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Showcase Cinemas in Louisville...no firearms?

chris in va

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I almost didn't see the little line-circle-gun thing walking through the door. Upon closer inspection it basically said "no concealed firearms per KRS 237.110 (subsection 13). Violators will be prosecuted".

Now is that a trespassing charge if you refuse to leave, or can they just arrest you on the spot? There were two spots out front for "LEO Detail Parking Only" but no cops there when we went in, but one was cruising the lobby once the movie let out.

In VA we just had the 'no firearms' sign which doesn't hold weight until you refuse to leave...

And since when is it necessary to have LEO's walking around in a movie theater?? Does stuff happen here I don't know about?

EDIT: Did some reading on the statute. Essentially the whole thing deals with a permit not being reissued if it was revoked previously. If the permit gets revoked and the holder doesn't surrender it, the individual gets charged with a Class A Misdemeanor.

Now whiskey tango foxtrot does that have to do with anything?
 

chris in va

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I can't email the page administrator, don't have a Yahoo account.

Looks like that statute only deals with state buildings, not private property like the movie theater.
 

superdemon

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You know, these are the times when it may be best to just conceal the weapon. I don't like to do it, but I'd rather conceal it, still have it with me, and avoid any hassles by the management and/or the LEOs that are probably going to be called.

There is a difference between "perfectly legal" and "not a good idea". Part of having a right is the prudence to know when to exercise it.

Obviously, the signs are not postedat the behest of the local management, but come from thenational offices. Typically, the 18year old manager won't have a clue as to why the sign is up, or even if it is legal, which just leaves a LEOto come to the scene and try to straighten it out, which rarely goes well.

Just untuck your shirt and rest assured that you still have yourweapon in this instance.

And it is subsections 16 and 17 that deal with where you can't carry concealed.

And yes, if you are asked to leave a private business, FOR ANY REASON, and you refuse to do so, you put yourself in danger of Criminal Trespass.
 

v8shoguy

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I saw a "concealed weapons prohibited" sign at the cinema in Stonybrook before I had my permit. KY law says that wherever OC is legal CC is legal therefore the sign is not enforceable. Just walked right in and nothing was said. I got food, watched my movie, left. There were at least 8 LEO in the lobby that night so if anyone noticed they didn't say anything.
 

superdemon

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For me, at times like this, and I stress only at a few times like this, I ask myself...

"Which rights to I want to exercise right now?

1. My right to OC, or

2. My rights to an attorney, to remain silent, etc..."

In these few, rare circumstance, I would rather just conceal the weapon and go about my business knowing I still had it on my side.

Pick your battles, folks. Sometimes, going to the movies just doesn't have to involve constitutional issues, unless you choose to make it that way.
 

v8shoguy

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(just clarifying) I specifically mentioned in my situation with a similar sign that I was without a permit at the time, covering up was not an option. I was prepared to carry in (I was meeting people already inside) and be asked to leave rather than leave it in my car to be stolen (LEOs were inside, not patrolling the parking lot). Now having my permit, I would be more apt to cover up in the same situation.

I do agree though, be prepared to exercise your "right to an attorney" if you encounter a seemingly ambiguous situation. You may have done nothing wrong, but every day that I OC I am prepared for the very real fact that I might spend the next 24 in lockup, because chances are you won't win a disagreement with a LEO on the street.
 

superdemon

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chris in va wrote:
I almost didn't see the little line-circle-gun thing walking through the door. Upon closer inspection it basically said "no concealed firearms per KRS 237.110 (subsection 13). Violators will be prosecuted".

Now is that a trespassing charge if you refuse to leave, or can they just arrest you on the spot? There were two spots out front for "LEO Detail Parking Only" but no cops there when we went in, but one was cruising the lobby once the movie let out.

In VA we just had the 'no firearms' sign which doesn't hold weight until you refuse to leave...

And since when is it necessary to have LEO's walking around in a movie theater?? Does stuff happen here I don't know about?

EDIT: Did some reading on the statute. Essentially the whole thing deals with a permit not being reissued if it was revoked previously. If the permit gets revoked and the holder doesn't surrender it, the individual gets charged with a Class A Misdemeanor.

Now whiskey tango foxtrot does that have to do with anything?

The bolded text amuses me greatly.

You know, when uneducated people see you carrying your weapon OC, they are asking, "Why is it necessary for him to walk around in a movie theater with a gun?"

Learn empathy, my friend,you are pushing the boundaries of being a hypocrit here...
 

v8shoguy

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The theatre owners "rent" the officers. If the owner wants to pay the officers then I have no problem with it. If it was the officer's duty post (Gov't clock) then I woulod be against it.

IMO it's probably a good idea to have authority figures in areas where teenagers hang out (malls, theatres, etc) as there's more of a chance of them trying to "prove" something. As evidence, I saw more fights in my last 2 years of high school than I have seen since then, including 2 years of Army Active Duty time. YMMV
 

superdemon

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v8shoguy wrote:
The theatre owners "rent" the officers. If the owner wants to pay the officers then I have no problem with it. If it was the officer's duty post (Gov't clock) then I woulod be against it.

IMO it's probably a good idea to have authority figures in areas where teenagers hang out (malls, theatres, etc) as there's more of a chance of them trying to "prove" something. As evidence, I saw more fights in my last 2 years of high school than I have seen since then, including 2 years of Army Active Duty time. YMMV
in reference to the bolded text...


Why in the world would you have a problem with LEOs doing concentrated enforcement in an area that required it/responded well to it?

Does the term "proactive" mean nothing to you?

I am not saying that the officers were or were not working "on duty" or as a second job, but even on duty, if they need to be there, then they need to be there. It's better to put in a presence, and prevent some sort of trouble, than to respond after the fact and clean up the broken bodies and property. Trust me, even if they were on the clock, it is way cheaper to have them there than to have them respond to take care of the mess.
 

v8shoguy

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superdemon wrote:
Why in the world would you have a problem with LEOs doing concentrated enforcement in an area that required it/responded well to it?

Does the term "proactive" mean nothing to you?

I am not saying that the officers were or were not working "on duty" or as a second job, but even on duty, if they need to be there, then they need to be there. It's better to put in a presence, and prevent some sort of trouble, than to respond after the fact and clean up the broken bodies and property. Trust me, even if they were on the clock, it is way cheaper to have them there than to have them respond to take care of the mess.
As a stop on a patrol, I have no problem with it. If an officer's duty assignment is on private property I have an issue. It should be the responsibility of the owner. I think that hiring off-duty LEOs is an excellent solution for the business.
 

Sonora Rebel

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superdemon wrote:
There is a difference between "perfectly legal" and "not a good idea". Part of having a right is the prudence to know when to exercise it.

You said more in that one line than most of the 'tomes' in this forum to the contrary.

'Goes along with 'All things in moderation'... & 'Reasonable & prudent'... rather than 'In your face... regardless'.
 

superdemon

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v8shoguy wrote:
superdemon wrote:
Why in the world would you have a problem with LEOs doing concentrated enforcement in an area that required it/responded well to it?

Does the term "proactive" mean nothing to you?

I am not saying that the officers were or were not working "on duty" or as a second job, but even on duty, if they need to be there, then they need to be there. It's better to put in a presence, and prevent some sort of trouble, than to respond after the fact and clean up the broken bodies and property. Trust me, even if they were on the clock, it is way cheaper to have them there than to have them respond to take care of the mess.
As a stop on a patrol, I have no problem with it. If an officer's duty assignment is on private property I have an issue. It should be the responsibility of the owner. I think that hiring off-duty LEOs is an excellent solution for the business.
Again, for the sake of decorum, we are assuming the police are working the theater on the clock...


Again, tell me why you have a problem with concentrated enforcement where it is needed. If there was a serious assault or robbery, the first thing the citizenry woudl scream is that there should be more police in the area. Put police in the area, then others scream that it is a waste of tax payer money. See thesituations we LEOs are in constantly?

You still haven't commented on how you question police presence in the area, but don't consider how poeple would question your decision to openly carry a firearm...

Besides, if you are an honest, law-abiding citizen, why do you have aproblem with police presence? If you conduct youself in a polite, respectable manner, and don't look like a thug, we (the police, at least the one who know what we are doing) won't give you a second look. EVERYONE gets a first look, as that is how we establish you aren't a thug, but you won't get a second one.
 

chris in va

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The bolded text amuses me greatly.

You know, when uneducated people see you carrying your weapon OC, they are asking, "Why is it necessary for him to walk around in a movie theater with a gun?"

Learn empathy, my friend,you are pushing the boundaries of being a hypocrit here..



No need to be on the offensive and slap my wrist with a ruler, I come from the VA area and this is the first time I've seen a uniformed police officer patrolling a movie theater. Saw the same thing over in Indiana by the Bass Pro Shops.

I was trying to figure out if there have been numerous fights or gang activity to warrant a police presence complete with two LEO-only parking spaces. Doesn't seem to be in a 'bad' part of town. I have no issue with the practice.
Besides, if you are an honest, law-abiding citizen, why do you have aproblem with police presence



Because more often than not, the LEO's I've run into over the past few years do NOT feel a citizen should be carrying a weapon and I've witnessed a trio of LEO's harassing a friend of mine for carrying legally into a Denny's at 11pm. They stated "you have no business carrying a firearm into a 'family' restaurant andwe'll just have to be called back for a 'man with a gun' call here in a few minutes. You need to leave it in the car". He had left his CC permit at home by accident and was open carrying, as many on this board obviously try to promote.


I would thinkyou of all people, being an LEO would understandthis issue. Not all officers feel the way you do. BTW this is in Louisville, not central KY where you live.
 

superdemon

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chris in va wrote:
The bolded text amuses me greatly.

You know, when uneducated people see you carrying your weapon OC, they are asking, "Why is it necessary for him to walk around in a movie theater with a gun?"

Learn empathy, my friend,you are pushing the boundaries of being a hypocrit here..



No need to be on the offensive and slap my wrist with a ruler, I come from the VA area and this is the first time I've seen a uniformed police officer patrolling a movie theater. Saw the same thing over in Indiana by the Bass Pro Shops.

I was trying to figure out if there have been numerous fights or gang activity to warrant a police presence complete with two LEO-only parking spaces. Doesn't seem to be in a 'bad' part of town. I have no issue with the practice.
Besides, if you are an honest, law-abiding citizen, why do you have aproblem with police presence



Because more often than not, the LEO's I've run into over the past few years do NOT feel a citizen should be carrying a weapon and I've witnessed a trio of LEO's harassing a friend of mine for carrying legally into a Denny's at 11pm. They stated "you have no business carrying a firearm into a 'family' restaurant andwe'll just have to be called back for a 'man with a gun' call here in a few minutes. You need to leave it in the car". He had left his CC permit at home by accident and was open carrying, as many on this board obviously try to promote.


I would thinkyou of all people, being an LEO would understandthis issue. Not all officers feel the way you do. BTW this is in Louisville, not central KY where you live.


Not trying to slap anyone on the wrist. That's not my job, even when I am in uniform. Just trying to show you the parallel, but opposite side you were posting. Don't take me holding a mirror up to you as being hostile. And you did, cleary, say you thought it shouldn't be done on the government clock, so you did have "issues" with the practice.

Trust me, as an LEO, I do understand the issue, and I find that some of the people on this board not only do not understand OC, but don't understand basic law enforcement, either.

I OC all the time. Whether I am in my community, where I am fairly well-known, or outside of my community. I have never, ever been "harassed" by an LEO for OC. I think there are some reasons why...

1. I don't dress like a thug.

-First impressions are everything. No matter how much smooth talking you do, if someone thinks you are a thug, it's going to be hard to get it out of their heads.

2. I don't act like a thug.

-Lots and lots of "Please", "Thank you", "Ma'am", and "Sir" Hold the door for women and older folks. I have even had an elderly lady at Wal-Mart tell her husband, "That man with the gun was SO nice" after I picked up a 10 pound bag of dog food for her.

3. I cut my hair intoa high-and-tight every 5 days.

4. I don't OC in places where it wouldn't be appropriate, such as a high-end restaurant. (Those are the times for CC)

-We must consider our overall appearance, and whether is fits in to the enviroment to which we are going. Going to Logans Roadhouse for some ribs? Fine to OC. Going to Bella Notte for a romantic dinner? Best to CC.

5. I smile and explain that it is perfectly legal when it does get noticed.

-THIS IS THE BIG ONE. Guys, I know your right to OC means a lot to you, as it does me, but that in-your-face-it's-my-goddurned-right-and-I'll-do-it-when-I-wanna attitude does neither you nor I any favors. Not long ago, a guy started a thread in here where he suggested an OC meet in Lexington, because, "There are a lot of libs (liberals,I suppose)up there that need to be educated". I was blown away. That is exactly what I am talking about. If you choose to OC, do it as an act of exercising a right. NOT AS AN ATTEMPT TO INTENTIONALLY PISS PEOPLE OFF!! Are we in middle school here? Those are the types of people who shouldn't be carrying at all.

Here's another thing, the LEO side of things...

Just like I pointed out that your question about the cops beingat the movieswas congruent to people wondering why you would carry a gun to the movies.

Obviously, SOMEONE justified the fiscal expenditures to have not only the LEOs there, but the dedicated parking there. When I see a place that has dedicated parkingfor two units, I automatically think that for some reason, there isjustification forup to 4units to be in the area. A thug might think the same thing, and take his hunt for trouble somewhere else, even if there are no cruisers in the spots. It can be that powerful... "4cops could show up just to be there? I'll take my thug ass somewhere else."

And lets go this route...Lets say there was one precipitating event that happened. We will say someone was stabbed in a fight in the lobby of the theater. I guarantee the first thing the citizenry (read that as the family of the thug that was stabbed)shouted was"Why weren't there any cops there?" Ok, so the patrol captain or the chief responds by putting unitsthere on concentratedenforcement/patrol. Now people like you walk in, like you, and being unaware ofthe precipitating event, wonder why the cops are there, and say things like it's a waste of taxpayer money, when in fact, it is far cheaper to saturate an area with patrol rather that respond and clean up the mess after the fact.

That is the dichotomy of law enforcement. No one wants cops around until something happens, but then they scream that we should have been there all along when it does happen.I'm not complaining, as the average person has no idea what random patrol means or is. (See the "Kansas City Study" for an in-depth answer.)

And another thing, your story about your buddy in theDenny's...again,I can never, never understand people that 'forget' their IDor CC permit at home, but remember their gun. The permit goes with the gun. They should always be together, or the permit should always be on your person,so you don't have to remember it if you grab your weapon heading out the door. If you want to be a responsible citizen, and carry OC or even CC, it starts with the basics, and that means making sure you have the paperwork before you grab the weapon and strap it on. That is "Responsible Citizenry 101" No excuses accepted.I never drive without my license, I never leave the house without ID, and I never carry without my police ID.
 

superdemon

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Besides, you are confusing the issue. The title of your thread makes it appear that no firearms are allowed in the cinema, when the sign clearly said (according to your very post) that concealed firearms were prohibitied.
 

chris in va

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I'm not confusing anything. The sign had a gun with a line through it as I pointed out in the original post. That tells me visually they don't want firearms in the building. The wording below expounded on the KY code which apparently doesn't jive with what they're trying to accomplish.

I was merely trying to determine if it's simply in the BAR area (which seems a little out of place to me, in a movie theater) or the whole building. Again, I'll try and contact the manager and report back.
3. I cut my hair intoa high-and-tight every 5 days

No offense, but that's why people don't question you. They automatically think you're LEO, military or other official. Us average Joe's don't shave like we're fresh o ut of the Marines and have to get the evil eye from Mrs. Smith in WalMart every time we want to pick up some groceries.


"There are a lot of libs (liberals,I suppose)up there that need to be educated". I was blown away. That is exactly what I am talking about. If you choose to OC, do it as an act of exercising a right. NOT AS AN ATTEMPT TO INTENTIONALLY PISS PEOPLE OFF!! Are we in middle school here? Those are the types of people who shouldn't be carrying at all.




May want to check out the VCDL and all they've done for OC in Virginia. They don't do it to 'piss people off', but to educate the general public of the right to carry openly. I suspect the people in Lexington were doing the same thing.
And you did, cleary, say you thought it shouldn't be done on the government clock, so you did have "issues" with the practice

I didn't say that, someone else did. Clearly.

Now look, I have ZERO problems with a police presence in a crowded area. Zero. As a matter of fact the guy in Indiana was in sweats with 'Police' written on the back. You could barely see his holster poking out the bottom, and I thought that was very tastefully done. What I *was* trying to figure out is what sort of events happened at a movie theater (of all places) that requires two dedicated 'Police Detail' spots right up front. In other words, did something go down at that nice place like a shooting or gang activity?

My friend worked at a Days Inn as a night auditor. Friday and Saturday nights/mornings, a plainclothes detail officer would sit with her and basically keepcompany for five hours, occasionally doing a walkaround for any suspicious activity. But they had a damn good reason, that place had drug deals, prostitution, shady characters breezing in at 3am etc etc.We had a thug looking guy come in one time, and I saw our LEO friend reach for his concealed Glock, waiting. Fortunately nothing happened.

Oh, as for my friend that forgot his CC permit, it was in his wallet that he accidentally left at home and didn't discover it missing until he got out of his car. Again, it was an accident. He's not a robot, but a human being that makes mistakes. He decided to OBEY THE LAW and open carry. LEO's gave him s**t for doing that.
 

superdemon

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Yes, I did confuse who said they might have issues with LEOs being in the theater on the clock.

My mistake, and my apologies.

Again, though, no matter where the CC permit is, it should be placed on the person before the gun is placed on the person.


The title of your post implies that no firearms were allowed in the theater, when the sign only (attempted) to deal with concealed firearms.


And I stand by my assertion that the Lexington OC event was meant to be a childish, in-your-face confrontation with"libs". Unless they plan on handing out literature, holding a rights seminar or some such, that is exactly what was implied in the post.
 

chris in va

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I just called the Showcase Cinema de Lux 16 manager. I was polite and asked if he could clarify the sign on the front door. He said it's corporate policy for all the theaters to not allow firearms, not just in the bar area. Pointing out the subsection cited only deals with permit revocations, he said it's something the company came up with and he has no further knowledge about the policy.

So there you have it, they don't allow firearms at all. I suspected as much but wanted to be sure.
 
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