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Thread: Gun goes off in Utah restroom, shatters toilet

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    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090114/...dd_toilet_shot
    CENTERVILLE, Utah – The man escaped with a few cuts to his arm, but the toilet made out much worse. Police say a man's gun fell out of its holster while he pulled up his pants after using the bathroom at a Carl's Jr. restaurant Tuesday. The gun fired when it hit the floor and shattered the commode.
    A few shards of porcelain cut the man's arm, and a woman in an adjacent restroom who was frightened by the noise reported she was having chest pain. Both people were checked at the scene and released.
    Police say they confiscated the 26-year-old man's firearm while they review the incident. The man had a concealed weapons permit. No charges are being filed.
    ___
    Information from: The Salt Lake Tribune, http://www.sltrib.com

    I wonder what gun it was that went off when it hit the floor, provided that's the whole story.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Chest pains? Jesus, what a bunch of wimps we have in America these days.

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    Already on the boards: unlucky loo...
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    srage10 wrote:

    A few shards of porcelain cut the man's arm, and a woman in an adjacent restroom who was frightened by the noise reported she was having chest pain. Both people were checked at the scene and released.

    Co-ed restrooms? Or did it really blow a piece of porcelain through a wall?



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    I read it as the man got the shrapnel. The women, in her own restroom, was only spooked by the gun going off.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    AWDstylez wrote:
    srage10 wrote:




    A few shards of porcelain cut the man's arm, and a woman in an adjacent restroom who was frightened by the noise reported she was having chest pain. Both people were checked at the scene and released.

    Co-ed restrooms? Or did it really blow a piece of porcelain through a wall?

    No, if you had any reading comprehension skills, you'd know that she was in the women's restroom, and she heard the shot through the wall and freaked out, cause she's a pansy. She got checked out because of "chest pain", not because of flying porcelain like the guy. Cripes, learn how to read. :?

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    compmanio365 wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    srage10 wrote:






    A few shards of porcelain cut the man's arm, and a woman in an adjacent restroom who was frightened by the noise reported she was having chest pain. Both people were checked at the scene and released.

    Co-ed restrooms? Or did it really blow a piece of porcelain through a wall?

    No, if you had any reading comprehension skills, you'd know that she was in the women's restroom, and she heard the shot through the wall and freaked out, cause she's a pansy. She got checked out because of "chest pain", not because of flying porcelain like the guy. Cripes, learn how to read. :?


    Missed the comma, grammar nanny. My apologies.

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    The article didn'tmention the age of the woman. She may have been an elderly person. They don't take to being startled, very well.

    The guys gun should not have been able to fall from it's holster in the first place. I suspect that he will have to pay for replacing the toilet.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:

    The guys gun should not have been able to fall from it's holster in the first place. I suspect that he will have to pay for replacing the toilet.
    That, and the embarrassment, should be enough to teach this guy to make sure that he keeps his gun secure. I also wonder what type of gun it was,most guns don't fire just by dropping them.

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    Gordie wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:

    The guys gun should not have been able to fall from it's holster in the first place. I suspect that he will have to pay for replacing the toilet.
    That, and the embarrassment, should be enough to teach this guy to make sure that he keeps his gun secure. I also wonder what type of gun it was,most guns don't fire just by dropping them.


    My money is on a 1911 with a lightened trigger (but it feels so good at the range) being carried cocked and "oops, saftey caught on the holster, butI thought it was locked".

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    2 Reasons to take your handgun out of holster when using a public restroom.

    1) When dropping trow I always take my 45 out and lay it on the TP dispenser because I don't want anything even my Levis touching the germ laden nasty wet floor, .

    2) I sat in the toilet at the local nation wide burger joint one day "doing the doo" , my attention was distracted to the stall next to me by an a loud " biolavial fricative"
    ( fart) and so I turned over to see a pair of pants down to the nasty floor from the underview screen partition next to me and I noticed a belt holstered Glock half laying on the nasty wet floor amongst a deflated pair of jeans.

    Moral of the story: If there was an anti sitting in my place instead of me, the anti would have seen Joe fart bottom's gun. But If the anti was sitting next to me he would only see an empty holster and no gun.

    I don't think any anti would call the cop's and say , "there is a man in the restroom with an empty holster", which would go out over the dispatch air as "a 5150 who is delusional" , .

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Gordie wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:

    The guys gun should not have been able to fall from it's holster in the first place. I suspect that he will have to pay for replacing the toilet.
    That, and the embarrassment, should be enough to teach this guy to make sure that he keeps his gun secure. I also wonder what type of gun it was,most guns don't fire just by dropping them.


    My money is on a 1911 with a lightened trigger (but it feels so good at the range) being carried cocked and "oops, saftey caught on the holster, butI thought it was locked".
    That would also require the grip safety to have been disabled as well. It would take someone with less knowledge about carrying firearms than Plaxico Burris to carry a 1911 in that condition.

    Your bias against anything1911 is showing through.

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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Gordie wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:

    The guys gun should not have been able to fall from it's holster in the first place. I suspect that he will have to pay for replacing the toilet.
    That, and the embarrassment, should be enough to teach this guy to make sure that he keeps his gun secure. I also wonder what type of gun it was,most guns don't fire just by dropping them.


    My money is on a 1911 with a lightened trigger (but it feels so good at the range) being carried cocked and "oops, saftey caught on the holster, butI thought it was locked".
    http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705277512,00.html


    It happened Tuesday at the Carl's Jr. restaurant at 385 N. 800 West. Police said the 26-year-old man had gone into the bathroom to use the toilet, armed with a .40-caliber Kahr P40 handgun. The man, who has a valid concealed weapon permit and was lawfully in possession of the gun, had it in a holster inside his pants.

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    PT111 wrote:

    http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705277512,00.html


    It happened Tuesday at the Carl's Jr. restaurant at 385 N. 800 West. Police said the 26-year-old man had gone into the bathroom to use the toilet, armed with a .40-caliber Kahr P40 handgun. The man, who has a valid concealed weapon permit and was lawfully in possession of the gun, had it in a holster inside his pants.


    A ND from a striker fired pistol? Never!

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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    This story just doesn't ring quite true. As others here have already pointed out, no reasonable person leaves his (don't know what the ladies do) sidearm attached to his pants to drag on the floor in a public mens room. To discharge this model of handgun, certain things just HAVE to happen mechanically.

    It is very likely that this guy took the weapon out of the holster, and was putting it back when the weapon fired. That would imply, getting his finger someplace it should not be, thus overcoming any safety system in the design of the handgun.

    But we have heard his story, and he seems to be sticking with it.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    SFCRetired wrote:
    OK, I'm not an expert on pistols, but I'm thinking the same scenario as Plaxico Burris; the pistol started dropping, he grabbed for it and hit the trigger. I'm also thinking that either it wasn't in the holster or wasn't properly secured by the holster.


    I agree.If you're wearing an IWB holster (99% of which have no retention devices) it's very easy (in fact nearly guaranteed)forthe gunto fall out when dropping your pants totake a deuce. I'll be honest, it happened to me the very first time I attempted it. Ever since then I unholster before my pants go anywhere. Everyone here is assuming he was OCing, which is highly unlikely. If he was using an IWB holster, the gun wouldn't have been dragging on the floor, it would be laying on his pants.

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    Gordie wrote:
    I also wonder what type of gun it was,most guns don't fire just by dropping them.
    I had a AD/ND after I dropped a cocked and locked Star BM 9mm. For those not familiar this is a spanish copy of the 1911 but chambered in 9mm and no grip safety. The gun fell from the hoster, hit the pavement barrel first and fired. Because of thisI rarely carry this pistol anymore.
    President/ Founding Member
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    yale wrote:
    Gordie wrote:
    I also wonder what type of gun it was,most guns don't fire just by dropping them.
    I had a AD/ND after I dropped a cocked and locked Star BM 9mm. For those not familiar this is a spanish copy of the 1911 but chambered in 9mm and no grip safety. The gun fell from the hoster, hit the pavement barrel first and fired. Because of thisI rarely carry this pistol anymore.
    No firing pin block. While no one should ever depend on mechanical devices for safety, in my view the lack of a pin block is part of what makes most pre 1970, 1911 design pistols only a secondary choice as a side arm. IF it is all you have ... well ...
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    SFCRetired wrote:
    OK, I'm not an expert on pistols, but I'm thinking the same scenario as Plaxico Burris; the pistol started dropping, he grabbed for it and hit the trigger. I'm also thinking that either it wasn't in the holster or wasn't properly secured by the holster.


    I agree.If you're wearing an IWB holster (99% of which have no retention devices) it's very easy (in fact nearly guaranteed)forthe gunto fall out when dropping your pants totake a deuce. I'll be honest, it happened to me the very first time I attempted it. Ever since then I unholster before my pants go anywhere. Everyone here is assuming he was OCing, which is highly unlikely. If he was using an IWB holster, the gun wouldn't have been dragging on the floor, it would be laying on his pants.
    My IWB holster holds mygun when held upside down and being lightly shaken. A quality holster doesn't need retention devices to hold a gun under normal circumstances. Still, I'm very careful while in "compromising" positions to avoid embarrassing and potentially dangerous situations. Even if no discharge occurs, having it bounce under the stall divider and having to ask the guy next to you to return it would be a difficult situation indeed.

    I hesitate to set my gun down for fear that I may forget it when I leave. I realize that not everyone will do this, but I know that the potential for me is there to "forget" that I set it down until after I've left. I can't tell you how many pairs of sunglasses I've lost this way.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    AWDstylez wrote:
    My money is on a 1911 with a lightened trigger (but it feels so good at the range) being carried cocked and "oops, saftey caught on the holster, but*I thought it was locked".
    No.

    Most NDs happen Plaxico-style. A positively engaging thumb safety renders a 1911 probably safer than a gun with no external safeties if you're going to be juggling it like an NFL wide receiver. The single-action trigger doesn't nullify this, even lightened.

    Obviously safety with any gun comes from between the ears, but the simple fact is that with guns with no external safety except on the trigger being so popular these days, most NDs are with this style of gun when somehow the trigger is nudged.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    AWDstylez wrote:
    I agree.*If you're wearing an IWB holster (99% of which have no retention devices) it's very easy (in fact nearly guaranteed)*for*the gun*to fall out when dropping your pants to*take a deuce.* I'll be honest, it happened to me the very first time I attempted it.* Ever since then I unholster before my pants go anywhere.* Everyone here is assuming he was OCing, which is highly unlikely.* If he was using an IWB holster, the gun wouldn't have been dragging on the floor, it would be laying on his pants.
    No.

    I have a Blade-Tech IWB, and it holds my 1911 securely without any "active" retention devices.

    I could do backflips if I wanted (or if my person was physically capable of doing so :P), and I can certainly drop my pants to drop a load without also dropping my gun.

    Guaranteed.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    yale wrote:
    Gordie wrote:
    *I also wonder what type of gun it was,*most guns don't fire just by dropping them.
    I had a AD/ND after I dropped a cocked and locked Star BM 9mm.* For those not familiar this is a spanish copy of the 1911 but chambered in 9mm and no grip safety.* The gun fell from the hoster, hit the pavement barrel first and fired. Because of this*I rarely carry this pistol anymore.
    No firing pin block.* While no one should ever depend on mechanical devices for safety, in my view the lack of a pin block is part of what makes most pre 1970, 1911 design pistols only a secondary choice as a side arm.* IF it is all you have ... well ...
    Sorry, the Star is not a true 1911 clone. The internals are different. Specifically and most relevantly, they have long firing pins.

    A properly maintained real 1911 will not fire when dropped.

    A series 80 is not a 1911 as far as I am concerned. It's a series 80. :P

    If you're really worried you can get a Wolff extra power firing pin spring and you'll have extra redundant safety.

    Read the following:
    http://yarchive.net/gun/pistol/1911_...discharge.html

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    marshaul wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    yale wrote:
    Gordie wrote:
    I also wonder what type of gun it was,most guns don't fire just by dropping them.
    I had a AD/ND after I dropped a cocked and locked Star BM 9mm. For those not familiar this is a spanish copy of the 1911 but chambered in 9mm and no grip safety. The gun fell from the hoster, hit the pavement barrel first and fired. Because of thisI rarely carry this pistol anymore.
    No firing pin block. While no one should ever depend on mechanical devices for safety, in my view the lack of a pin block is part of what makes most pre 1970, 1911 design pistols only a secondary choice as a side arm. IF it is all you have ... well ...
    Sorry, the Star is not a true 1911 clone. The internals are different. Specifically and most relevantly, they have long firing pins.

    A properly maintained real 1911 will not fire when dropped.

    A series 80 is not a 1911 as far as I am concerned. It's a series 80. :P

    If you're really worried you can get a Wolff extra power firing pin spring and you'll have extra redundant safety.

    Read the following:
    http://yarchive.net/gun/pistol/1911_...discharge.html
    I don't disagree with your comments. I was in a hurry so you will just have to let the lack of precision in my comments go.

    A lot of the firearms in my collection are from before 1968, and going back to before the turn of the century. I also have a few more recent. I only have 1 star I took in trade and I have never thought very highly of it. It is just not very well made. It is as you say internally different, but it does have an inertial firing pin.

    I am aware of a lot of testing on muzzle drop discharge. The military said a long time ago that it could not happen, and the FBI Laboratory proved it could. I think it is a good bet that any inertial firing mechanism could be made to fire under the right conditions. While stronger springs might help, they can also reduce firing reliability.

    I would still contend that a 1911 style handgun that is not equipped with a firing pin block should be a secondary choice for everyday carry. I have a lot of them, and I have a number of alternatives that are identical except for the inclusion of additional safety designs.

    As I said I do not depend on mechanical devices for safety, but the firing pin block is specifically designed to prevent a discharge if the weapon is dropped on the muzzle. I have never dropped a handgun before, but that does not mean is could not happen.

    In any case, there is no reason to carry a firearm that does not incorporate modern safety designs unless it is simply all you have or can afford.


    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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