Detained/Harased by Las Vegas MPD on The Strip during my New Year's trip

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I posted the full details in the Nevada state forum:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum36/20477.html

Please post any comments you might have there. As a resident of Arizona, all I can say is that I love this state and I can't imagine a similar incident happening here.

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Wow! For as much crap as people give Arizona about not being the best state to carry in, you sure don't read stories like that from here.

If you're planning to pursue anything, I hope it works out for you.

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so your an attorney? how are you going to go about this situation?

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'You go lookin' for provocation and you'll get it... Even in AZ. 'Dunno where you're from originally... but Grandstanding/Showboating will get you that kind of attention.

I believe that was yourintent/agenda to begin with... the empty holster 'bait'. I have no sympathy for the result of your actions in that environment. If you choose to carry a weapon for self defense. Do so where permitted. There's no need for all the theatrical 'statements. I'd suggestleaving the rest of those 'toys' at home as well... They (LVPD) profiled you as a goof. Rightly so.

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

'You go lookin' for provocation and you'll get it... Even in AZ. 'Dunno where you're from originally... but Grandstanding/Showboating will get you that kind of attention.

I believe that was yourintent/agenda to begin with... the empty holster 'bait'. I have no sympathy for the result of your actions in that environment. If you choose to carry a weapon for self defense. Do so where permitted. There's no need for all the theatrical 'statements. I'd suggestleaving the rest of those 'toys' at home as well... They (LVPD) profiled you as a goof. Rightly so.

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He was not grandstanding, neither was he "showboating"...he was well within his rights to be doing what he did. If he had walked into a casino carrying an M16 with an attached M203 grenade launcher I could understand some concern--but not over an empty handgun holster--that is just absolutely pathetic.

The LVMPD should not be "profiling" at all. The LVMPD needs to understand what the term CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT means....

There is nothing that he carried that could be considered a toy--nearly all, if not all--as I did not read the entire list of things he carried--are legitimate tools of self-defense--just like a gun is....whether you like that or not. Could he have gotten by with only a couple items--a kubotan for close contact, and a handgun--sure...but a taser is just as a legitimate tool as anything....

As for a "goof"--I say the same thing about most police who view us the people as the enemy of the state.

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I agree with Sonora. If yougo out looking for troubleit willsurely find you.

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Silly Rabbit, tricks are for kids.

Let's be frank, shall we?

You weren't trying to make a statement. You're a wannabe looking for attention.

Handcuffs? Over-the-top nutjob, you are. Metro may or may not have trampled your rights but this doesn't change that you are a poser, an attention whore.

If anything, all you did was serve to make another case for those who argue that the public can't be trusted to excercise good judgement.

All that education and you still don't have the common sense of a cinder block. it just proves again that common sense cannot be taught.







Cheers.

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

'You go lookin' for provocation and you'll get it... Even in AZ. 'Dunno where you're from originally... but Grandstanding/Showboating will get you that kind of attention.

I believe that was yourintent/agenda to begin with... the empty holster 'bait'. I have no sympathy for the result of your actions in that environment. If you choose to carry a weapon for self defense. Do so where permitted. There's no need for all the theatrical 'statements. I'd suggestleaving the rest of those 'toys' at home as well... They (LVPD) profiled you as a goof. Rightly so.

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An empty holster is not always 'bait' for LEO... I OC 100% of the time I can legally do so and the few places I cannot here, I secure my weapon and go in.. I am not going to pull my holster every time as it is a pain in the butt.. as well as the attention I have gotten from curious folks as to what I carry and what the law is.. I have passed out a lot of flyers on 2A and OC here just from the people who noticed my empty holster and asked..

I also hold that non-lethal backups and even cuffs if you feel the need are not unnecessarily over the top. If I am in a place which bans guns.. I subdue a BG by non-lethal measures.. now what.. oh yea.. the cuffs. Cuz he sure won't be respecting my authority without a firearm..

All I am saying is do not be so quick to judge anothers means just because you would not do things their way.. I base my carry practices on where I will be and what I will be doing..

I tell you what, I use whatever tools I can best figure, cuz this short fat redneck sure ain't gonna rely on his ninja skills.. Chris Farley makes me look good.. hehe..

Rev. J

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It would seem that the OP has set up the 1983 slam-dunk of all time. I hope he wins many jackpots.

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Obviously many are indulging in fantasy heroics scenarios. Most of 'em (here) not Arizonans used to OC as a matter of course and reason.

Example: "If I am in a place which bans guns.. I subdue a BG by non-lethal measures.. now what.. oh yea.. the cuffs. Cuz he sure won't be respecting my authority without a firearm.."

Really? :what:

(Insert mental image of caped crusader... pick one.)

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I am with the others here and what they have said. I believe carrying a weapon is very serious and don't want us all to lose those rights. I believe grandstanding or causing a scene gives us that are law abiding and OC or conceal carry a bad wrap. Personally I can't blame the cops for investigation you at all. Wonder if the cops could sue you for waisting there time?

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If you are an out-of-state resident traveling in or through Clark County, you have to register your weapon with the police department within 24 hours. This is just for Clark County.

Las Vegas is a stupid, stupid place. I have never understood why anyone would want to go there, especially with the majesty and freedom of the Great Basin lying not far beyond.

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Crossfire Jedi wrote:

I am with the others here and what they have said.  I believe carrying a weapon is very serious and don't want us all to lose those rights.  I believe grandstanding or causing a scene gives us that are law abiding and OC or conceal carry a bad wrap.  Personally I can't blame the cops for investigation you at all.  Wonder if the cops could sue you for waisting there time?

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I disagree entirely. If we lose our rights it will be because no one stood up for them, not because someone stood too tall.
Grandstanding,causing a scene? Aren't we all here because we want to continue/pursue the right to open carry? Guess what, most of the anti-OC people use the exact same logic as in this thread to say we shouldn't be able to do that because it is "causing a scene". Using a right is not causing a scene.
Even if it was, maybe sometimes you have to "cause a scene" to bring attention to the issues you care about, so that other people can see them. I guess you think Ghandi was "causing a scene" by making illegal salt, and leading marches. That big "show boater" John Hancock was a real idiot with his super big signature.

If more people would do what he did, I believe our rights would be better protected, not worse. Do you also think that empty holster protests at colleges are show boating? Is just openly carrying a pistol showboating?

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mkl wrote:

Crossfire Jedi wrote:

I am with the others here and what they have said. I believe carrying a weapon is very serious and don't want us all to lose those rights. I believe grandstanding or causing a scene gives us that are law abiding and OC or conceal carry a bad wrap. Personally I can't blame the cops for investigation you at all. Wonder if the cops could sue you for waisting there time?

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I disagree entirely. If we lose our rights it will be because no one stood up for them, not because someone stood too tall.
Grandstanding,causing a scene? Aren't we all here because we want to continue/pursue the right to open carry? Guess what, most of the anti-OC people use the exact same logic as in this thread to say we shouldn't be able to do that because it is "causing a scene". Using a right is not causing a scene.
Even if it was, maybe sometimes you have to "cause a scene" to bring attention to the issues you care about, so that other people can see them. I guess you think Ghandi was "causing a scene" by making illegal salt, and leading marches. That big "show boater" John Hancock was a real idiot with his super big signature.

If more people would do what he did, I believe our rights would be better protected, not worse. Do you also think that empty holster protests at colleges are show boating? Is just openly carrying a pistol showboating?

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Ai-ai-ai.... Do you quite comprehend that the guy was NOT carrying... nor attempting to carry for self defensive purposes? Have you ever been in 'Vegas? Or any of the casino's? Do you understand at all the dynamic of the security situation? Empty holster = implied gun... somewhere?Where is the gun? Loose gun? Who has the gun? Where is the gun? This is not an instance of 'Rights'... it's a grandstand for attention... by a goof. There are hordes ofgoofs in 'Vegas. The goof in question is a New Yorker...

This is NOT the east coast... or Virginia. The closer y'all get to DC the crazier it gets. 'Must be the water.

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

?

Ai-ai-ai.... Do you quite comprehend that the guy was NOT carrying... nor attempting to carry for self defensive purposes? Have you ever been in 'Vegas? Or any of the casino's? Do you understand at all the dynamic of the security situation? Empty holster = implied gun... somewhere?Where is the gun? Loose gun? Who has the gun? Where is the gun? This is not an instance of 'Rights'... it's a grandstand for attention... by a goof. There are hordes ofgoofs in 'Vegas. The goof in question is a New Yorker...

This is NOT the east coast... or Virginia. The closer y'all get to DC the crazier it gets. 'Must be the water.

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If the casino wanted to ask him to leave, that is fine, it is private property after all.

You seem to think that I have to give up my rights to enter a state because of the casinos they have there or what? I'm not sure what location has to do with this at all. OC is legal. Wearing a holster with a gun in it is legal. Wearing a holster without a gun is legal. Don't OC participants frequently promote the idea that the police should not detain anyone that is doing a legal act?

I'm not sure how you determine what is a "grandstand for attention" and what is "activism for the second ammendment". To me this was activism. If you don't want to support activism, you don't have to participate, but to slam the people who do is not very supportive.

To me...this could be potentially a good example of activism. People used to get the same treatment in VA over opencarrying, but as people OC'ed, the harrassment got less and less until it is barely an issue anymore.

If in Nevada right now it is legal to OC but you will get harrassed, you have to start somewhere. Maybe that somewhere is to OC an empty holster as a political statement, and when the police/casinos get used to that...take the next step and OC a pistol.

It boils down to, a right un-used is a right denied. The right to OC is currently being denied in Vegas. This guy is doing activism to potentially make the situation better and people here are slamming him for it. With that attitude, don't expect anything to change in that arena. You have to work for freedom to get freedom, you don't get it by posting all day on the internet slamming people with the courage to do activism.

Maybe we are crazy here in Virginia, but we don't get harrassed nearly as much about OC because of the people who came before us who did activism. Crazy? Crazy about freedom maybe. May your chains rest lightly upon you.



Your personal insults add nothing to this conversation, neither does your condescending attitude.





"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." —Samuel Adams

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yea cops hate when people try to make any political statement like this.



I specially love the tool who could not take his firearm into the restaurant because he will be drinking. but he keeps his shoulder holster on him because he wanted the attention.


this was a post from a LEO from another forum (when i was trying to make an OC point) i cant say that i disagree with him it is kind of stupid carrying around an empty holster but i do understand the point they were trying to make. either way its probly more hassle then its worth, thats why i got out of CA to come to a more reasonable state.

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mkl wrote:

If the casino wanted to ask him to leave, that is fine, it is private property after all.

You seem to think that I have to give up my rights to enter a state because of the casinos they have there or what? I'm not sure what location has to do with this at all. OC is legal. Wearing a holster with a gun in it is legal. Wearing a holster without a gun is legal. Don't OC participants frequently promote the idea that the police should not detain anyone that is doing a legal act?

I'm not sure how you determine what is a "grandstand for attention" and what is "activism for the second ammendment". To me this was activism. If you don't want to support activism, you don't have to participate, but to slam the people who do is not very supportive.

To me...this could be potentially a good example of activism. People used to get the same treatment in VA over opencarrying, but as people OC'ed, the harrassment got less and less until it is barely an issue anymore.

If in Nevada right now it is legal to OC but you will get harrassed, you have to start somewhere. Maybe that somewhere is to OC an empty holster as a political statement, and when the police/casinos get used to that...take the next step and OC a pistol.

It boils down to, a right un-used is a right denied. The right to OC is currently being denied in Vegas. This guy is doing activism to potentially make the situation better and people here are slamming him for it. With that attitude, don't expect anything to change in that arena. You have to work for freedom to get freedom, you don't get it by posting all day on the internet slamming people with the courage to do activism.

Maybe we are crazy here in Virginia, but we don't get harrassed nearly as much about OC because of the people who came before us who did activism. Crazy? Crazy about freedom maybe. May your chains rest lightly upon you.



Your personal insults add nothing to this conversation, neither does your condescending attitude.





"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." —Samuel Adams

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This is the ARIZONA forum. I have carried a gun openly since before you arrived on this planet. Do NOT presume to lecture me on my attitude. This was percieved as a public safety issue by the casino. They are in the entertainment business... not the activist business. Do that on the street... not in their place of business. Fanatics of any stripe are problematic with these kinds of theatrics. I carry for self defense. Not 'statements'. The casino people and LVPD protect their economic interests and the 'peace' of their tourist patrons. The handcuffs 'n the rest of it amplify the immature stupidity of the 'act'. You sound like the liberals who will not entertain any opinion but the one they want to hear. When you grow up... you'll understand.

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

This is the ARIZONA forum. I have carried a gun openly since before you arrived on this planet. Do NOT presume to lecture me on my attitude. This was percieved as a public safety issue by the casino. They are in the entertainment business... not the activist business. Do that on the street... not in their place of business. Fanatics of any stripe are problematic with these kinds of theatrics. I carry for self defense. Not 'statements'. The casino people and LVPD protect their economic interests and the 'peace' of their tourist patrons. The handcuffs 'n the rest of it amplify the immature stupidity of the 'act'. You sound like the liberals who will not entertain any opinion but the one they want to hear. When you grow up... you'll understand.

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You didn't read my post, I have no problem with the casino kicking ANYONE out, for ANY reason. It is private property. So take the entire casino aspect out. It doesn't matter to me what they did, it was on their property. All of the stuff that happend OUTSIDE of the casino, with the police, is what I have been discussing.


You continue with your condescensionand presumptive attitude. You don't know me. Stopping making these assumptions. "When I grow up"? Maybe you should reflect on your posts and realize that calling people names and putting people down for the ages (which you don't even know) is not constructive and only serves to make yourself appear foolish. None of your attacks have anything to do with the discussion at hand.

"who will not entertain any opinion but the one they want to hear".

Do you actually perceive yourself as any different? At least I only refuse to entertain an opinion (according to you), you not only refuse to entertain another opinion, but then proceed past that to personal attacks, insults, and presumption of seniority. As if age was the only qualifier on this planet for being correct.

" When you grow up... you'll understand."

When I grow up (ha), I hope IDON'T "understand" if it means having the same attitude that you have grown into.


How about we ditch the attitude and anger, and discuss this like the two reasonable adults that we are?

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This guy is doing activism to potentially make the situation better and people here are slamming him for it. With that attitude, don't expect anything to change in that arena. You have to work for freedom to get freedom, you don't get it by posting all day on the internet slamming people with the courage to do activism.

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I really don't understand your defense of someone who is causing undue attention by grandstanding? The fact is, this is the ARIZONA forum, not to be rude but this junk is being posted on the ARIZONA forum site and we are not expected to respond? Then we are supposed to back him up for doing something that is clearly dumb? He knew what he was doing, and obviously hoped he would be seen. That's grandstanding...for what reason? Do you really believe that grandstanding will help change laws? What it does do however is grab attention from those that should be focused on the bad guys. There are many ways to work for freedom, there are other ways to make us all law abiding citizens look like idiots.

--------Local Arizona Forums----------

http://www.xboxjedi.com/defense

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Crossfire Jedi wrote:

This guy is doing activism to potentially make the situation better and people here are slamming him for it. With that attitude, don't expect anything to change in that arena. You have to work for freedom to get freedom, you don't get it by posting all day on the internet slamming people with the courage to do activism.

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I really don't understand your defense of someone who is causing undue attention by grandstanding? The fact is, this is the ARIZONA forum, not to be rude but this junk is being posted on the ARIZONA forum site and we are not expected to respond? Then we are supposed to back him up for doing something that is clearly dumb? He knew what he was doing, and obviously hoped he would be seen. That's grandstanding...for what reason? Do you really believe that grandstanding will help change laws? What it does do however is grab attention from those that should be focused on the bad guys. There are many ways to work for freedom, there are other ways to make us all law abiding citizens look like idiots.

--------Local Arizona Forums----------

http://www.xboxjedi.com/defense

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I guess we have a different idea of grandstanding. I did not say you could not respond, respond away. Just let's try and keep it respectful. We disagree, that is fine. We don't all have to agree.

I do believe what you think is "grandstanding" is how we have always achieved and kept our freedoms. If you just resign that you will never be able to OC in Vegas because you think any activismit is "grandstanding" you will never acheive it. Answer these question and maybe I will understand what your idea of grandstanding is.Was Ghandi grandstanding when he led the salt rebellion? Was John Hancock a "grandstander" for his signature size?Areall the activists all over the countrywho OC everyday to help change public opinion "grandstanders"? Are college kids who do empty holster protests "grandstanders"? To me all of theabove people are activists. We can disagree about what type of activism is the most effective. What do you think is a better idea to change public perception for OC besides actually OCing or OCing an empty holster?

" Do you really believe that grandstanding will help change laws?"

How do you think some states got the ability for people to relatively easily OC all over without harassment? By doing it. Virginia isn't easy to OC in because people did nothing, it's because a bunch of people DID it, and fought for their rights when people told them it was "grandstanding".

I do not live in Arizona, but I travel fairly frequently, so I am interested in my freedom in various places that I like to go to.