Some general thoughts about this board and LEOs

Richard6218 · Jan 22, 2009

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I hope my report of the telephone incident was not what got this discussion into a bit of an "us-versus-them" bent. There seems to be a bit of defensiveness running through some of the posts since my comments. I want to repeat what I said in my post, which is that my view of law enforcement is probably more positive than the average. You guys (and gals) are doing a tough job, and you are doing it FOR US (also for U.S.). In much the same manner as the armed forces you are the defenders of our Republic, and for that I salute you. Again, the officer who created the problem for me needs some re-training about Washington law and probably some attitude adjustment. Call it basic discipline. But there are renegades in every organization, be it law enforcement, military or private business. I don't hold theorganization or all of its members responsible, except perhaps supervisors for failing to maintain discipline with this individual. But all of these things can be corrected.

sudden valley gunner · Jan 23, 2009

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shad0wfax wrote:

In the very few threads I have spoken about LEO conduct I have made every effort to point out that it's the individual officer who is in the wrong, and not all LEO's. I hope everyone who posts here makes that same effort in distinguishing between an individual bad-apple and the group.

Good point and well said. Except sometimes it can be whole departments, cities, counties, agencies that need to be educated on peoples rights andon how to treat the citizens.

jarhead1911A · Jan 23, 2009

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deanf wrote:

If you are happy being viewed as an angry blowhard who distrusts all cops, is suspicious of government, and an arsehole in general, be my guest. It's a free country after all.

Click to expand...

But not on this board it's not. Some swift, firm, and fair moderation could solve some of the attacks on cops.

When the LEO's in general stop letting that badge go to there head then yes there will be some respect tossed there way, when i stop seeing cops speeding down the interstate and mind you they are NOT on a call or when i see cops use there lights to change traffic lights just so they can get to the meeting point so they can eat lunch with there buddy then yes i will start showing respect.

If you put on a uniform of a LEO then you take the responsibility of being held to a higher standard than your average person. The same goes with people in the military, So can any LEO's eplain to me how if i have someone in cuffs and i shoot them with my real gun and not the taszer i was going for why i would go to jail and a LEO gets to go on paid leave?

Most cops are like the higher ups in the gov't, they lie break rules and always seem to think that the laws dont apply to them. So Leo's the last time you got pulled over did u even get a ticket? probably not because you were kind enough to show your badge and as we all know LEO's cover for eachother.

ElJefe1911 · Jan 23, 2009

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Jarhead, I think youare generalizing all cops or most cops in your posts. Just because you may have had some bad experiences doesn't mean that all LEOs are bad or dirty. Have you ever asked why they do some of these things? When it comes to speeding down the road when not using lights and sirens it doesn't mean they are going to a meal. There are many reasons a LEO will go faster the the speed limit. Lots of calls don't require lights and sirens but the officers still have to get there quickly. They will also sometimes move faster then traffic so they don't slow traffic down. Youalways see people slow down when an officer is in the lane next to them no matter how fast the LEO is going. If they go the speed limit then traffic moves slower and people start screaming that the cops are not letting them go fast enough. Same applies to the changing lights.

I hear alot of people state that LEOs should be held to a higher standard and I agree with that 100% but I don't think that anyone really understands what that means. The issue with the transit cop that shot the man in cuffs was a tragedy for sure,but assume that a civilian would have been treated any differently in that situation. As for being put on admin. leave, even LEOs are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Keep in mind as well that in their job they can be terminated for things that would never hurt you in the civilian world.

As for not getting a ticket, I have been pulled over more than my fair share of times and have not gotten a ticket. I would guess that if you asked there are quite a few people here that have been let go with a warning. If you haven't just look back at your posts and you can get an idea as to why. You will see professional courtesy in any profession. If you are an electrician most plumbers will cut you a deal on work and so forth. In my industry I get favors from other people that the average person will never get. It is they way of the world.

If it really bothers you that much, put on the uniform and change it from the inside instead of slinging arrows from the outside. If not this then ask one.

Just my .02

Citizen · Jan 23, 2009

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ElJefe1911 wrote:

SNIP...I have been pulled over more than my fair share of times...

Are you sure that's the wording you wanted whendefending police?

ElJefe1911 · Jan 23, 2009

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My parents taught me to take responsibility for my own actions no matter how painful they may be.

jarhead1911A · Jan 23, 2009

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ElJefe1911 wrote:

Jarhead, I think youare generalizing all cops or most cops in your posts. Just because you may have had some bad experiences doesn't mean that all LEOs are bad or dirty. Have you ever asked why they do some of these things? When it comes to speeding down the road when not using lights and sirens it doesn't mean they are going to a meal. There are many reasons a LEO will go faster the the speed limit. Lots of calls don't require lights and sirens but the officers still have to get there quickly. They will also sometimes move faster then traffic so they don't slow traffic down. Youalways see people slow down when an officer is in the lane next to them no matter how fast the LEO is going. If they go the speed limit then traffic moves slower and people start screaming that the cops are not letting them go fast enough. Same applies to the changing lights.

I hear alot of people state that LEOs should be held to a higher standard and I agree with that 100% but I don't think that anyone really understands what that means. The issue with the transit cop that shot the man in cuffs was a tragedy for sure,but assume that a civilian would have been treated any differently in that situation. As for being put on admin. leave, even LEOs are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Keep in mind as well that in their job they can be terminated for things that would never hurt you in the civilian world.

As for not getting a ticket, I have been pulled over more than my fair share of times and have not gotten a ticket. I would guess that if you asked there are quite a few people here that have been let go with a warning. If you haven't just look back at your posts and you can get an idea as to why. You will see professional courtesy in any profession. If you are an electrician most plumbers will cut you a deal on work and so forth. In my industry I get favors from other people that the average person will never get. It is they way of the world.

If it really bothers you that much, put on the uniform and change it from the inside instead of slinging arrows from the outside. If not this then ask one.

Just my .02

There is a reason why i can say what i have about LEO's see i am one of those people who will follow a cop who is breaking the rules and get him on tape from start to finish and what do you know? he ends up at shari's to have lunch with his LEO buddy who also probably broke the law to get there........

sv_libertarian · Jan 23, 2009

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Got a little too much time on your hands there Marc?

jarhead1911A · Jan 23, 2009

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Nope i dont youd be suprised what you seen when your driving down the road

ElJefe1911 · Jan 23, 2009

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I would guess thats why you aren't shocked when they treat you like they do. Shame if someone had the time to follow you around all the time, it would be interesting to see what they would find. With all that time following LEOs around why not join them? Try to do some good with your copious amounts of time.

jarhead1911A · Jan 23, 2009

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Na i have better ways to spend my time than become part of the doughnut gang, Id rather do a real job like defend my country. Anyone want to join me? I do know a few cops who have my respect who DO FOLLOW the laws they swore to protect and uphold.

MMM ya know i remember my runin with PPD last year and it pisses me right off knowing that the idiot LEO who decided to make up his own laws makes a hell of alot more than i did deployed and he does 1/4 of the work i had to and he has never truelly been in eminent danger.

So i think LEO's should get paid on there performance not on the massive overtime they seem to rack up driving around. As far as how i am treated its very basic. I refuse to allow a LEO to try and intimidate me because he has a badge and a gun, I have a gun but i dont try and intimidate people.

Out of the 3 LEO's involved in my little episode in Puyallup only 1 of them showed me respect and the other two wanted to treat me like a criminal because i carry a gun. So it goes to show the general mind set of LEO's

ElJefe1911 · Jan 23, 2009

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And just out of curiosity did you see his pay stub? How much did he make last year? I know for a fact that one of the PPD officers was shot in the face last year as well as a few others from our state. Would you consider that danger or not? I have met quite a few assholes in uniform and know a few that robbed a bank in the recent past. Does that mean that all of you guys are pricks and criminals as well? If you keep hiding and justifying your "experience" with cops based on one interaction with one bad one then your opinion will be biased and worthless from now on. I don't like to be judged by the others in my chosen profession any more than anyone else does. I would like to think I would be judged on my own merits not someone else's acts. I once saw a soldier throw a puppy off a cliff, just to be safe stay away from my dog.

Jim675 · Jan 23, 2009

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A bit old. but FYI:
Here are the base monthly salary ranges for police officers in the top-paying Washington cities of more than 30,000 people. The cities are ranked by the high end of the scale:

Kirkland $3,993-$5,131
Vancouver $3,829-$5,131
Renton $3,804-$5,092
Tacoma $3,676-$5,082 (proposed)
Edmonds $4,273-$5,062
Puyallup $3,794-$5,058
Seattle $3,557-$5,032 (2002 data)
Bellevue $3,627-$5,024
Kent $3,978-$5,007
Everett $3,817-$5,003

Source: Association of Washington Cities 2004 Salary & Benefit survey

And the military pay per month:

Cumulative Years of Service
2 or less Over 2 Over 3 Over 4
E-5 1993.50 2127.00 2229.60 2334.90
E-4 1827.60 1920.90 2025.00 2127.60
E-3 1649.70 1753.50 1859.70 1859.70
E-2 1568.70 1568.70 1568.70 1568.70
E-1 1399.50

jarhead1911A · Jan 23, 2009

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I rest my case....... And to think that LEO's get paid OVERTIME yet Military personnel are on duty 24/7 and for a hell of allot less money.

adamsesq · Jan 23, 2009

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Jarhead - that brush is pretty broad that you are painting with. Do you think the soldiers you served with could withstand the same level of scrutiny of their 24/7 activities... I am pretty sure not.

If I were to take the same line of thinking about the great men defending our country, such as yourself, that you do about police officers I would have to ascertain that they are all baby killers, rapists and illegal torturers. That is not more accurate than your view of all police officers.

Funny, I don't have too many run ins with LEOs and just about all of them are positive. But I think that the fact that I give respect (as well as expect it from them) and am polite (as well as I expect them to be) has a lot to do with that.

-adamsesq

jarhead1911A · Jan 23, 2009

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adamsesq wrote:

Jarhead - that brush is pretty broad that you are painting with. Do you think the soldiers you served with could withstand the same level of scrutiny of their 24/7 activities... I am pretty sure not.

If I were to take the same line of thinking about the great men defending our country, such as yourself, that you do about police officers I would have to ascertain that they are all baby killers, rapists and illegal torturers. That is not more accurate than your view of all police officers.

Funny, I don't have too many run ins with LEOs and just about all of them are positive. But I think that the fact that I give respect (as well as expect it from them) and am polite (as well as I expect them to be) has a lot to do with that.

-adamsesq

Everything we do in Iraq is looked appon by the whole world weather it be giving aid to the people who are caught up in the fight or killing an insurgent because he just shot up 4 civilians and 3 of my men.

so you may wish to think again about who looks on who for what....... If you dont want to believe me by all means enlist and see for yourself.

adamsesq · Jan 23, 2009

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jarhead1055 wrote:

Everything we do in Iraq is looked appon by the whole world weather it be giving aid to the people who are caught up in the fight or killing an insurgent because he just shot up 4 civilians and 3 of my men.

so you may wish to think again about who looks on who for what....... If you dont want to believe me by all means enlist and see for yourself.

Oh, wait a minute... There might be more to actions than meets the eyes? You mean those soliders shouldn't be judged by what the "outsiders" see on the surface? That sure sounds like what has been trying to be explained to you here...

-adamsesq

Johnny Law · Jan 23, 2009

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jarhead1055 wrote:

Na i have better ways to spend my time than become part of the doughnut gang, Id rather do a real job like defend my country. Anyone want to join me? I do know a few cops who have my respect who DO FOLLOW the laws they swore to protect and uphold.

MMM ya know i remember my runin with PPD last year and it pisses me right off knowing that the idiot LEO who decided to make up his own laws makes a hell of alot more than i did deployed and he does 1/4 of the work i had to and he has never truelly been in eminent danger.

Ya know, if you really think about it how is the Military defendingOUR country? We aren't under attack from a foreign nation, and Iraq doesn't even have the means to bring a war to us. The Military is simply furthering U.S. interests abroad, which in some cases may be considered a preemptive strike.

Futhermore,Many Cops are vets, and others are still active and are currently deployed.What would you call those individuals? The fact is that Cops are the ones that actually defend this country, as they are the ones whose job is toprotect U.S. citizens, and maintain order in this country, not the Military.

I routinelyarrest active duty Military people on a regular basis, for the same crimes committed by anyone else. As for never being in eminent danger, I have been in more than my share of gunfights, and countless dangerous situations, as have my co-workers.

It's true that Cops in Western Wa. do generally makegood money, but most people would never want my job, out of fear. If you think it's such a cakewalk, go throw your name in the hat and see where it goes. We're always looking for good people who canwalk the walk.

ElJefe1911 · Jan 24, 2009

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I understand that your BASE pay might be less than the base pay of the average officer from the highest paid departments in our state, however don't you get extra pay for deployments as well as other duties you might perform? and don't you get a signing bonus and reenlistment bonus for keeping your job? I don't believe that LEOs get those benefits. I also believe that you get to keep most of that money tax free while you are deployed. And you also get free room and board if you choose not to live off post or you are deployed. I am in no way taking away from the hardships the military and their families suffer, but you need to look at the truth of both sides not just your own.

Morris · Jan 24, 2009

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Yet again, another thread denigrated into silliness. And folks wonder why I just don't weigh in anymore, personally and professionally. Sadly, the declining tone of the thread causes many of us to shake our heads and walk away. Some folks are so bitter even a Florida orange tastes like a lemon.

Good luck gang. You have some odd duck here.

Some general thoughts about this board and LEOs

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