But as it has been made very clear to me that I made many tactial mistakes and ones that could have very well had a REAL bad outcome.

I have discussed this in detail with my wife and other that the obvious of me not being hurt, she was glad that I did not shoot him just because of our 9 year old gilr having ot live where someone was shot to death.

Please continue to post comments. I hope that not only myself but others can walk away with some gained knowledge and things they maybe should/should not do if they are faced with similar situation.
 

Hawkflyer

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Don't be too quick to change your tactics based on the comment that you should not illuminate your weapon. Sometimes a little more light on the front sight is very helpful. As long as you did not look away from the target or get the light behind you.

I wonder if that idiot knows just how close he came. Did he talk to you while you had him down waiting for the police? If so that would be useful to the prosecutor.
 

ChickenFarmer

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Great story....but the title?

Unexpected home invasion?

Do you normally expect a home invasion?

Just busting your....wait...bad pun to use here...

I commend you on not pulling the trigger. Although some expect that since you have a gun and someone was in your home you should pull the trigger in most situations I don't believe so.

I used to get into fights in school frequently. Sure, I could have beaten the guys to a pulp in many of them, but instead I would typically only restrain them until someone of authority could pull us apart.

As Uncle Ben of Spider-Man said "With great power comes great responsibility. Just because you can bet them up, doesn't mean you should."

Be collective and calm. Don't shoot unless you have to, and if you do only use as many shots as is necessary to stop the threat.

Keep well and may your family be safe and the robber be forever changed with fear and thankfulness you didn't blast him.
 

centsi

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I think you handled this very, very well. I disagree with the guys saying that you should have shot the intruder the instant he took a few steps toward you. I don't know how far away you were from him, but you obviously didn't feel threatened enough to shoot at that point. Perhaps some of us think we would have done things differently, but we'll never know because we weren't there. You survived, didn't have to kill someone else, and the BG got hauled away. That's 3/3 in my book.
 

MetalChris

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Glocks_Rock wrote:
Tomahawk wrote:
Can you tell us what state and city this was in?
it is in Ferris TX
Shooooot man, you would've gotten a medal had you shot the scumbag!

But you still would've had to clean up the blood...not a fun thing. :cool:
 

shad0wfax

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centsi wrote:
[SNIP] I disagree with the guys saying that you should have shot the intruder the instant he took a few steps toward you. I don't know how far away you were from him, but you obviously didn't feel threatened enough to shoot at that point. [SNIP]
The following is more for centsi's benefit and is in no way intended to be a criticism of the OP's decision not to fire. I've already made my suggestions to the OP in as polite a manner as possible and now I'm diverging on a very slight tangent to address the "21 foot rule."


This article explains the "21 foot rule" I referred to and the arguments for and against it in a fairlyobjective manner (but from an LEO perspective):

http://www.usadojo.com/articles/21-feet-valid.htm

Put yourself in an identical situation to the OP right at the point where he flicks his light on and orders the bad guy not to move:

  • It's dark, your flashlight is the only source of light.
  • The OP's adrenaline is pumping and so is the knife-wielding burglar's.
  • From the above article, the average person covers 21 feet and can strike with a knife in 1.55 seconds and the fastest did it in 1.27 (with the article mentioning the possability of drugs/adrenaline making the time even quicker.
  • The average human reaction time to left-click with a mouse (very similar to tapping atrigger actually)is 0.215 seconds. (http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/stats.php)
  • If the burglar makes a lunge or movement towards you and you are positively committed to shooting the instant he moves, he'll have already movedabout3feet (based on 21ft in 1.55 seconds = 13.548 fps and 13.548 ft/sec * 0.215 sec = 2.9 ft.
(This is where the situation becomes hypothetical and diverges from the OP's encounter)

  • If you haven't fired by now, you're in a situation where the bad guy might stop or he might not. You don't know and you have to judge his direction and rate of speed to determine which way you need to move to avoid being cut.
  • After you decide he is a threat, and still moving towards you, you'llhave to fire your shots. That's moving while shooting at a moving target illuminated by your flashlight (or weapon light) with adrenaline pumping and by now he's probably closed another 3 to 9 feet, leaving you with somewhere between half of a second and a full second.
  • You have to stop him before he cuts or stabs you. At this point even a dead-centered heart-shot may not stop him in his tracks. It might take the fight out of him but his momentum might still carry him intostabbing range.The only guaranteed way of stopping him is a spine-shot or a head-shot. (A hip-shotmight do the trick if you shatter his pelvis and dislocate his femur at the hip, but good luck with that. The head shot and spine shot are easier.)
That's why I said the instant that knife-wielding burglar took a step towards me I would have shot to end the threat.

(Mozambique drill anyone?)



Long story short: the OP is very fortunate the bad-guy did stop. We should never count on luck to save us in a situation where we are threatened with a knife or other deadly weapon.



EDIT: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum60/20455.htmlThis thread in the same forum as purely anecdotal evidence, but demonstrates that even elderly people can return fire after they've been shot six times. (one in the back and one in the face)
 
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