Felony Stop while OC'ing

glock10mm wrote:

if you all are really getting harassed and having your rights violated, where are the lawsuits?...exactly. thanks.

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Now, now -

you said yourself in an earlier post that just because charges weren't filed doesn't mean a crime hasn't taken place. Perhaps the time, energy and money it would take to "take-on" a local authority is intimidating? Perhaps it has been tried and silence so often that we know the only avenue is to express ourselves to others that feel the same way.

In either event, I think what GLOCK10MM is trying to convey, unsuccessfully, is that OC is fine, but expect cops to detain you for carrying, its their job to assess threats etc etc. Is that how it is. Period. It sucks, but its true.

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Why do you all bitch on here when you freakin' get harassed for OCing? Whether it's your right or not, people freak out when you openly carry a gun, unless your a cop, military, federal agent...blah blah...I empathize with you in regards to the security douche bag who completely blew everything out of proportion. He obviously had a stick up his ass, if you say what you said to be true, and I have no reason to doubt you then maybe you should look into doing something about him falsely accusing you...But, then it's his world against yours and all the other happy horse @#$%...I'm not trying to start a war here, cuz it never gets anywhere...But it just amazes me, when people rant and rave about being harassed while OCing...You have a CCW. Would this have happened if you CC'd? I don't know, but damn, expect harassment, your carrying a freakin' gun...For the world to see...This isn't the wild west anymore.

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GenkiSudo wrote:

...They are just responding on a crime as it was reported to them...

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Which crime is that? False Report or OC?

utbagpiper wrote:

...If YOU were to get harassed just for walking down the street with a tattoo visible, or drinking a soda, or holding hands with someone of a different race, or doing ANYTHING else that is perfectly legal would you tolerate it?

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...But a man legally OCing should not expect to have to tolerate any more BS from society or cops or anyone else than should a man legally holding hands with his girlfriend or wife of a different race, or even a couple of homosexuals holding hands. Don't like it, don't look. But don't arrest for it...

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Exactly.

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marshaul wrote:

GenkiSudo wrote:

You missed work and you were embarrassed? Good luck on doing anything with that...we're full up enough of frivolous lawsuits and, IMO, this would just be adding to that pile.

If anyone is at fault it's...you... it sounded as if you were a bit confrontational.



I'd chalk this one up as a learning experience and drive on.

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-1000

Most. Fail. Advice. Ever.

The OPs civil rights were violated and he was basically assaulted (you know, gunpoint and all that).

Not cool. State apologists take a hike.

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Actually I'm not an apologist, I'm all for OC and will fault LEO if I feel they are at fault...which I don't feel is the case here.

There are protocol that ALL departments use for felony stops. He obviously met those criteria and was therefore approached at gunpoint. His civil rights were not violated and he was in no way assaulted.

If I tell the police that someone threatened me and brandished they damn sure better take it as fact and act accordingly. They can figure out later if it was legitimate....which is what it seems like they did.



I'm all for OCing.....I'm ex military and will be damned if someone tries to take away my gun rights.

But I'm not for people OCing and being idiots looking for a confrontation....not saying this applies to the OP but it does apply to quite a few folks I've seen on here.

I'm busy at work so forgive the format of the post....I would like to write more but get a few seconds here and there to post up.

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+99999999999999999999999...........................

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This is the first Incident where I have ever been been held at gun point. For the most part I have great relations with the police and the public.

The reason for my post was to get feedback as to different views as to what happened and ways I should proceed.

I to like most have served my country in the United States Army.

I have never had any criminal charges or engaged in criminal activity only minor speeding tickets.

I plan on creating a FOIA request and a Gramma Request and checking with legal council as to if my rights were violated and legal action should be followed.

My jobwhere I work had to be notified of the charges that were dropped. I had to write statements to my department of the actions of Taylorsville took prior to the charges being dropped.

I was embarssed by the whole thing since it took place in my neighborhood where I own my house and my kids go to school with (4) Kids

No crime took place at that apartment complex the security officer from Metro Security over reacted and called police.

I open carry my firearm with great respect to the law and the public. I would glady assist anyone in trouble or in need.

Again I thank each poster that posted so far gives me a fair and balanced view to how others outside the group view this

On the lighter side of this I now know how TJ Felt with granite school district and WVCPD. except he got to keep his firearm

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IMO,

If anything, and assuming your account is correct, the guard was spooked to see a man with a gun. The guard reported it. The police took action based on the report.

you have nothing to gain, nor will you prevail in any action. In fact pursuit of any action will provide negative attention to OC.

I am not a lawyer. JUST MY OPINION.

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gunsfreak4791 wrote:

Just want to bring this buy the group and see if my rights were violated

I just got off shift from my Employer at 0001 on 15January2009 I stopped bythe summer wood apartment complex entering from the left side road to look at the property in order to put a bid in for security services. I exited the property then went back around to look at the amenties the seconad round around. As I left the complex a Metro Security officer stopped me and asked what I was doing. I asked him if he was a police officer he said "NO" I asked him if I was under arrest he said "NO" He then told me I was on private property so I left. I thought nothing of it until I was almost home andstopped by SL County Sherriff Department. I was ordered off my motorcycle and Handcuffed at gun point by the sheriff's department. I was told I was being held for Taylorsville Police Department. Taylorsville Arrived and took custody of me Handcuffing me again after SL County released me. I was questioned by J Pierce of TVPD as to what I was doing at summer wood I told him.

Apparently the security officer told Taylorsville I brandished a firearm told the security officer to F@#% off and was verbaly abusive to the security officer.

For this My firearm was conficated and I was cited for Disorderly Conduct they told me my firearm was being kept for evidence and safe keeping. I was released and went home on my motorcycle.

The following day I was called by officer J Pierce and told my charges were dropped and I could pick up my firearm on Monday

Now this caused problems with my employer Embarrsed me in front of my neighbors and caused me time off work since I have to use my firearm for my job

This was due to a security officer who turned a small incident to a all out ATL because he saw my open carried firearm which is legal I do have my CFP and did nothing wrong

I never used profanity at the guard I never touched my firearm at anytime and left after he stated I was on private property

Can I hold TVPD liable or Metro Security liable

Also TVPD needs to be briefed on Open Carry laws he did not know it was legal

Thanks

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Despite comments to the contrary, you should see what video and call information is available with FOIA requests. If I read this correctly, you got called on by a guard who is working for a company that you are preparing to bid against for work?

Depending upon who is lying in this instance, there are several outcomes possible.

1) You. (no, I do not believe you are lying, but that is one scenario)
If you are not relating events correctly, you may have been approached appropriately.

2) Guard.
If the guard is lying, and you were simply carrying legally and not drawing your firearm, he is likely guilty of placing a false 911 call.

3) TV PD.
For the method of contact, the PD will likely need a reasonable belief that you are a danger to them during the stop. Absent this information, it sure looks like they were quite heavy-handed, but since they got an actual call, I think we can discount this part. Get the 911 call, and any officer video or audio recordings.

Bottom line? The most likely of the above is #2. The 911 call will clear up who said what. Any video from the premises where the contact with the guard took place may support either you, or the 911 call as accurate.

Since ianal, you might wish to contact one for actual legal advice, especially given that you may be a party to a competitive bid against a person who may have made a false report to police against you.

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smallmansyndrome wrote:

IMO,

If anything, and assuming your account is correct, the guard was spooked to see a man with a gun. The guard reported it. The police took action based on the report.

you have nothing to gain, nor will you prevail in any action. In fact pursuit of any action will provide negative attention to OC.

I am not a lawyer. JUST MY OPINION.

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If it is as the OP indicates, the Guard clearly lied to the police in the report. I gave a brief analysis of cause/effect that covers it pretty well.

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glock10mm wrote:

utbagpiper wrote:

glock10mm wrote:

Why do you all bitch on here when you freakin' get harassed for OCing? Whether it's your right or not, people freak out when you openly carry a gun, unless your a cop, military, federal agent...blah blah...I empathize with you in regards to the security douche bag who completely blew everything out of proportion. He obviously had a stick up his ass, if you say what you said to be true, and I have no reason to doubt you then maybe you should look into doing something about him falsely accusing you...But, then it's his world against yours and all the other happy horse @#$%...I'm not trying to start a war here, cuz it never gets anywhere...But it just amazes me, when people rant and rave about being harassed while OCing...You have a CCW. Would this have happened if you CC'd? I don't know, but damn, expect harassment, your carrying a freakin' gun...For the world to see...This isn't the wild west anymore.

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-1

Why would anyone join and contribute to a comment board that is dedicated to OC if he is so opposed to people being able to go about their legal business in peace?

If YOU were to get harassed just for walking down the street with a tattoo visible, or drinking a soda, or holding hands with someone of a different race, or doing ANYTHING else that is perfectly legal would you tolerate it?

Now, frankly, I think the proper thing to do when confronted by a security guard on private property at 0100 is to explain your presence and conduct. I happen to think there are FAR better times to show up unannounced to do inspections.

But that is besides the point and if the guard made any false statements to the police, he ought to be held to account legally. If he did not make any false statements, but the police assumed that OC was equal to brandishing then they need to be held to account, legally.

But a man legally OCing should not expect to have to tolerate any more BS from society or cops or anyone else than should a man legally holding hands with his girlfriend or wife of a different race, or even a couple of homosexuals holding hands. Don't like it, don't look. But don't arrest for it.

Charles

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so what your saying is if I were to walk down the street in full KKK uniform, which is my right to do so, I shouldn't expect to get harassed? LOL, dude your a @#$%in' idiot. It's your right to Oc, no @#$%, we all get that...But I'm sick of all the @#$%ing threads in here about you all bitching while, getting kicked out of here or there or being stopped here or there, I can pull up about 8 threads right now...You openly carry, whether it's legal or not, your GONNA GET HARASSED. WHY? CUZ YOUR @#$%ING CARRYING A GUN FOR THE PUBLIC TO SEE...AND GUNS SCARE PEOPLE, EDUCATED OR UNEDUCATED ABOUT THE LAWS...CARRY OPEN, IT IS YOUR RIGHT, JUST STOP WHINING LIKE A LITTLE GIRL WHEN YOU GET HARASSED....JESUS...

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fear of guns is IRRATIONAL. To cower in fear at the sight of a gun is just crazy--you respect them, you treat them as if they are loaded at all times, but you should not cower at sight of one. if you are sick of the threads where people are talking about their rights being violated--then WHY are you here? Are you here only to try and look down your nose at people who choose to OC their firearms? Harassment is simply wrong and we should not have to tolerate it....why should we stand idly by while our rights are violated at every whim of a government that sees the Constitution as something to be got around at their leisure? IF this government or its agents do not want us to file lawsuits against them-then the formula is simple DON'T violate our rights, because if THEY respect our rights--we have no reason to file a lawsuit under 42 U.S.C 1983 and we would have no cause to try and have them arrested and charged with a crime either...Respect our rights and we will respect them, mistreat us, or try and deprive us of our rights or liberties then they should be prepared for a lawsuit and for charges to be filed against them. This is why you should ALWAYS get everything on audio/video when possible so you can use it as evidence against them.

The people are afraid of guns because of all of the anti-gun sentiment put forth by this government, and by the liberals not unlike yourself who think that people who carry a gun pose a threat to society...I would MUCH rather be around a citizen carrying a gun than I would an agent of this government...I feel MUCH safer around a citizen with a gun than I do around an agent of this government.

Now let's address "fear"--contrary to what you may have heard-the people of this country do NOT have a right to be afraid. They have a RIGHT to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, they have the RIGHT to keep and bear arms, they have the RIGHT to not be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law, they have the RIGHT to not be subjected to cruel or inhumane punishments, and they have many other such RIGHTS, but no where in the Constitution will you find that the people of this country have any "right" to be afraid....if they live in fear--they do so because that is their choice, but they certainly don't have any right to be afraid--and certainly to not be afraid of other citizens who are exercising our own Constitutionally protected rights...which rights also pertain to YOU....but obvioulsy you don't care about those pesky rights do you?


what is an INALIENABLE RIGHT if you are a gun owner? Taken further--what is an inalienable right if you are afraid to exercise it because agents of the government may/may not agree with you and may then choose to HARASS you, unlawfully detain you, violate numerous Constitutionally protected rights, and then even lie to cover up their mistreatment of you? Where do we live-Communist China? Will we hear next "no comrade, your papers are not in order...."

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wrightme wrote:

smallmansyndrome wrote:

IMO,

If anything, and assuming your account is correct, the guard was spooked to see a man with a gun. The guard reported it. The police took action based on the report.

you have nothing to gain, nor will you prevail in any action. In fact pursuit of any action will provide negative attention to OC.

I am not a lawyer. JUST MY OPINION.

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If it is as the OP indicates, the Guard clearly lied to the police in the report. I gave a brief analysis of cause/effect that covers it pretty well.

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I believe if the guard actually stated what was claimed the responding LEO whould have arrested gunsfreak on the spot any charged him with something more then disorderly conduct.

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you know this is a dead issue. anyone can come to this forum and find examples of persons the advocate OC going out and looking for confrontation.

For example the One man band incident.

One member got asked to leave. Another forum member took it upon himself to respond to One man band to eat and OC. When this member did not get a confrontation he responded on that post with "NO JOY". Because he was not confronted. Look for yourselves. It is still there on that thread.

How can any of us be taken seriously with any legal action when the group post such obvious attempts of asking for confrontations?

I am not saying that it the OP actions. The incident was reported. The incident was dealt with. And it is VERY common to be taken at gun point when the report is of a man with a gun. That is the way it is. If you were physically injured you may have a valid complaint. But I dont see it here with this issue.

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ainokea wrote:

wrightme wrote:

smallmansyndrome wrote:

IMO,

If anything, and assuming your account is correct, the guard was spooked to see a man with a gun. The guard reported it. The police took action based on the report.

you have nothing to gain, nor will you prevail in any action. In fact pursuit of any action will provide negative attention to OC.

I am not a lawyer. JUST MY OPINION.

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If it is as the OP indicates, the Guard clearly lied to the police in the report. I gave a brief analysis of cause/effect that covers it pretty well.

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I believe if the guard actually stated what was claimed the responding LEO whould have arrested gunsfreak on the spot any charged him with something more then disorderly conduct.

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Perhaps the LEO after investigating the incidnet determined that the only possible charge that would fit would be disorderly conduct. And then upon furter review found that disorderly would not fit because OC is legal. And thus the charges were dropped. So what is the point?

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smallmansyndrome wrote:

ainokea wrote:

wrightme wrote:

smallmansyndrome wrote:

IMO,

If anything, and assuming your account is correct, the guard was spooked to see a man with a gun. The guard reported it. The police took action based on the report.

you have nothing to gain, nor will you prevail in any action. In fact pursuit of any action will provide negative attention to OC.

I am not a lawyer. JUST MY OPINION.

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If it is as the OP indicates, the Guard clearly lied to the police in the report. I gave a brief analysis of cause/effect that covers it pretty well.

Click to expand...

I believe if the guard actually stated what was claimed the responding LEO whould have arrested gunsfreak on the spot any charged him with something more then disorderly conduct.

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Perhaps the LEO after investigating the incidnet determined that the only possible charge that would fit would be disorderly conduct. And then upon furter review found that disorderly would not fit because OC is legal. And thus the charges were dropped. So what is the point?

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The point is that after contact with the OP, LE should have been able to adequately determine that the call was overstated. Absent evidence other than a citizen complaint, there appears to be no evidence to support the allegations. At that point, the appropriate course should have been for LE to end contact.

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wrightme wrote: Perhaps the LEO should have ended contact. But the charges were dropped. the OP did not report that he was taken to jail. I dont see any legal action against any person or agency other than the guard and his employer. There is not any money there. good luck.

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The point is that after contact with the OP, LE should have been able to adequately determine that the call was overstated. Absent evidence other than a citizen complaint, there appears to be no evidence to support the allegations. At that point, the appropriate course should have been for LE to end contact.

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so what your saying is if I were to walk down the street in full KKK uniform, which is my right to do so, I shouldn't expect to get harassed? LOL, dude your a @#$%in' idiot. It's your right to Oc, no @#$%, we all get that...But I'm sick of all the @#$%ing threads in here about you all bitching while, getting kicked out of here or there or being stopped here or there, I can pull up about 8 threads right now...You openly carry, whether it's legal or not, your GONNA GET HARASSED. WHY? CUZ YOUR @#$%ING CARRYING A GUN FOR THE PUBLIC TO SEE...AND GUNS SCARE PEOPLE, EDUCATED OR UNEDUCATED ABOUT THE LAWS...CARRY OPEN, IT IS YOUR RIGHT, JUST STOP WHINING LIKE A LITTLE GIRL WHEN YOU GET HARASSED....JESUS...

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