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Thread: Defeat Senate Bill 96!

  1. #1
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    OK guys, The 2009 legislative session starts next week, and already we have some bill to start fighting. Here is the first...

    S.B. 96 introduced by Sen. Scott McCoy would limit Utah Concealed Firearm Permits to residents of Utah. As you are certainly aware, Utah's permit is the most widely accepted permit in the states. Although this change will not affect us as citizens of Utah, we have to keep in mind all of our brothers in arms that rely on Utah's permit to keep them legal in other states. Underlined is the main part of the text that Sen. McCoy wants to add to Utah law.

    53-5-704. Division duties -- Permit to carry concealed firearm -- Certification for concealed firearms instructor --
    Requirements for issuance -- Violation -- Denial, suspension, or revocation -- Appeal procedure.


    (1) (a) The division or its designated agent shall issue a permit to carry a concealed firearm for lawful self defense to an applicant who is:
    (i) at least 21 years of age; and
    (ii) (A) a resident of the state;
    (B) a member of the armed forces whose permanent duty station is located in Utah; or
    (C) a dependent, living in Utah, of an individual referred to in Subsection (1)(a)(ii)(B).

    (b) The division or its designated agent shall issue the permit within 60 days after
    receiving an application, unless during the 60-day period the division finds proof that the
    applicant is not of good character.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  2. #2
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    Whats wrong with these people..

    Lets stop this

  3. #3
    State Researcher
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    While that is among the most onerous and obvious of the bills provisions, look at the other changes:

    It changes everything from "concealed weapon" to "concealed firearm" making it illegal to carry a concealed knife or other non-firearm weapon.

    It changes plural firearms to singular firearm setting the stage for limiting you to carrying only one gun at a time.

    It clamps down on issuing permits to former police officers without them taking exactly the same class as everyone else. While this is not terribly offensive to me, it is likely a place to find LEO opposition to the bill.

    The bill needs to be defeated outright, very quickly.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  4. #4
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    This issue will be attracting the attention of folks from all across the country!

    It was my understanding that the State of Utah had turned their Concealed Firearm* Permit program into a profitable endeavor, is that still the case?

    It's a bold legislator who proposes cutting off a pain free source of funds in this economic environment!

    TFred

    BTW, Charles, my permit does say "Firearm". Received it in October 2008.

  5. #5
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    TFred wrote:
    This issue will be attracting the attention of folks from all across the country!

    It was my understanding that the State of Utah had turned their Concealed Firearm* Permit program into a profitable endeavor, is that still the case?

    It's a bold legislator who proposes cutting off a pain free source of funds in this economic environment!

    TFred

    BTW, Charles, my permit does say "Firearm". Received it in October 2008.
    The permit process is self funding. It is not a money maker, but breaks even. It is certainly a "makes work" program for at least a couple of investigators at BCI whose jobs are being funded by non-Utahns applying for a permit.

    Yes, your permit does say "firearm." But throughout statute it permits you to carry a "weapon" rather than a firearm.

    I think this bill is mostly an attempt to ask for the sun, moon, and stars, to see if we will quickly offer up the stars, or otherwise to set the limits of debate.

    Compared to this bill, for example, simply raising the cost of a non-resident permit or even forcing non-residents to get instruction inside Utah looks pretty "reasonable." And compared to the provision eliminating non-res permits, all the other changes look pretty small. Good tactics and strategy on McCoy's part.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I read the Wiki article on the guy, but it doesn't say if he's over the top anti-gun. As long as it's not costing the state money or any other negative baggage, what's his beef with it? Is he just one of the Brady Bunch True Believers?

    Many other states, or certainly at least residents of many other states, hold up Utah's program as the best in the nation. Seems like the Utah folks should be proud of it, rather than trying to destroy it.

    TFred

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    TFred wrote:
    I read the Wiki article on the guy, but it doesn't say if he's over the top anti-gun. As long as it's not costing the state money or any other negative baggage, what's his beef with it? Is he just one of the Brady Bunch True Believers?

    Many other states, or certainly at least residents of many other states, hold up Utah's program as the best in the nation. Seems like the Utah folks should be proud of it, rather than trying to destroy it.

    TFred
    Suffice it to say he is a true believer against individual RKBA. Doubly so on the "B" portion of RKBA.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    OK guys, The 2009 legislative session starts next week, and already we have some bill to start fighting. Here is the first...

    S.B. 96 introduced by Sen. Scott McCoy would limit Utah Concealed Firearm Permits to residents of Utah. As you are certainly aware, Utah's permit is the most widely accepted permit in the states. Although this change will not affect us as citizens of Utah, we have to keep in mind all of our brothers in arms that rely on Utah's permit to keep them legal in other states. Underlined is the main part of the text that Sen. McCoy wants to add to Utah law.

    53-5-704. Division duties -- Permit to carry concealed firearm -- Certification for concealed firearms instructor --
    Requirements for issuance -- Violation -- Denial, suspension, or revocation -- Appeal procedure.


    (1) (a) The division or its designated agent shall issue a permit to carry a concealed firearm for lawful self defense to an applicant who is:
    (i) at least 21 years of age; and
    (ii) (A) a resident of the state;
    (B) a member of the armed forces whose permanent duty station is located in Utah; or
    (C) a dependent, living in Utah, of an individual referred to in Subsection (1)(a)(ii)(B).

    (b) The division or its designated agent shall issue the permit within 60 days after
    receiving an application, unless during the 60-day period the division finds proof that the
    applicant is not of good character.
    How do we fight it lets get something going.

  9. #9
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    Preaching to the choir here.....

    Let your state legislator know that you are opposed to this bill and why. Get there support to defeat this bad piece of legislation....

    JoeSparky
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  10. #10
    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    Here is a copy of the e-mail I have put together to send out to all of the state representatives on the 2009 legislative session. Let me know if there is anything I should edit or add to this before I send it out.

    As a licensed concealed firearm permit holder, I am writing to express my concern about the rhetoric that would be altered in Utah Code in sections 53-1-104 & 53-5-701 through 53-5-704 if this new bill, proposed by Senator Scott McCoy, were to pass into law. My first concern is the fact that it would change references of "concealed weapon" to "concealed firearm". This would set the stage for future legislation that could make all other viable weapons of self defense, other than firearms, illegal to conceal even with an issued permit. My second concern is that the the proposed bill would also change references of "firearms" from plural to a singular "firearm". This could set the stage for future legislation that would allow prosecution, even with a concealed weapons permit, for carrying more than one firearm concealed. Some people like to carry a backup in an ankle holster or smart carry rig. They would be breaking the law if this bill were to pave the way for future restrictive legislation of the 76-10-500 series of statutes in the Utah Criminal Code if the restrictions were geared toward the intent of this bill.

    My final concern is the fact that this bill would limit permit applicants to those who reside in this state. Utah has reciprocity with many other states in the union with regard to its concealed firearms permit. While some ignorant individuals lay claim that this is costly and causes liability to the State's reputation, the evidence has yet to be established. The current program pays for itself and is well-managed by the Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification. It would be a shame to limit the freedom of people from other states by cutting off an avenue for them to register and legally carry a concealed weapon for the defense of themselves and their families. This bill also eliminates the "shall issue" mandate for veteran police officers who leave their positions honorably, and fit the requirements of the statutes, to obtain a concealed firearms permit without going through the same processes as ordinary citizens. Although this may not concern most civilians, there may be opposition from law enforcement on this change as well. I am curious as to why Senator McCoy would include such omissions in this bill, because I can see no benefit to society or the state of Utah by these changes. It only serves to further restrict our right to bear arms and exercise disciplined free will.

    In conclusion, I ask that you not support this bill in the 2009 legislative session. We would hope that our elected officials would honor their commitment to uphold the will of their constituents and represent our interests as promised when they took office.

    Sincerely,

    *my name*



    Kevin



    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

  11. #11
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    LovesHisXD....

    Liked your email but...

    would it help to IDENTIFY by number the proposed peice of legislation being proposed by the esteem legislator to which you are expressing opposition?

    Also, not sure "RHETORIC" is the word you really want in the first line...maybe something like... "language" or "wording"....



    JoeSparky
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  12. #12
    Regular Member colormered's Avatar
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    I agree with Sparky's suggestions, and would include another paragraph break when you describe your second concern.

    With those changes, I think it is well done and conveys your points well.

    ColorMeRed

  13. #13
    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    JoeSparky wrote:
    LovesHisXD....

    Liked your email but...

    would it help to IDENTIFY by number the proposed peice of legislation being proposed by the esteem legislator to which you are expressing opposition?

    Also, not sure "RHETORIC" is the word you really want in the first line...maybe something like... "language" or "wording"....



    JoeSparky
    Thanks. I'll make the changes. I had originally put the bill number in the subject line of the e-mail, but I'll make structural changes to include it in the body as well.

    Kevin
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

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    I've emailed Senator Killpack and Representative Aagard with a letter based around the sample that you provided.

    Thank you!

    - www.JoeLevi.com

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    you are welcome.:celebrate:celebrate

  16. #16
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I am a Utah permit instructor based here in Virginia. I implore all Utah residents and non-residents alike to fight this proposal. Our Utah permit class is one of the more popular classes that we offer. Suffice it to say that the disbanding of the non-resident permit system would be a blow to our business and also a blow to citizens everywhere who rely on that permit for self-defense in their travels.

    I am a member of the Virginia Citizens Defense League and just the other day, we appeared, 600 strong, at our General Assembly building to fight some anti-gun bills that Virginia is cooking up. Please do everything that you can to let your legislators know that the issuance of Utah non-resident permits must be upheld and allowed to continue.

    Jim Reynolds

    President

    Proactive Shooters, LLC

    Richmond, VA.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  17. #17
    Regular Member colormered's Avatar
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    I forwarded your message in an email to my state senator. I think it will help to have them consider its impact on people outside the state.

    ColorMeRed

  18. #18
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    colormered wrote:
    I forwarded your message in an email to my state senator. I think it will help to have them consider its impact on people outside the state.

    ColorMeRed
    Thank you!
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  19. #19
    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    Ok. I got all the e-mails out to all of the state representatives. Here is a link from GO Utah.Org that has all of their e-mails. There are also tons of other contacts there as well.

    Check it out and let your voice be heard.

    http://www.goutahorg.org/address.html#stsenate

    Kevin
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

  20. #20
    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    Ok. Here is an quick update and some good news. I have received several replies from some of the representatives. The feedback is indicative that the bill will not pass. All of the replies so far are against the bill. I have not received a single response in support of S.B 96 as of yet.

    Keep sending in those e-mails and contacting everybody who has any say in this and keep up the good work. It seems to be working so far.

    Kevin
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

  21. #21
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    LovesHisXD45 wrote:
    ...The feedback is indicative that the bill will not pass. All of the replies so far are against the bill....
    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

  22. #22
    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    LovesHisXD45 wrote:
    ...The feedback is indicative that the bill will not pass. All of the replies so far are against the bill....
    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate
    Hey. Only three bananas? BTW, where is thought police? I thought he would have chimed in on something lately. It must be the season. I haven't been posting a whole lot lately either. I'm kinda burned out from the divorce.

    Kevin
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

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    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    Good. Glad to see you are still lurking in the shadows waiting to strike at a moment's notice.

    Kevin


    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

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