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Thread: Anyone else see this BS at the Gun Show Today?

  1. #1
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    Got there at about 11:30 AM and daw this BS at the Gate.

    Pissed me off so much I just turned around and went home.



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    Was it a private venue? If so, they were well within their rights.

    Gun shows attract stupid people, and stupid people do stupid things.

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    Pull the mag, clear the pipe.. now you are in accordance with the sign.. it does say "No Loaded Firearms"..

    We can call this California Carry..

    J

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    I find it funny that the only Negligent discharges at gun shows R coming from the dealers themselves..


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    To the best of my Knowlege it's state owned.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    This is true of all gun shows in Va. I believe their insurance regs require it.

    Enough guns and ammo in the immediate vicinity though to deter an aggressor.

    Never seen or heard of an active shooter choosing a gun show for his theatrics either.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Yes, it irritated me but I went anyway. No good buys that I could find. Sunday might be better.
    Chuck Norris/Ted Nugent That's the ticket for 2016!

  8. #8
    Regular Member UtahRSO's Avatar
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    Pretty well SOP at a lot of gun shows. Like the man said, pull mag, clear pipe, enjoy the show.

  9. #9
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    I thought the fair grounds were government owned.An earlier thread discussed this when the fair was going on, and I am quite sure thatwe got a responce indicating that this was correct. The new preemption law should eliminate this kind of stuff. Anyone know that is planning to go tomorrow?

  10. #10
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    The gun shows I've been to in PA require you to unload but have never asked that i turn it in, no do they take it and write down a serial number or anything invasive, they just want it unloaded.

    Doesn't bother me enough not to go.

  11. #11
    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    Don Quijote wrote:
    I thought the fair grounds were government owned.An earlier thread discussed this when the fair was going on, and I am quite sure thatwe got a responce indicating that this was correct. The new preemption law should eliminate this kind of stuff. Anyone know that is planning to go tomorrow?
    They may be publicly owned, but they are being leased to private parties and said private party (for the duration of the lease) is considered to be theproprietor for purposes of removing people for trespassing. If they catch you carrying loaded they can (and usually will) trespass you right out of their show.

    As others have pointed out, this is SOP at any of the gun shows at the Spokane County Fairgrounds and the folks who run the show you went to are the same folks who run the Spokane shows. Yes, it's sad, and yes, they can legally do that in both Idaho and Washington. EDIT: This also bypasses state pre-emption laws, since it's using private property instead.

    When I went to the show in Spokane and encountered an identical sign as in your photograph, I walked right up to the sign OC'ing and then stopped at the sign in full view of everyone, drew my pistol (pointed in a safe direction) dropped my magazine, cleared the chamber, locked the action open, re-holstered my pistol, and then kept walking.

    Some woman behind me made some comment to her husband that I was handling my gun in public and even drew it and her husband said "He's following the rules. There's nothing you can do about it."

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    shad0wfax wrote:
    This also bypasses state pre-emption laws, since it's using private property instead.
    Not in Idaho, Here it's a Violation of State Law for them to do that.

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    UtahRSO wrote:
    Like the man said, pull mag, clear pipe, enjoy the show.
    Not counting it much (if any) of a loss anyway, Heard the Prices were Really High on almost everything, bar for some Ammo Vendors.

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    The Washington Arms Collector (WAC) shows here in WA require the firearm to be empty AND the action ziptied. No full magazines allowed in either. I carry loose rounds in my pocket as well as a empty mag when I visit.
    The zipties are the soft poly ones. I can usually break them when I rack the slide on my 1911.

    The proces have gotten out of had with the Obama scare. I watched ammo prices start at $130 for 700rds of 7.62x39 jump to $230 5 hrs later. AK / AR weapons going for double and triple.... Its getting harder to find deals on weapons because none are willing to budge one bit..

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    The Washington Arms Collector (WAC) shows here in WA require the firearm to be empty AND the action ziptied
    That's the SOP at gun shows in the Phoenix/Tucson area. A desk is set up before the show entrance where personel ziptie your weapon after it's cleared and locked open.

    So far I've not heard anyone complain about it.

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    the sign was posted in violation of state law. A member here is working on getting the show manager and I believe a legal reprsentative from the county (?) to get this straightened up.

    Hopefully that member will post on this thread soon...

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    Funny enough, some officers with Ada county brought this up to me tonight when I saw them at work. They said they had heard about some "conflict" but wasn't sure about what the resolution was. These guys have been very supportive of me and OC in the past.

    Here is the original link to the fairgrounds stuff that happened before:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum20/15075.html

    Here is the important part and the resolution to the previous issue:

    I did write a letter to Idaho Expo the other day.

    Dear Sir or Ma'am,

    I am writing today to inquire as to what your policy is on the legal carry of firearms while attending the fair or other events held at the fairgrounds. According to Senate Bill NO. 1441, which passed and became law in March of this year, it is against the law for "any county, city, agency, board or any other political subdivision of this state to adopt or enforce any law, rule, regulation, or ordinance which regulates in any manner the sale, acquisition, transfer, ownership, possession, transportation, carrying or storage of firearms or any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition." Further information on this bill can be obtained at http://www3.state.id.us/oasis/S1441.html.

    As a subdivision of Ada County, do you intend to comply with this law and allow law abiding citizens to carry firearms for self-defense? I ask because I plan to attend the fair tomorrow night and want to avoid any confusion at the front gate. Thank you in advance for your understanding and timely response.

    Sincerely,
    *******

    RESPONSE

    ******,
    I am delivering your message to our security chief and he will get back to you today. However, you did not leave your phone number, which he will need. Thank you,


    Lori Cox, Marketing & Development
    Expo Idaho
    p) 208.287.5650
    Thanks a million to our 2008 Western Idaho Fair sponsors!


    AND THE SECOND RESPONSE

    Dear Mr. *****,

    Expo Idaho and Western Idaho Fair has always and will continue to respect the carrying of weapons as allocated by Senate Bill 1441 and the carrying of concealed weapons. Please advise Security Staff at your entrance gate that you are armed. Thank you.

    Most Sincerely,
    Patrick Calley 208.860.4071
    **************************************

    Ok, from how I understand it, the fairgrounds does not have the right to ban guns, therefore they can't lease that right away to a private party. Property rights exist in a "bundle", ie; water rights, soil rights, underground oil rights, leasing is a form of ownership of certain rights in this bundle, ect. If you don't have the right to do something in the first place, you can't lease or sell away that land right to anyone else.

    Those who had an issue, please call Patrick at the above number.


    On another note, the officers and I were talking about the Capital Mall area ban (government buildings downtown Boise). They seemed to agree that the Govenor didn't have the right to do that, and they were wondering when we are going to challenge it. Just a thought....

  18. #18
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    The Fairgrounds aka Expo Idaho are owned by Ada County and they cannot ban firearms from the premises as per state preemption.

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    Eagleeye wrote:
    shad0wfax wrote:
    This also bypasses state pre-emption laws, since it's using private property instead.
    Not in Idaho, Here it's a Violation of State Law for them to do that.
    I stand corrected (the same folks get away with it in WA). Can they simply refuse to sell you a ticket (or handstamp) to get in if you don't comply when you're OC'ing? (They obviously can't search you if you're CC'ing.)

    Good luck setting them straight on it.

  20. #20
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    I stand corrected (the same folks get away with it in WA). Can they simply refuse to sell you a ticket (or handstamp) to get in if you don't comply when you're OC'ing? (They obviously can't search you if you're CC'ing.)
    That may very well be. Being a private event, they may be able to deny access to you period, just because they don't like how you look or any other reason. However, that sign wouldn't be enforceable by any officer; you wouldn't be breaking any law by keeping your weapon on your hip, but you may be in violation of some sort of trespassing statute if asked to leave and you refused.
    My 2 cents...

  21. #21
    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    IndianaBoy79 wrote:
    [SNIP]you wouldn't be breaking any law by keeping your weapon on your hip, but you may be in violation of some sort of trespassing statute if asked to leave and you refused.
    My 2 cents...
    That's how they remove you in WA. They don't get you for a firearm violation, they remove you as a Civil or Criminal Trespass (if you arguewith them about it)for not complying with their rules as the lessee. That's what I was referring to in my post about how they're bypassing pre-emption (in WA) on county property leased to a private party.

    Others said that in ID they can't bypass pre-emption by enforcing trespass rules for firearmsin that matter on public property. I'm curious to see if this gets resolved.

  22. #22
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    It would really depend on what the laws are concerning public access to public land during a private event. If the private party can legally ask you to leave, then they can ask you to leave for any reason. Unless there is some law that forces them to be open to the public, then I would think they can ask you to leave. The difference between this and the actual fair is that the fair is a state sponsored event.

    At the store where I work, on private property, I can ask someone to leave for any reason, from the way you dress to the color of your skin, or because I'm in a bad mood or simply don't like you.

    Anyone know a property rights lawyer in the area? Is there some law or ordinance that forces them to be open to the public? Do I have a legal "right" to be there at the private event, or am I simply given "permission" to be there by the private party renting the grounds? If I have a right, can't deny my gun; if I only have permission, then they can kick me off.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    IndianaBoy79 wrote:
    snip.....
    At the store where I work, on private property, I can ask someone to leave for any reason, from the way you dress to the color of your skin, or because I'm in a bad mood or simply don't like you.
    Aaaaa. I don't think so, not without incurring potential liability.
    http://people.eku.edu/palmerj/319/Fe...and%20Laws.htm

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
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    Off topic, so I just sent you a PM.

  25. #25
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    Gun Shows have all sorts of people wandering around handling firearms. Not all of them adhire to the rules for handling weapons. In fact, some of them can be downright dangerous...



    Jeff Cooper had an Accidental/Negligent Discharge at the S.H.O.T. show one year handling an 'empty' display Steyr Scout Rifle...so I guess it can even happen to the best of us.



    I

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