Showcase Cinemas in Louisville...no firearms?

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superdemon wrote:

snip.....
And another thing, your story about your buddy in theDenny's...again,I can never, never understand people that 'forget' their IDor CC permit at home, but remember their gun. The permit goes with the gun. They should always be together, or the permit should always be on your person,so you don't have to remember it if you grab your weapon heading out the door. If you want to be a responsible citizen, and carry OC or even CC, it starts with the basics, and that means making sure you have the paperwork before you grab the weapon and strap it on. That is "Responsible Citizenry 101" No excuses accepted.I never drive without my license, I never leave the house without ID, and I never carry without my police ID.

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"The permit goes with the gun" flies in the face of the RKBA and is an anti OC statement as I have ever read. Were it necessary to have a permit to OC I would concur for reasons of legality but where it is legal to OC without a permit such comments revert to "haf your paperz with zou at all times." Totally unacceptable.

Please do not lecture me on the "convenience" of having a permit to molify the sensibilities of others. Why else would a permit be needed/suggested for otherwise legal OC? In your words so that I could conceal when there is a possibility that I might chose to enter a nicer more up scale establishment. Please! Maybe my permit should be available if I am challanged on my mode of carry?

IMO - a close relative to LEO bashing is a LEO lecturing fellow citizens with their opinions beyond the requirements of the law. Neither act is is well received.

I appreciate the work that you do and your willingness to participate in OC and posting here on OCDO. Your insight can be invalueable; nevertheless, it requires you to wear two hats at the same time - a difficult task at best.

Yata hey

Edited to fix typo.

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"I've witnessed a trio of LEO's harassing a friend of mine for carrying legally into a Denny's at 11pm. They stated "you have no business carrying a firearm into a 'family' restaurant andwe'll just have to be called back for a 'man with a gun' call here in a few minutes. You need to leave it in the car"."

OK... Open Carry does not require the presence of the CC ticket... altho I carry mine around in my wallet withe the rest of the stuff... Drivers License, Military ID (ret), Insurance cards... Credit card. The 'friend' was openly bearing a sidearm under full faith and force of the Constitution.

"You have no business..." "You need to..." Well... 'seems these particular LEO's need to go back to CJ101.Was Denny's 'posted'? No. '...andwe'll just have to be called back for a 'man with a gun' call here..." Are 911 operators sufficiently aware that OC of firearms in KY is permitted... and savvy enuff to ask: "Where is the gun and what is the bearer doing with it?" If/when holstered this is a legitimate occurance. Have a nice day. G'Bye!"

All of the above statements by these LEO's are personal opinions and projections given under color of law. If there is an argument... by the bearer... The bearer risks Disorderly Conduct - Failure To Obey arrest and siezure of his firearm. The LEO's are aware of this and see themselves as defenders of the realm... promoting peace and 'order' as they understand it. Problem is... they failed to understand it.

In that failure they initiated a confrontational situation with a citizen in his lawful exercise of a personal Right. Power trip? Maybe. Were these LEO's armed? Probably. (I assume they would be.) Your 'friend' had just as much 'business' carrying a firearm into a 'family restaurant' as they did... and for the same reason. The weapon is 'not' a badge of office. That's ontheir shirt. They are not permitted to disarm themselves by departmental policy.Citizensare not 'required' to disarm themselves by departmental'opinion'.

"...leave it in the car". Thereby abandoning personal control and responibility of a firearm by leaving it in an unattended vehicle. Which vehicle would be easily targeted by anyone in that restaurant observing 'your friend' returning the weapon to the vehicle.Thus, actually creating a potentially dangerous situation.

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

"I've witnessed a trio of LEO's harassing a friend of mine for carrying legally into a Denny's at 11pm. They stated "you have no business carrying a firearm into a 'family' restaurant andwe'll just have to be called back for a 'man with a gun' call here in a few minutes. You need to leave it in the car"."

OK... Open Carry does not require the presence of the CC ticket... altho I carry mine around in my wallet withe the rest of the stuff... Drivers License, Military ID (ret), Insurance cards... Credit card. The 'friend' was openly bearing a sidearm under full faith and force of the Constitution.

"You have no business..." "You need to..." Well... 'seems these particular LEO's need to go back to CJ101.Was Denny's 'posted'? No. '...andwe'll just have to be called back for a 'man with a gun' call here..." Are 911 operators sufficiently aware that OC of firearms in KY is permitted... and savvy enuff to ask: "Where is the gun and what is the bearer doing with it?" If/when holstered this is a legitimate occurance. Have a nice day. G'Bye!"

All of the above statements by these LEO's are personal opinions and projections given under color of law. If there is an argument... by the bearer... The bearer risks Disorderly Conduct - Failure To Obey arrest and siezure of his firearm. The LEO's are aware of this and see themselves as defenders of the realm... promoting peace and 'order' as they understand it. Problem is... they failed to understand it.

In that failure they initiated a confrontational situation with a citizen in his lawful exercise of a personal Right. Power trip? Maybe. Were these LEO's armed? Probably. (I assume they would be.) Your 'friend' had just as much 'business' carrying a firearm into a 'family restaurant' as they did... and for the same reason. The weapon is 'not' a badge of office. That's ontheir shirt. They are not permitted to disarm themselves by departmental policy.Citizensare not 'required' to disarm themselves by departmental'opinion'.

"...leave it in the car". Thereby abandoning personal control and responibility of a firearm by leaving it in an unattended vehicle. Which vehicle would be easily targeted by anyone in that restaurant observing 'your friend' returning the weapon to the vehicle.Thus, actually creating a potentially dangerous situation.

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And again, and again....

In reference to the huge text...

The "responsibility" starts with making sure you have all your requirements in order. Again, I am dumbstruck by the number of people who "forget" their id, license, permits, etc, but they never forget the gun.

With the extent of rectal/cranial inversion people seem to be afflicted with these days, most people never notice the fact that you are OCing. He could have quietly entered the rest., had a meal, and left without anyone ever noticing. If he was polite, quiet, and completely sober, I bet no one would have ever noticed.

Again, the "right" to OC when compared with the "is it a good idea to OC right now" question must constantly be addressed by the person doing the OC.

The reason the LEOs wanted to just be done with the call, is they knew they might have to come back in response to a citizen call, AND THERE WERE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS THEY COULD BE DOING, like dealing with actual criminals.

They didn't tell him it was illegal, just a bad idea. You want the police off your back? Then quit giving us reason to get out with you. That includes responding to stupid citizen complaints about you. I'm not saying don't OC, but if you could remedy the situation by REMEMBERING YOUR CCDW WHEN YOU CARRY.

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superdemon wrote:

snip.......
Again, the "right" to OC when compared with the "is it a good idea to OC right now" question must constantly be addressed by the person doing the OC.

The reason the LEOs wanted to just be done with the call, is they knew they might have to come back in response to a citizen call, AND THERE WERE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS THEY COULD BE DOING, like dealing with actual criminals.

They didn't tell him it was illegal, just a bad idea. You want the police off your back? Then quit giving us reason to get out with you. That includes responding to stupid citizen complaints about you. I'm not saying don't OC, but if you could remedy the situation by REMEMBERING YOUR CCDW WHEN YOU CARRY.

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Superdemon, I agree with many of your posts and appreciate your perspective (I really do); however, in this you're less than accurate.

Why would I need my permit, or drivers license or any other form of ID when OCing?
Does Kentucky have a stop & identify law when no RAS of a crime is in evidence?
Why would a LEO even talk to someone OCing if they were peacefully going about their business?

IMO the "stupid citizen" making the complaint should be lectured not the legal OCer.
Don't want to be tied up on unnecessary MWAG calls - then thank the OCer for being responsible and leave. Better yet, have the dispatcher make the determination where possible.

Your frustration is showing. Putting personal opinions aside - it is the law.

Yata hey

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superdemon wrote:

The "responsibility" starts with making sure you have all your requirements in order. Again, I am dumbstruck by the number of people who "forget" their id, license, permits, etc, but they never forget the gun.

I'm not saying don't OC, but if you could remedy the situation by REMEMBERING YOUR CCDW WHEN YOU CARRY.

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Good thing we don't have to have all of our "requirements in order" while walking around OC in my state! All I need to legally OC are my gun and clothes (and the clothes are arguably optional to an extent ).

"I am dumbstruck", by the recurring many hold that some sort of paperwork or permit is required to openly carry a firearm.

Remedy what situation? OC? OC is a "situation"? Remedy it by concealing? What? I hope you aren't talking about the Denny's incident.

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diesel556 wrote:

superdemon wrote:

The "responsibility" starts with making sure you have all your requirements in order. Again, I am dumbstruck by the number of people who "forget" their id, license, permits, etc, but they never forget the gun.

I'm not saying don't OC, but if you could remedy the situation by REMEMBERING YOUR CCDW WHEN YOU CARRY.

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Good thing we don't have to have all of our "requirements in order" while walking around OC in my state! All I need to legally OC are my gun and clothes (and the clothes are arguably optional to an extent ).

"I am dumbstruck", by the recurring many hold that some sort of paperwork or permit is required to openly carry a firearm.

Remedy what situation? OC? OC is a "situation"? Remedy it by concealing? What? I hope you aren't talking about the Denny's incident.

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I realize that my post was unclear...

There are no "requirements" for OC in KY other than common sense. When I spoke of his "requirements", I meant the carrying of the CCDW permit so that he could carry CC.

The "situation" was finding himself in public with a weapon, but without his CCDW permit, thus having to switch to OC to be in compliance with the law.

My apologies for the garbled post.

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superdemon wrote:

I realize that my post was unclear...

There are no "requirements" for OC in KY other than common sense. When I spoke of his "requirements", I meant the carrying of the CCDW permit so that he could carry CC.

The "situation" was finding himself in public with a weapon, but without his CCDW permit, thus having to switch to OC to be in compliance with the law.

My apologies for the garbled post.

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No apologies necessary! Thanks for the clarification.

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diesel556 wrote:

superdemon wrote:

I realize that my post was unclear...

There are no "requirements" for OC in KY other than common sense. When I spoke of his "requirements", I meant the carrying of the CCDW permit so that he could carry CC.

The "situation" was finding himself in public with a weapon, but without his CCDW permit, thus having to switch to OC to be in compliance with the law.

My apologies for the garbled post.

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No apologies necessary! Thanks for the clarification.

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From that perspective it makes perfect sense. Appreciate it.

Yata hey