Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
imported post
I'm all for defending our gun rights and working with lawmakers on this goal. I also think that if we bite off more than we can chew we may be hurting ourselves.
After talking with several members at the Flint lunch on Sunday it was decided that perhaps we should choose one law at a time. The statute that concerns MOC at this time is the confusion in the transport of a handgun statute. As you know we have a member that has been charged with a felony for illegal transport even though he followed the statute.
We need to convince lawmakers to amened this statute with clearer language so that this will not happen again. Short of that we need them to request an AG opinion on what is lawful transport.
I have written this as a draft of what we would like from an AG opinion.
Is this something our members can agree on? If so I recommend sending an email to your representatives advising them of our concerns. Comments????
Generally the confusion in this statute is two fold. First 750.227(2) Sec. 231a (2) b states “Lawful purpose” includes the following: [/b]The first confusion is that many law enforcement agencies define this to mean that these are the only lawful purpose allowed while transporting a lawful handgun. The Michigan State Police (MSP) interprets this to mean a few examples of some lawful purposes but is in no way the only lawful purposes*. Since the term “includes” is used the MSP interpretation is closest to the laws intent, as “includes” is defined to mean a partial list or a portion of a whole. Because of the disparity of interpretations arrests have been made for violating this statute when an officer believes some one has transported a handgun for a lawful purpose that fell outside of the examples given.
The Cambridge dictionary defines “includes” as a verb; To contain something as a part of something else, or to make something part of something else:[/b][/b]
[/b]
[/b]The second area of confusion is the term “en Route”.[/b] Some law enforcement agencies define this to mean a straight line to and from a destination with no detours or other stops between destinations. That is, straight from your home to a destination and straight back with no diversions. Other departments (MSP) have defined “en route” to mean the trip in it’s entirety and allows for many stops in the travel. Some Law enforcement officers have made arrests when it was found that a person deviated from a straight line, back and forth trip.
Question: Does the term “includes” when used in the statute mean some examples or does it mean all inclusive?
Question 2: Does the term “en route” mean a straight line or does it mean the travel in it’s entirety and doesn’t necessarily mean directly back and forth?
The Cambridge dictionary defines “en route” as an adverb; On the way to or from somewhere.[/b]
[/b]
[/b]The American Dictonary define “en route” as an adverb or adjective; On or along the way.
[/b]
[/b][/b]* Personal conversation with Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police Executive Resource Section, 714 S. Harrison Rd. East Lansing, MI 48823 (517) 336-6441
TRANSPORTING A HANDGUN:
750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions. (Edited in part)
Sec. 231a.
(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.
(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
(2) As used in this section:
(b) “Lawful purpose” includes the following:
(i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.
(ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.
(iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.
(iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed on the pistol as is required by section 9 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.429, or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.
(v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.
(vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
(vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
I'm all for defending our gun rights and working with lawmakers on this goal. I also think that if we bite off more than we can chew we may be hurting ourselves.
After talking with several members at the Flint lunch on Sunday it was decided that perhaps we should choose one law at a time. The statute that concerns MOC at this time is the confusion in the transport of a handgun statute. As you know we have a member that has been charged with a felony for illegal transport even though he followed the statute.
We need to convince lawmakers to amened this statute with clearer language so that this will not happen again. Short of that we need them to request an AG opinion on what is lawful transport.
I have written this as a draft of what we would like from an AG opinion.
Is this something our members can agree on? If so I recommend sending an email to your representatives advising them of our concerns. Comments????
Generally the confusion in this statute is two fold. First 750.227(2) Sec. 231a (2) b states “Lawful purpose” includes the following: [/b]The first confusion is that many law enforcement agencies define this to mean that these are the only lawful purpose allowed while transporting a lawful handgun. The Michigan State Police (MSP) interprets this to mean a few examples of some lawful purposes but is in no way the only lawful purposes*. Since the term “includes” is used the MSP interpretation is closest to the laws intent, as “includes” is defined to mean a partial list or a portion of a whole. Because of the disparity of interpretations arrests have been made for violating this statute when an officer believes some one has transported a handgun for a lawful purpose that fell outside of the examples given.
The Cambridge dictionary defines “includes” as a verb; To contain something as a part of something else, or to make something part of something else:[/b][/b]
[/b]
[/b]The second area of confusion is the term “en Route”.[/b] Some law enforcement agencies define this to mean a straight line to and from a destination with no detours or other stops between destinations. That is, straight from your home to a destination and straight back with no diversions. Other departments (MSP) have defined “en route” to mean the trip in it’s entirety and allows for many stops in the travel. Some Law enforcement officers have made arrests when it was found that a person deviated from a straight line, back and forth trip.
Question: Does the term “includes” when used in the statute mean some examples or does it mean all inclusive?
Question 2: Does the term “en route” mean a straight line or does it mean the travel in it’s entirety and doesn’t necessarily mean directly back and forth?
The Cambridge dictionary defines “en route” as an adverb; On the way to or from somewhere.[/b]
[/b]
[/b]The American Dictonary define “en route” as an adverb or adjective; On or along the way.
[/b]
[/b][/b]* Personal conversation with Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police Executive Resource Section, 714 S. Harrison Rd. East Lansing, MI 48823 (517) 336-6441
TRANSPORTING A HANDGUN:
750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions. (Edited in part)
Sec. 231a.
(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.
(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
(2) As used in this section:
(b) “Lawful purpose” includes the following:
(i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.
(ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.
(iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.
(iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed on the pistol as is required by section 9 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.429, or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.
(v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.
(vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
(vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
