Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: Yes or No? Plain and Simple?

  1. #1
    Opt-Out Members
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas, ,
    Posts
    23

    Post imported post

    Yes or No ? Plain and Simple? Is it currently legal, in Texas... to Open Carry while you are standingON YOUR OWN PROPERTY??

    Now... let's not pretend we all live on RANCHES, ok. Most of us live in cities or towns, big and small. And let's not forget to question the difference between renting a house and owning a house!? But...what is the answer? Does anyone know?

    My understanding is... it is currently legal for a "homeowner" to OpenCarry if he is standing on "his own property". This should include his frontyard, his backyard, and his driveway. Andof course, we all know that"carrying" means "holstered". Once you pull it, and it's in your hand, this could be a crime called "Brandishing".

    Does anyone know?



  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    Yes.











    Edit: And here is the text version incase you catch any flack.


    SECTION 1. Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (a-1) and (a-2) to read as follows:
    (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

    (1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
    (2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

    (a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:

    (1) the handgun is in plain view; or
    (2) the person is:

    A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
    B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
    C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.

    (a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bedford, Texas, USA
    Posts
    834

    Post imported post

    I open carry in my front yard and driveway all the time. I live in the middle of the DFW complex

  4. #4
    Opt-Out Members
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas, ,
    Posts
    23

    Post imported post

    WOW... :what:

    Mr Suddeth and Mr Trig,

    You guys are great. That was a fast response, and more informative, etc etc than I could have hoped for!

    I'm going to frame the Texas Penal Code and hang it on my wall... for the next time (yes,it has happened already) that the local LEO's come screaching up in front of my house pulling guns on me and searching me down and yelling at me and trying to interrogate me... all because of a neighbor of mine who thinks she can get away with making false 911 calls.If you are trying to figure out what her problem is... imagine "Rosie O'Donnel"... if you know what I mean.

    Do you guys know of a good local Attorney that specializes in Second Amendment and/or GunLaws? I live in Garland...N/W suburb of Dallas.

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bedford, Texas, USA
    Posts
    834

    Post imported post

    ironclad wrote:
    WOW... :what:

    Mr Suddeth and Mr Trig,

    You guys are great. That was a fast response, and more informative, etc etc than I could have hoped for!

    I'm going to frame the Texas Penal Code and hang it on my wall... for the next time (yes,it has happened already) that the local LEO's come screaching up in front of my house pulling guns on me and searching me down and yelling at me and trying to interrogate me... all because of a neighbor of mine who thinks she can get away with making false 911 calls.If you are trying to figure out what her problem is... imagine "Rosie O'Donnel"... if you know what I mean.

    Do you guys know of a good local Attorney that specializes in Second Amendment and/or GunLaws? I live in Garland...N/W suburb of Dallas.
    Ironclad, have you posted about this particular situation that happened to you on this board at any time?

    also, PM me the relevant information about the incident. Date, time, officers involved. Have you requested any FOIA sources like 911 tapes or police reports?

  6. #6
    Lone Star Veteran
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , Texas, USA
    Posts
    161

    Post imported post

    ironclad wrote:
    [...snip...] Once you pull it, and it's in your hand, this could be a crime called "Brandishing".

    Does anyone know?

    Texas penal code Chp. 46 makes no definition/use of the word "brandish". The closest you get is "unlawful carry" of 46.02.


    I wanted to note:

    Text of subsection as reenacted by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1048, Sec. 3

    (b)Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

    (1)is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution;

    (2)is on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision (5);

    (3)is traveling;

    (4)is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

    (5)holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas Private Security Board, if the person:

    (A)is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as an officer commissioned under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, or is traveling to or from the person's place of assignment; and

    (B)is either:

    (i)wearing the officer's uniform and carrying
    the officer's weapon in plain view; or

    (ii)acting as a personal protection officer and carrying the person's security officer commission and personal protection officer authorization;

    (6)is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying; or

    (7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises.

    (c)The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a club does not apply to a noncommissioned security guard at an institution of higher education who carries a nightstick or similar club, and who has undergone 15 hours of training in the proper use of the club, including at least seven hours of training in the use of the club for nonviolent restraint. For the purposes of this subsection, "nonviolent restraint" means the use of reasonable force, not intended and not likely to inflict bodily injury.

    (d)The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a firearm or carrying of a club do not apply to a public security officer employed by the adjutant general under Section 431.029, Government Code, in performance of official duties or while traveling to or from a place of duty.

    (e)The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of an illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying a bowie knife or a sword used in a historical demonstration or in a ceremony in which the knife or sword is significant to the performance of the ceremony.

    (f)Section 46.03(a)(6) does not apply to a person who possesses a firearm or club while in the actual discharge of official duties as:

    (1)a member of the armed forces or state military forces, as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code; or

    (2)an employee of a penal institution.

    (g)Repealed by Acts 2005, 79th Leg., Ch. 1093, Sec. 4, eff. September 1, 2005.

    (h)Repealed by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 693, Sec. 3(1), eff. September 1, 2007.

    (i)Repealed by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 693, Sec. 3(2), eff. September 1, 2007.

    (j)The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a handgun do not apply to an individual who carries a handgun as a participant in a historical reenactment performed in accordance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.


  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Newport News, Va
    Posts
    181

    Post imported post

    There is no "Brandishing" in the Penal Code. However you could be charged w/ Disorderly Conduct or Deadly Conduct..... depending on the circumstances. I don't have the penal code right here in front of me so I cant quote chapter and verse.

  8. #8
    Lone Star Veteran Gator5713's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Aggieland, Texas, USA
    Posts
    593

    Post imported post

    Rental property counts as well... As long as it is property that you rightfully "Control" Fortunately, I don't think that any of my neighbors would take a second look or think anything of it... Of course, I DO live on ranch land!
    "(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or"


  9. #9
    Opt-Out Members
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas, ,
    Posts
    23

    Post imported post

    AFCop wrote:
    There is no "Brandishing" in the Penal Code. However you could be charged w/ Disorderly Conduct or Deadly Conduct..... depending on the circumstances. I don't have the penal code right here in front of me so I cant quote chapter and verse.

    ... So, let me see if I understand? I was wrong about the "Brandishing" crime. There is no such thing. It would be "Unlawful Carry". But, everyone seems to agree that OpenCarry is currently legal on your own property, even if it does make one of your neighbors "uncomfortable". But even though it is legal, I could still be charged with... Disorderly Conduct or Deadly Conduct...!!!??? ...or maybe Unlawful Carry!?

    No wonder... that the local LEO's sometimes seem to be interpreting the law instead of simply enforcing the law.To be honest... The Law and the Legalese that it is written in, just does not make sense to me (or to them). It gives me a headache and it makes my eyes bleed when I try to read it, over and over again!!

    Edit...By the way, it really wasn't me who was wrong about the "Brandishing" word. I learned that term directly from the local LEO who screeched up in front of my house and held me at gunpoint while he screamed at me about my gun, and frisked me down. Joke was on him..I had accidentally left my gun inside all day. He said that 911 got a complaint from one of my neighbors that "I was Brandishing a gun".






  10. #10
    Lone Star Veteran Gator5713's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Aggieland, Texas, USA
    Posts
    593

    Post imported post

    IronClad,
    I think that you missed part of what was said...
    Correct: there is no "Brandishing" terminology in the Texas penal code, if you are 'brandishing' you are likely to be charged with 'disorderly conduct', disturbance of the peace, or some other similar charge, however simply "Carrying" (as in HOLSTERED on your hip) you are not subject to those charges.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    42

    Post imported post

    ..

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    26

    Post imported post

    ironclad wrote:
    Edit...By the way, it really wasn't me who was wrong about the "Brandishing" word. I learned that term directly from the local LEO who screeched up in front of my house and held me at gunpoint while he screamed at me about my gun, and frisked me down. Joke was on him..I had accidentally left my gun inside all day. He said that 911 got a complaint from one of my neighbors that "I was Brandishing a gun".




    I smell a lawsuit in the making!!!!:celebrate

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    The Real World.
    Posts
    1,705

    Post imported post

    You really should have contacted a lawyer right away.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Newport News, Va
    Posts
    181

    Post imported post

    Sec.22.05.DEADLY CONDUCT.(a)A person commits an offense if he recklessly engages in conduct that places another in imminent danger of serious bodily injury.

    (b)A person commits an offense if he knowingly discharges a firearm at or in the direction of:

    (1)one or more individuals; or

    (2)a habitation, building, or vehicle and is reckless as to whether the habitation, building, or vehicle is occupied.

    (c)Recklessness and danger are presumed if the actor knowingly pointed a firearm at or in the direction of another whether or not the actor believed the firearm to be loaded.

    (d)For purposes of this section, "building," "habitation," and "vehicle" have the meanings assigned those terms by Section 30.01.

    (e)An offense under Subsection (a) is a Class A misdemeanor. An offense under Subsection (b) is a felony of the third degree.




    Sec.42.01.DISORDERLY CONDUCT.(a)A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

    (1)uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar language in a public place, and the language by its very utterance tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;

    (2)makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;

    (3)creates, by chemical means, a noxious and unreasonable odor in a public place;

    (4)abuses or threatens a person in a public place in an obviously offensive manner;

    (5)makes unreasonable noise in a public place other than a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code, or in or near a private residence that he has no right to occupy;

    (6)fights with another in a public place;

    (7)discharges a firearm in a public place other than a public road or a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code;

    (8)displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

    (9)discharges a firearm on or across a public road;

    (10)exposes his anus or genitals in a public place and is reckless about whether another may be present who will be offended or alarmed by his act; or

    (11)for a lewd or unlawful purpose:

    (A)enters on the property of another and looks into a dwelling on the property through any window or other opening in the dwelling;

    (B)while on the premises of a hotel or comparable establishment, looks into a guest room not the person's own through a window or other opening in the room; or

    (C)while on the premises of a public place, looks into an area such as a restroom or shower stall or changing or dressing room that is designed to provide privacy to a person using the area.

    (b)It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(4) that the actor had significant provocation for his abusive or threatening conduct.

    (c)For purposes of this section:

    (1)an act is deemed to occur in a public place or near a private residence if it produces its offensive or proscribed consequences in the public place or near a private residence; and

    (2)a noise is presumed to be unreasonable if the noise exceeds a decibel level of 85 after the person making the noise receives notice from a magistrate or peace officer that the noise is a public nuisance.

    (d)An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor unless committed under Subsection (a)(7) or (a)(8), in which event it is a Class B misdemeanor.

    (e)It is a defense to prosecution for an offense under Subsection (a)(7) or (9) that the person who discharged the firearm had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code.



    Ironclad, I have posted the language found in the Penal Code for each of the offenses I mentioned. The facts you presented would not indicate any violation of either section. These are the only offenses as there is no "disturbing the peace" either. Also, if you look at Unlawful Carry, it would not apply at all because of the wording here;

    Sec.46.02.UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.(a)A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

    (1)on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or

    (2)inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

    (a-1)A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:

    (1)the handgun is in plain view; or

    (2)the person is:

    (A)engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;

    (B)prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or

    (C)a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.

    (a-2)For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.

    (b)Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

    (c)An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

  15. #15
    Opt-Out Members
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas, ,
    Posts
    23

    Post imported post

    To All Posters/Repliers here...

    Sincerely...thank you very much!! for your responses! I find myself in an awkward situation here, where I live... and not ashamed to admit that I do need help from others, to figure it out.

    All of you have been very helpful. Thank You...this is a great website

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, ,
    Posts
    20

    Post imported post

    I don't know about Dallas County, but Tarrant will charge you with making a terroristic threat for "brandishing", and with aggrivated assault if you raise it. That can apply equally for a pocket knife or a firearm. I can't quote the section of the penal code, but have seen it first hand.

  17. #17
    Opt-Out Members
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas, ,
    Posts
    23

    Post imported post

    David817 wrote:
    I don't know about Dallas County, but Tarrant will charge you with making a terroristic threat for "brandishing", and with aggrivated assault if you raise it. That can apply equally for a pocket knife or a firearm. I can't quote the section of the penal code, but have seen it first hand.

    David, thanks for backing me up!! You are right next door in Fort Worth and you agree that LEO's choose to ignore State Laws. You would not believe how many angry posts I have recieved accusing me of being anti-LEO... or just calling me a liar... or saying I must be crazy or queer. The fact is... some LEO's in some jurisdictions... just do not support Constitutional Rights, or State Laws, or OpenCarry, or Concealed Handgun Licenses... they are simply acting like little children who are angry about losing their personal privileged POWER.

    Bull@#$%... everyone knows, when a violent dangerous deadly confrontation takes place with just seconds to respond... 911 and the LEO's are... just minutes away.

    Seems to me, this website and all the other related websites are choosing to ignore the big truth (the elephant in the room)... that there is a problem. Some LEO's are just pissed off, about Citizens getting the legal right to carry, and to protect themselves...(in a way I don't blame them)...I wouldn't want to be a cop in Dallas County either... But.. Who needs a cop to show up half an hour later after all the bullets have stopped flying... just to fill out the paperwork and call an ambulance to mop up the mess. "Protect and Preserve" was a real cute and adequate logo...long ago...when times were so much more peacefull... But, Dallas County has been one of the nation's #1 killing fields for so long now... it really is stupid for cops to begrudge the citizens the right and the will to protect themselves...now!!


  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Newport News, Va
    Posts
    181

    Post imported post

    Personally I think (and this is going to be a bash for a minute) there are some LEOs (NOT ALL)out there who simply get on a power or an ego trip more than ignoring civil rights. And time and time again I say, Just because cops enforce the law doesnt necessarily mean they know the law. Even the legislatures know that, ever hear of "qualified immunity".

    Dont get me wrong, I love my profession and wouldnt trade it for anything but I am also not niave and know (just like everything else) there are a few bad apples.



    I am a LEO and I love my fellow LEOs to death, but we have some black sheep in our family.

  19. #19
    Lone Star Veteran
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , Texas, USA
    Posts
    161

    Post imported post




    ironclad wrote:
    Edit...By the way, it really wasn't me who was wrong about the "Brandishing" word. I learned that term directly from the local LEO who screeched up in front of my house and held me at gunpoint while he screamed at me about my gun, and frisked me down. Joke was on him..I had accidentally left my gun inside all day. He said that 911 got a complaint from one of my neighbors that "I was Brandishing a gun".
    To All Posters/Repliers here...

    Sincerely...thank you very much!! for your responses! I find myself in an awkward situation here, where I live... and not ashamed to admit that I do need help from others, to figure it out.

    All of you have been very helpful. Thank You...this is a great website



    No worries.

    I think those of us that posted penal code in contrast to the term "brandish" did so so that you had the information necessary when the term "brandish" was being used against you.

    I was definitely not calling you names!






  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    301

    Post imported post

    Holster not required on your own property or "property under your control" which includes a store you're working in with permission of store owner...many years of pawn shop work with .45 in my belt or holster...just don't walk out the front door...it's really about common sense...I don't go to the truck or separate entrance garage without my pistol....day or night...but it's under a shirt...I'll bet my neighbors either side don't know I carry....same to carry the garbage to the alley...I think once we have open carry, a lot of neighborhoods will be a lot safer...once the punks see the folks in a neighborhood are armed...they'll move on...I remember the day when a shopkeeper we bought groceries from had a nickel-plated S&W beside the meat scales...common back then...just a tool of doing business...having been a LEO, I'd love to see every business armed...but trained, too...we've become a nation of sheep who say "...Protect me"...instead of strong citizens who say "Don't tread on me!"...we need to go back and I believe open carry will do that....

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Laveen, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    432

    Post imported post

    I often wonder when the men of this country became such wimps. Pretty sad.

  22. #22
    Lone Star Veteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Vernon, Wilbarger county, Texas, USA
    Posts
    149

    Post imported post

    I where mine at all times openly when i am at my house, always. It doesn't matter what i am doing it is strapped on my side and i have yet to have LEO's show up at my home, now i have had a few heads turn at me but no calls.

  23. #23
    Opt-Out Members
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas, ,
    Posts
    23

    Post imported post

    nking wrote:
    I wear mine at all times openly when i am at my house, always. It doesn't matter what i am doing it is strapped on my side and i have yet to have LEO's show up at my home, now i have had a few heads turn at me but no calls.
    Mr NKing,

    You live in Vernon? Sounds like you live where people aren't crazy, and neighbors are friendly. I've decided I am going to move!...really, I am!!

    I'm making a list... and putting Vernon on it.

  24. #24
    Lone Star Veteran
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Vernon, Wilbarger county, Texas, USA
    Posts
    149

    Post imported post

    haha well there isn't much here but i do enjoy the peice an quite except when the dummies drag race down my block

  25. #25
    Opt-Out Members
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas, ,
    Posts
    23

    Post imported post

    Not much there, except Peace and Quiet!? Sounds great. Yur sure lucky, there!

    You wouldn't have to worry about me drag racing... I am a certified Old Fart... who gets around on a cane half the time. Good looking women don't even get me going, anymore. The only times I rev it up, is when I'm on my way to fishing or hunting.

    I wish that you could live here in my house, in the Dallas area for just a short while... the certified national violent killing ground of the nation...next to Detroit and Philadelphia... so you could get it...how lucky you are...living in Vernon! Stop, take a breath, look around you, count your blessings.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •