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Prince William County School Board Meeting

possumboy

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I'm planning on attending a PWC School Board meeting.

Does anyone know if they have K-12 classes on the same property?

More to the point, does anyone know if it is legal to carry to the PWC School Board meeting?
 

Sheriff

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Why risk it? Read the law below..... read the portion I highlighted in bold red font.

I think a school board meeting would clearly be a "school sponsored function".

EDIT for: The portion in bold green font is rather scary too. What exactly would a judge rule isa "threatening display"? Suppose a judge rules that simply walking in with it in open view is a threatening display? 5 years in prison --mandatory.



§ 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.

A. If any person possesses any (i) stun weapon as defined in this section; (ii) knife, except a pocket knife having a folding metal blade of less than three inches; or (iii) weapon, including a weapon of like kind, designated in subsection A of § 18.2-308, other than a firearm; upon (a) the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (c) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony; however, if the person possesses any firearm within a public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school building and intends to use, or attempts to use, such firearm, or displays such weapon in a threatening manner, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years to be served consecutively with any other sentence.

The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.

As used in this section:

"Stun weapon" means any device that emits a momentary or pulsed output, which is electrical, audible, optical or electromagnetic in nature and which is designed to temporarily incapacitate a person.

(1979, c. 467; 1988, c. 493; 1990, cc. 635, 744; 1991, c. 579; 1992, cc. 727, 735; 1995, c. 511; 1999, cc. 587, 829, 846; 2001, c. 403; 2003, cc. 619, 976; 2004, cc. 128, 461; 2005, cc. 830, 928; 2007, c. 519.)
 

possumboy

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I cannot search right now, but VA has been through school boards trying to ban guns.

It was found that they could not if it was on Public Property were school was not held.

When I get to a real browser, I will search. Until then, anyone remember those discussions?
 

Sheriff

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My point remains though, why risk it?

Do you desire to be the next test case to the tune of $15,000 to $25,000 in legal fees at trial and appeal? What the courts have previously ruled may not save you this $15,000 to $25,000 if you are arrested.
 

darthmord

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Sheriff,

A holstered firearm isn't threatening. If it were, wouldn't it fall under the brandishing laws?

More to the point, a holstered firearm is only threatening to a bad guy who intends to do you harm.

Also, if the meeting isn't held on school property used exclusively for school-sponsored functions (such as a school administration building in an adjoining lot), then it should be fair game to OC or CC.

But your mileage may vary depending on the officer(s) that respond to the MWAG call.

Lastly, IANAL.
 

Xeni

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possumboy wrote:
I'm planning on attending a PWC School Board meeting.

Does anyone know if they have K-12 classes on the same property?

More to the point, does anyone know if it is legal to carry to the PWC School Board meeting?

I don't have the email on this system - but I have an email from the Communications Director at PWCS stating that the building does NOT have any K-12 schools and that its soley an admin building.

There is a request with the County's Attorney to determine the legal status of that building in reference to lawful legal carry of firearms in that building since it's only zoned for administration and not schooling.

I'm waiting to hear back from the County's Attorney on his interpretation of 18.2-308.1 in regards to the building.

Looking at http://www.oag.state.va.us/OPINIONS/2007opns/06-072-Barnett.pdfit seems clear to me that the School Board administration building is NOT a gun free zone (WARNING: I am NOT a lawyer).

If the moons align and we get information back before next week - I'd love to OC to the next school board meeting re Math Investigations.
 

Hawkflyer

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Xeni wrote:
I'm waiting to hear back from the County's Attorney on his interpretation of 18.2-308.1 in regards to the building.

SNIP...

And you expect the County Attorney to conclude precisely what about you carrying firearms into a school board meeting? DO you actually think that they are gong to simply say, "Why sure buddy, y'all come right on in..."

Hey, I just got back from New York... you need a bridge?
 

Xeni

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Hawkflyer wrote:
Xeni wrote:
I'm waiting to hear back from the County's Attorney on his interpretation of 18.2-308.1 in regards to the building.

SNIP...

And you expect the County Attorney to conclude precisely what about you carrying firearms into a school board meeting? DO you actually think that they are gong to simply say, "Why sure buddy, y'all come right on in..."

Hey, I just got back from New York... you need a bridge?

I gotta give him and LEOs and elected officals a chance to do what is right. If they don't, thats when I raise a stink. If I raise a stink before even hearing what they have to say; I'm just as logical as an anti.

My hope is that his opinion is consistant with the AGs. If not, I find something/someone else that'll occupy my free time. :)
 

Thundar

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Sheriff wrote:
Why risk it? Read the law below..... read the portion I highlighted in bold red font.

I think a school board meeting would clearly be a "school sponsored function".




B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place;


No way I'm drinking that kool-aid tonight Sheriff.

A school board meeting is not a school sponsored event.

IANAL butthere is an Attorney General Opinion that says as much.

Link: http://www.oag.state.va.us/OPINIONS/2007opns/06-072-Barnett.pdf

That doesn't mean that the original poster is o.k. to carry. I don't know if the school board meetings are at a school or not.
 

Sheriff

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Thundar wrote:
A school board meeting is not a school sponsored event.

IANAL butthere is an Attorney General Opinion that says as much.

After a "man with a gun at school board meeting" call is dispatched, and the cops arrive, make sure you have a copy of the opinion in your back pocket. After the cops disarm you,handcuff you and throw you up against the wall, ask them if they will retrieve the Attorney General opinion from your back pocket and read it before they take you to the Magistrate's Office.

After they load you in the car and you're on the way to Magistrate's Office, ask them which part of the Attorney General opinion they did not understand while they were reading it. The cops respond back with, "Mr. Thundar, you had no business carrying a loaded weapon into a school board meeting and threatening people!" You think "WTF!?!?!?!",while you now realize something has gone terribly wrong and false accusations have arisen or are being fabricated against you.

Once at the Magistrate's Office,advise themagistrate that you know the law and havean Attorney General opinion in your back pocket. You'll probably be interrupted by the cops telling the magistrate everybody was scared of you at the school board meeting because they felt you were displaying the weapon in a threatening manner. You speak up and tell the magistrate, "Sir, all I was doing was carrying it on my hip in a holster!" The magistrate tells you, "Mr. Thundar, it's not my job to hear the case, save it for the courtroom please!" The magistrate orders that you be held without bond until the next session of court, at which time the judge can have a bond hearing.

Scary scenario, isn't it? Ask Danbus if he feels I am simply being goofy this morning, or if something like this could indeed take place. :)
 

Hawkflyer

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Sheriff wrote:
Thundar wrote:
A school board meeting is not a school sponsored event.

IANAL butthere is an Attorney General Opinion that says as much.

After a "man with a gun at school board meeting" call is dispatched, SNIP...
It all sounds VERY likely to me, but then I don't think of AG opinions as law, just opinions.:what:

I would point out that the printout of the AG opinion would never make it to the Magistrates office. LEOs would have tossed it long before they got there.
 

Thundar

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Sheriff wrote:
Thundar wrote:
A school board meeting is not a school sponsored event.

IANAL butthere is an Attorney General Opinion that says as much.

After a "man with a gun at school board meeting" call is dispatched, and the cops arrive, make sure you have a copy of the opinion in your back pocket. After the cops disarm you,handcuff you and throw you up against the wall, ask them if they will retrieve the Attorney General opinion from your back pocket and read it before they take you to the Magistrate's Office.

After they load you in the car and you're on the way to Magistrate's Office, ask them which part of the Attorney General opinion they did not understand while they were reading it. The cops respond back with, "Mr. Thundar, you had no business carrying a loaded weapon into a school board meeting and threatening people!" You think "WTF!?!?!?!",while you now realize something has gone terribly wrong and false accusations have arisen or are being fabricated against you.

Once at the Magistrate's Office,advise themagistrate that you know the law and havean Attorney General opinion in your back pocket. You'll probably be interrupted by the cops telling the magistrate everybody was scared of you at the school board meeting because they felt you were displaying the weapon in a threatening manner. You speak up and tell the magistrate, "Sir, all I was doing was carrying it on my hip in a holster!" The magistrate tells you, "Mr. Thundar, it's not my job to hear the case, save it for the courtroom please!" The magistrate orders that you be held without bond until the next session of court, at which time the judge can have a bond hearing.

Scary scenario, isn't it? Ask Danbus if he feels I am simply being goofy this morning, or if something like this could indeed take place. :)
I have already been to the school board in Chesapeake OCing. They have a separate administration building that is not on K-12 school grounds. No issues or problems there (except they whine a lot because they never want to live within their budget). Oh, yeah, they also did not like my proposal to teach gun safety in the primary school (K-2) gym curriculum and marksmanship in grades 3-12.

If I feared unjust actions by police I would not be a very good activist now would I?
 

ProShooter

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Thundar wrote:
Oh, yeah, they also did not like my proposal to teach gun safety in the primary school (K-2) gym curriculum and marksmanship in grades 3-12.

I met with the same brick wall when I offered free firearms safety training to the teachers at a local elementary school and when I offered to donate a firearms safety class to the school's fall fundraiser auction.

What do they tell kids to do when another student brings a gun to school? Tell a teacher - and just what training have the teachers had when they remove that gun from the kid's backpack? ZIP!
 

Sheriff

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Thundar wrote:
If I feared unjust actions by police I would not be a very good activist now would I?

Correct.

But keep in mind some activists have to pay the price. I guess this is the point I am trying to makebefore people intentionally go out on a limb and test the system. We've all seen what happens when the system is tested and along comes a fewcops who make up the law as they go along. If activists don't have the funds to defend themselves in a wrongful arrest, it's all downhill from there.
 
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