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Thread: police miisconduct and false arrest while open carrying

  1. #1
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    To: SergeantX Virginia Beach Police Professional Standards

    From: dilligaf

    About: Officer X Police Misconduct



    On the night of Saturday January 3, 2009 Officer X of Virginia Beach Police Department stopped me on Northhampton Boulevard right past Diamond Spring Road. Before Officer x approached my vehicle I rolled down my driver’s side front window turned to him and put both of my hands out of the window. Upon approaching my driver’s side of my car he already had his right hand on his weapon and a flashlight in his left. He then instructed me to roll down all of my windows and to hand him my driver’s license and registration. I handed these items to him and returned to my original position with both hands out the window. When he fully approached my car Officer X asked me, if I had any weapons in the car I replied “yes I have my weapon right here” and turned my hips to give him a better visual of my right hip and I still remain with both my hands out the window.



    Officer x at this point then grabs for his weapon and releases the retention as if he were going to shoot me. The officer did not do this to be stern but this was intended as a threat of lethal force. As a peace officer this was a poor response to escalate this situation to use of lethal or deadly force in a situation where it is completely not necessary and these actions are in direct non-compliance with the Department of Criminal Justice Services Performance Outcomes, Training Objectives Criteria and Lesson Plan Guide for Compulsory Minimum Training Standards for Law Enforcement Officers Section 6.6.3C and 6.6.3E. These events all occurred in a matter of 15-20 seconds but it only takes a split second to become a casualty of a reckless cop’s mistake. Officer X then goes on to arrest me carrying for a concealed weapon that was not concealed.



    I own a Glock Model 22, which I was caring in a Blackhawk Serpa Holster. That’s a full-sized Glock .40 caliber in a bulky paddle style holster. I am a 6’5’’ black male at around 260 lbs with a slender/muscular build. I was wearing a 3XL black hooded sweatshirt that was unzipped and a 3XL fruit of the loom white t-shirt. For my size my clothes were pretty small and in no way did I attempt to cover, conceal or mask the appearance of my weapon and also made my best effort to let him know that I was caring a weapon upon him approaching my car. After the officer invoked the arrest, I continued to comply with all of his orders he began to yell at me and pulled my arm as if he were trying to drag me out of the car. I told him “ officer I have on a seatbelt and I am not going to reach over to and unhook it unless you remove my weapon.” He then had his fellow officer come through my back seat and remove my weapon and unhook my seatbelt.



    Still with both hands up being completely submissive to the officer’s commands I then step out of my car. Officer x then bends my arm until my thumb touches the gap in my back between my shoulder blades and applies restraints by slapping them on my left wrist first then applying the other cuff to my right. OfficerX then walks me to the back of my car pushing me against the car and kicking my feet and searching me while his fellow officer searches my car. Being that I was uncomfortable with the way that I was being treated I requested to see a supervisor.



    This whole ordeal was over in a matter of 10 minutes but I have to go on with the memory of being treated like a criminal and the embarrassment for the rest of my life. I do not know if I match a certain profile that OfficerX has a bias against or what motivated him to treat me this way but this misconduct should not be tolerated.



    Respectfully submitted









    dilligaf

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    Sounds like you were stopped at night in a bad section of town.

    We do not know what type of car you are driving or what the initial stop was for. Your car may look like a gang banger automobile with limo black tint. ha!!

    Much of what you wrote is so subjective and you draw conclusions instead of posting just the facts detailing the stop.

    I would re-wright that letter and stick to facts. Leave outyour impressions or opinions. The reader can draw their own conclusions form the facts presented. You are trying to lead the reader into drawing the same conclusion as you have already. Just because you think it is wrong does not mean that it is.

    //Removed... Found it after reading a second time....//

    I did see a reference to a supreme court case just the other day that identified a weapon in the car,not visible to the officer, was in fact a concealed weapon. It also included it being on the seat next to the driver but out of view of the officer.

    So your case may actually be a violation of law.

    You kept your hands out the window at all time so I do not see any intent on your part and you were truthful when asked.

    Keep us posted on what happens. I am interested in knowing.


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    Devils Advocate wrote:
    Sounds like you were stopped at night in a bad section of town.

    We do not know what type of car you are driving or what the initial stop was for. Your car may look like a gang banger automobile with limo black tint. ha!!

    Much of what you wrote is so subjective and you draw conclusions instead of posting just the facts detailing the stop.

    I would re-wright that letter and stick to facts. Leave outyour impressions or opinions. The reader can draw their own conclusions form the facts presented. You are trying to lead the reader into drawing the same conclusion as you have already. Just because you think it is wrong does not mean that it is.

    I am guessing you were arrested for carrying a concealed weapon?? You said arrest but never provided the charge.

    I did see a reference to a supreme court case just the other day that identified a weapon in the car,not visible to the officer, was in fact a concealed weapon. It also included it being on the seat next to the driver but out of view of the officer.

    So your case may actually be a violation of law.

    You kept your hands out the window at all time so I do not see any intent on your part and you were truthful when asked.

    Keep us posted on what happens. I am interested in knowing.
    I don't think someone can leave out their impressions of a situation like that. In the end with only two witnesses, it will come down to the facts falling somewhere between the arresting officer's impressions and the original poster's impressions of what happened.

    My $.02.

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    Welcome to OCDO!!!!

    Not sure why you posted the complaint. Has it already been sent or are you looking for feed back?

    If you have been charged it might be smart to delete the post and get a lawyer.

    If you were not charged and plan to just follow the formal complaint process, but have not sent the complaint, you might like to polish thingsa bit. Theofficers who read it will find it helpful toknow why you were stopped. And whethera supervisor was called, and theoutcomeof the supervisor's visit.

    Although moredetail of the circumstances would help us understand, I don't know that they are totally necessaryfor theformal complaint.

    Also, you might care to tell Professional Standards what redress you want. For example, refresher training for the individual officers involved. Or roll call briefings to ensure all officers know thatdecent citizens carry, too.Whatever it is you would like to see done.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Devils Advocate wrote:
    SNIP I did see a reference to a supreme court case just the other day that identified a weapon in the car,not visible to the officer, was in fact a concealed weapon. It also included it being on the seat next to the driver but out of view of the officer.
    Cite, please.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  6. #6
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    Citizen wrote:
    Devils Advocate wrote:
    SNIP I did see a reference to a supreme court case just the other day that identified a weapon in the car,not visible to the officer, was in fact a concealed weapon. It also included it being on the seat next to the driver but out of view of the officer.
    Cite, please.
    This one is really hard to imagine. I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that a gun out in the open on the passenger seat is certainly not concealed in any way, shape, or form. If it was, then the argument could be made that someone sitting in a restaurant with strong side on the inside of a booth is carrying concealed. Or standing next to a magazine rack in a store. This would open up all manner of doors for charges to be brought against an unsuspecting citizen.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  7. #7
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    dilligaf wrote:
    To: SergeantX Virginia Beach Police Professional Standards

    From: dilligaf

    About: Officer X Police Misconduct



    On the night of Saturday January 3, 2009 Officer X of Virginia Beach Police Department stopped me on Northhampton Boulevard right past Diamond Spring Road. Before Officer x approached my vehicle I rolled down my driver’s side front window turned to him and put both of my hands out of the window. Upon approaching my driver’s side of my car he already had his right hand on his weapon and a flashlight in his left. He then instructed me to roll down all of my windows and to hand him my driver’s license and registration. I handed these items to him and returned to my original position with both hands out the window. When he fully approached my car Officer X asked me, if I had any weapons in the car I replied “yes I have my weapon right here” and turned my hips to give him a better visual of my right hip and I still remain with both my hands out the window.



    Officer x at this point then grabs for his weapon and releases the retention as if he were going to shoot me. The officer did not do this to be stern but this was intended as a threat of lethal force. As a peace officer this was a poor response to escalate this situation to use of lethal or deadly force in a situation where it is completely not necessary and these actions are in direct non-compliance with the Department of Criminal Justice Services Performance Outcomes, Training Objectives Criteria and Lesson Plan Guide for Compulsory Minimum Training Standards for Law Enforcement Officers Section 6.6.3C and 6.6.3E. These events all occurred in a matter of 15-20 seconds but it only takes a split second to become a casualty of a reckless cop’s mistake. Officer X then goes on to arrest me carrying for a concealed weapon that was not concealed.



    I own a Glock Model 22, which I was caring in a Blackhawk Serpa Holster. That’s a full-sized Glock .40 caliber in a bulky paddle style holster. I am a 6’5’’ black male at around 260 lbs with a slender/muscular build. I was wearing a 3XL black hooded sweatshirt that was unzipped and a 3XL fruit of the loom white t-shirt. For my size my clothes were pretty small and in no way did I attempt to cover, conceal or mask the appearance of my weapon and also made my best effort to let him know that I was caring a weapon upon him approaching my car. After the officer invoked the arrest, I continued to comply with all of his orders he began to yell at me and pulled my arm as if he were trying to drag me out of the car. I told him “ officer I have on a seatbelt and I am not going to reach over to and unhook it unless you remove my weapon.” He then had his fellow officer come through my back seat and remove my weapon and unhook my seatbelt.



    Still with both hands up being completely submissive to the officer’s commands I then step out of my car. Officer x then bends my arm until my thumb touches the gap in my back between my shoulder blades and applies restraints by slapping them on my left wrist first then applying the other cuff to my right. OfficerX then walks me to the back of my car pushing me against the car and kicking my feet and searching me while his fellow officer searches my car. Being that I was uncomfortable with the way that I was being treated I requested to see a supervisor.



    This whole ordeal was over in a matter of 10 minutes but I have to go on with the memory of being treated like a criminal and the embarrassment for the rest of my life. I do not know if I match a certain profile that OfficerX has a bias against or what motivated him to treat me this way but this misconduct should not be tolerated.



    Respectfully submitted









    dilligaf
    Pursue this. If your report is accurate (no reason to believe it is not), then one might say the actions of the LEOs was uncalled for and completely out of place. Granted there could be a host of things involved here. The LEOs could be on the lookout for criminal activity in the area or someone who closely fit your description. But it you did what you said you did (again, I have no reason to doubt you), then they appear to have gone a bit over the top. I would press this one.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Devils Advocate wrote:
    SNIP I did see a reference to a supreme court case just the other day that identified a weapon in the car,not visible to the officer, was in fact a concealed weapon. It also included it being on the seat next to the driver but out of view of the officer.
    Cite, please.
    This one is really hard to imagine. I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that a gun out in the open on the passenger seat is certainly not concealed in any way, shape, or form. If it was, then the argument could be made that someone sitting in a restaurant with strong side on the inside of a booth is carrying concealed. Or standing next to a magazine rack in a store. This would open up all manner of doors for charges to be brought against an unsuspecting citizen.
    Some other states have it in the law written that the gun must be visible from a certain number of 'sides' of the person, or that a certain percentage of the gun must be visible.

    Virginia has none of the above. It is simply "hidden from common observation"

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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    I don't think someone can leave out their impressions of a situation like that. In the end with only two witnesses, it will come down to the facts falling somewhere between the arresting officer's impressions and the original poster's impressions of what happened.

    My $.02.
    I think it would be appropriate to state you were hurt, offended, embarrassed, or something like that.

    But to post what your thoughts on what you believed the officer was doing is pointless to me. We can all have our own thoughts and speculate on what someone is going to say or do.



    To: SergeantX Virginia Beach Police Professional Standards

    From: dilligaf

    About: Officer X Police Misconduct


    On the night of Saturday January 3, 2009 Officer X of Virginia Beach Police Department stopped me on Northhampton Boulevard right past Diamond Spring Road. Before Officer x approached my vehicle I rolled down my driver’s side front window turned to him and put both of my hands out of the window. Upon approaching my driver’s side of my car he already had his right hand on his weapon and a flashlight in his left. He then instructed me to roll down all of my windows and to hand him my driver’s license and registration. I handed these items to him and returned to my original position with both hands out the window. When he fully approached my car Officer X asked me, if I had any weapons in the car I replied “yes I have my weapon right here” and turned my hips to give him a better visual of my right hip and I still remain with both my hands out the window.

    Officer x at this point then grabs for his weapon and releases the retention as if he were going to shoot me. The officer did not do this to be stern but this was intended as a threat of lethal force. As a peace officer this was a poor response to escalate this situation to use of lethal or deadly force in a situation where it is completely not necessary and these actions are in direct non-compliance with the Department of Criminal Justice Services Performance Outcomes, Training Objectives Criteria and Lesson Plan Guide for Compulsory Minimum Training Standards for Law Enforcement Officers Section 6.6.3C and 6.6.3E. These events all occurred in a matter of 15-20 seconds but it only takes a split second to become a casualty of a reckless cop’s mistake. Officer X then goes on to arrest me carrying for a concealed weapon that was not concealed.

    I own a Glock Model 22, which I was caring in a Blackhawk Serpa Holster. That’s a full-sized Glock .40 caliber in a bulky paddle style holster. I am a 6’5’’ black male at around 260 lbs with a slender/muscular build. I was wearing a 3XL black hooded sweatshirt that was unzipped and a 3XL fruit of the loom white t-shirt. For my size my clothes were pretty small and in no way did I attempt to cover, conceal or mask the appearance of my weapon and also made my best effort to let him know that I was caring a weapon upon him approaching my car. After the officer invoked the arrest, I continued to comply with all of his orders he began to yell at me and pulled my arm as if he were trying to drag me out of the car. I told him “ officer I have on a seatbelt and I am not going to reach over to and unhook it unless you remove my weapon.” He then had his fellow officer come through my back seat and remove my weapon and unhook my seatbelt.

    Still with both hands up being completely submissive to the officer’s commands I then step out of my car. Officer x then bends my arm until my thumb touches the gap in my back between my shoulder blades and applies restraints by slapping them on my left wrist first then applying the other cuff to my right. OfficerX then walks me to the back of my car pushing me against the car and kicking my feet and searching me while his fellow officer searches my car. Being that I was uncomfortable with the way that I was being treated I requested to see a supervisor.

    This whole ordeal was over in a matter of 10 minutes but I have to go on with the memory of being treated like a criminal and the embarrassment for the rest of my life. I do not know if I match a certain profile that OfficerX has a bias against or what motivated him to treat me this way but this misconduct should not be tolerated.

    Respectfully submitted
    The areas I was talking about I made bold. I used italics to indicatethe fluff that could have been left out and were unnecessary.


    In all and working only with the poster'sdetails it seems a little strange to be charged since for concealed carry wen we have all known people to open carry in their car.

    Best of luck to you!!

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    Citizen wrote:
    Devils Advocate wrote:
    SNIP I did see a reference to a supreme court case just the other day that identified a weapon in the car,not visible to the officer, was in fact a concealed weapon. It also included it being on the seat next to the driver but out of view of the officer.
    Cite, please.
    Way ahead of you citizen.

    I am trying to remember where I saw it as it referred to a court case and I thought I would have book marked it. Seems that I did not.

    I will try to find it.

    Please note that I did not post it as fact and only that I read something in passing. It may have not even been from a court covering this district.

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    nova wrote:
    Some other states have it in the law written that the gun must be visible from a certain number of 'sides' of the person, or that a certain percentage of the gun must be visible.

    Virginia has none of the above. It is simply "hidden from common observation"
    And if the officer outside the car window cannot see it without walking all the way around the car and checking the other side (where you are out of his sight and can move the gun from one side to the other without being noticed) may be covered by that hidden from common observation.

    Granted, it is not covered by his shirt it does make you wonder how far that law goes. As I commented earlier, I saw a reference to a court case that said that and on the neighboring seat blocked from view by the driver's body was a violation.

    Let me do some searching and see if I can find it.

  12. #12
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    Who is Officer X ?
    Were you arrested and Charged?

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    Devils Advocate wrote:
    nova wrote:
    Some other states have it in the law written that the gun must be visible from a certain number of 'sides' of the person, or that a certain percentage of the gun must be visible.

    Virginia has none of the above. It is simply "hidden from common observation"
    And if the officer outside the car window cannot see it without walking all the way around the car and checking the other side (where you are out of his sight and can move the gun from one side to the other without being noticed) may be covered by that hidden from common observation.

    Granted, it is not covered by his shirt it does make you wonder how far that law goes. As I commented earlier, I saw a reference to a court case that said that and on the neighboring seat blocked from view by the driver's body was a violation.

    Let me do some searching and see if I can find it.
    I don't believe that would (or should) be because if a person was on the other side of the vehicle it would be obvious. Just because a LEO can't see it doesn't mean it is hidden, it means he can't see it from where he's standing.

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    Welcome to OCDO!

    Devil's Advocate are you perhaps thinking of a semi-recent decision in Arizona?

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    nova wrote:
    Devils Advocate wrote:
    nova wrote:
    Some other states have it in the law written that the gun must be visible from a certain number of 'sides' of the person, or that a certain percentage of the gun must be visible.

    Virginia has none of the above. It is simply "hidden from common observation"
    And if the officer outside the car window cannot see it without walking all the way around the car and checking the other side (where you are out of his sight and can move the gun from one side to the other without being noticed) may be covered by that hidden from common observation.

    Granted, it is not covered by his shirt it does make you wonder how far that law goes. As I commented earlier, I saw a reference to a court case that said that and on the neighboring seat blocked from view by the driver's body was a violation.

    Let me do some searching and see if I can find it.
    I don't believe that would (or should) be because if a person was on the other side of the vehicle it would be obvious. Just because a LEO can't see it doesn't mean it is hidden, it means he can't see it from where he's standing.
    This is not that case I was talking about but it is interesting reading

    http://www.romingerlegal.com/va_case...a/1854042.html

    This Court has previously held that "a weapon is hidden from common view . . . when it is 'hidden from all except those with an unusual or exceptional opportunity to view it.'" Clarke v. Commonwealth, 32 Va. App. 286, 303, 527 S.E.2d 484, 493 (2000)

    ...the shotgun had not been hidden from common view and observation, but simply was not readily visible to the officer because it was dark and because he and his passenger were wearing bulky coats.

    18.2-308(A) prohibits a person from carrying a weapon "about his person, hidden
    from common observation." "'About the person' must mean that it is so connected with the person as to be readily accessible for use or surprise if desired." Schaaf v. Commonwealth, 220Va. 429, 430, 258 S.E.2d 574, 575 (1979)


    Now playing for the other team as I sometimes do just to keep things interesting, I can see how the officer ona traffic stop all alone would not be able to view a weapon carried on the hip of a motorist and could easily be deployed against him.Unless the officer was to walk from the driver's window to the passenger's window to look incould itcould be viewed. So in a way it ishidden from common observation at that moment.

    In the time it takes the officer to walk around the stopped vehicle he loses sight of the occupant and would certainly give them time to draw that weapon and deploy it. But I do understand that the officer could have been shot upon the first approach. But in this case, maybe something is said or the occupant fears that he will be arrested for something he was not aware of prior.

    It is far easier to check for weapons when you stop a person outside a car and can easily see at leastthree sides of their body.You can easily check that forth sided while keeping an eye on them. A seated motorist only allows you to see two and then you have to basically leave the person and walk all the way around to see the third side if you are screening for weapons.

    So how the courts define "common observation" is really the key. There are many cases out there and some come real close to this. I have not found anything dealing directly with on the hip.

    Anyone else?

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    I feel that there is something wrong when an honest citizen is trying to cooperate with a public servant, show him that he is no threatbut gets treated likea criminal bent on murder andmayhem. The man kept hishands visible (maybe should have had them on the steering wheel), identified where he had his weapon and (I assume) made no threatening moves or comments. IFthat is true, then the cop needs tobe made to seek other employment and pay reparations.

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    Lets just say the OP is true and that no important facts have been left out. Lets just say.

    I hope that fussy cop who was posting a few days ago "if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind cooperating" reads this thread.

    And some cops wonder why some of us feel strongly againstnotifying.

    Sheesh. (Actually I would usestronger language I learned in the Marine Corps, but I want to respect John and Mike's wishes about cussing.)
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Lets just say the OP is true and that no important facts have been left out. Lets just say.

    I hope that fussy cop who was posting a few days ago "if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind cooperating" reads this thread.

    And some cops wonder why some of us feel strongly againstnotifying.

    Sheesh. (Actually I would usestronger language I learned in the Marine Corps, but I want to respect John and Mike's wishes about cussing.)
    Over the years, I have heard this little statement made in several ways and it always reminds me of this. The camel's nose under the tent will soon be followed by his whole body.. along with his insidious friends.

    This is how rights are slowly eroded to the point where they no longer exist. And worse, it is how despotic agencies and governments condition their masters (us) into thinking that, "well I have nothing to hide so why should I worry". All evil encroachments by governments have started in this manner.

    So the next time someone asks this simple little question of you, or makes the comment in a "matter of fact" way, remind them, "I bet the Jews of Germany thought the same thing in the earlier 30's". See how that sets with them.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    wait....

    someone joins here, waits 12 days and posts this as a first post, with no real story as to why they are posting it?

    and then we dont hear a reply all day from them?

    sum'n smells fishy!


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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Lets just say the OP is true and that no important facts have been left out. Lets just say.

    I hope that fussy cop who was posting a few days ago "if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind cooperating" reads this thread.

    And some cops wonder why some of us feel strongly againstnotifying.

    Sheesh. (Actually I would usestronger language I learned in the Marine Corps, but I want to respect John and Mike's wishes about cussing.)
    Over the years, I have heard this little statement made in several ways and it always reminds me of this. The camel's nose under the tent will soon be followed by his whole body.. along with his insidious friends.

    This is how rights are slowly eroded to the point where they no longer exist. And worse, it is how despotic agencies and governments condition their masters (us) into thinking that, "well I have nothing to hide so why should I worry". All evil encroachments by governments have started in this manner.

    So the next time someone asks this simple little question of you, or makes the comment in a "matter of fact" way, remind them, "I bet the Jews of Germany thought the same thing in the earlier 30's". See how that sets with them.
    I've yet to read the entire thing (I've been meaning to), but there is a good essay about the "I've got nothing to hide" argument and other issues of privacy. It's located here http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...ract_id=998565
    It's a PDF. Click download (above the "I've got nothing to hide....." title) and then choose a location to download it from. I think a lot of you will enjoy reading it

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Richmond, Virginia, USA
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    324

    Post imported post

    ProShooter wrote:
    wait....

    someone joins here, waits 12 days and posts this as a first post, with no real story as to why they are posting it?

    and then we dont hear a reply all day from them?

    sum'n smells fishy!

    I agree. Especially as the OP's handle is dilligaf, and if you don't know DILLIGAF is an acronym for "Do I Look Like I Give A F***".

    This don't sit right with me boss.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
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    Post imported post

    Thank you all for your comments supporting and conflicting. I am also prior law enforcement. Some of the most important lessons we learned in training were the use of force continuum, use of lethal or deadly and weapon retention. First as a law enforcement officer you are only allowed to use the amount of force necessary to control a situation. Lethal or deadly force is only applicable in a situation that is life threatening where you or someone faces serious bodily injury because of someone’s ill will.

    Second a majority of officers killed in the line of duty are killed with their own weapon. So weapon retention is a very big part of a defensive tactics program in any law enforcement agency. No law enforcement training academy would teach you to break the retention on your holster unless lethal force is applicable.

    Furthermore I was arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon and my weapon was seized. I am not releasing the officer’s name over privacy concerns out of respect for a public servant.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
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    Post imported post

    ProShooter wrote:
    wait....

    someone joins here, waits 12 days and posts this as a first post, with no real story as to why they are posting it?

    and then we dont hear a reply all day from them?

    sum'n smells fishy!

    I am sorry i dont have the luxury of sitting on my computer all day as some people do, i am not afforded this opportunity to do so. Second, the join date and my post date has nothing to do with anything. I was unsure if i was going to post this because it is an ongoing matter, and i thought this was a forum concerning open carrying of handguns. Please forgive me for not seeking prior approval of your greatness.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member
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    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
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    18,766

    Post imported post

    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    SNIP "if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind cooperating"
    "I bet the Jews of Germany thought the same thing in the earlier 30's". See how that sets with them.
    That's a good one.

    The best I've been able to come up with is, "Officer, the 4th (or 5th) Amendment was written exactly forpeople with nothing to hide/who are doing nothing wrong."

    Shorter version: "Officer, rights are specifically designed to protect people with nothing to hide."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
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    Jan 2009
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    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
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    Post imported post

    Devils Advocate wrote:
    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    I don't think someone can leave out their impressions of a situation like that. In the end with only two witnesses, it will come down to the facts falling somewhere between the arresting officer's impressions and the original poster's impressions of what happened.

    My $.02.
    I think it would be appropriate to state you were hurt, offended, embarrassed, or something like that.

    But to post what your thoughts on what you believed the officer was doing is pointless to me. We can all have our own thoughts and speculate on what someone is going to say or do.



    To: SergeantX Virginia Beach Police Professional Standards

    From: dilligaf

    About: Officer X Police Misconduct


    On the night of Saturday January 3, 2009 Officer X of Virginia Beach Police Department stopped me on Northhampton Boulevard right past Diamond Spring Road. Before Officer x approached my vehicle I rolled down my driver’s side front window turned to him and put both of my hands out of the window. Upon approaching my driver’s side of my car he already had his right hand on his weapon and a flashlight in his left. He then instructed me to roll down all of my windows and to hand him my driver’s license and registration. I handed these items to him and returned to my original position with both hands out the window. When he fully approached my car Officer X asked me, if I had any weapons in the car I replied “yes I have my weapon right here” and turned my hips to give him a better visual of my right hip and I still remain with both my hands out the window.

    Officer x at this point then grabs for his weapon and releases the retention as if he were going to shoot me. The officer did not do this to be stern but this was intended as a threat of lethal force. As a peace officer this was a poor response to escalate this situation to use of lethal or deadly force in a situation where it is completely not necessary and these actions are in direct non-compliance with the Department of Criminal Justice Services Performance Outcomes, Training Objectives Criteria and Lesson Plan Guide for Compulsory Minimum Training Standards for Law Enforcement Officers Section 6.6.3C and 6.6.3E. These events all occurred in a matter of 15-20 seconds but it only takes a split second to become a casualty of a reckless cop’s mistake. Officer X then goes on to arrest me carrying for a concealed weapon that was not concealed.

    I own a Glock Model 22, which I was caring in a Blackhawk Serpa Holster. That’s a full-sized Glock .40 caliber in a bulky paddle style holster. I am a 6’5’’ black male at around 260 lbs with a slender/muscular build. I was wearing a 3XL black hooded sweatshirt that was unzipped and a 3XL fruit of the loom white t-shirt. For my size my clothes were pretty small and in no way did I attempt to cover, conceal or mask the appearance of my weapon and also made my best effort to let him know that I was caring a weapon upon him approaching my car. After the officer invoked the arrest, I continued to comply with all of his orders he began to yell at me and pulled my arm as if he were trying to drag me out of the car. I told him “ officer I have on a seatbelt and I am not going to reach over to and unhook it unless you remove my weapon.” He then had his fellow officer come through my back seat and remove my weapon and unhook my seatbelt.

    Still with both hands up being completely submissive to the officer’s commands I then step out of my car. Officer x then bends my arm until my thumb touches the gap in my back between my shoulder blades and applies restraints by slapping them on my left wrist first then applying the other cuff to my right. OfficerX then walks me to the back of my car pushing me against the car and kicking my feet and searching me while his fellow officer searches my car. Being that I was uncomfortable with the way that I was being treated I requested to see a supervisor.

    This whole ordeal was over in a matter of 10 minutes but I have to go on with the memory of being treated like a criminal and the embarrassment for the rest of my life. I do not know if I match a certain profile that OfficerX has a bias against or what motivated him to treat me this way but this misconduct should not be tolerated.

    Respectfully submitted
    The areas I was talking about I made bold. I used italics to indicatethe fluff that could have been left out and were unnecessary.


    In all and working only with the poster'sdetails it seems a little strange to be charged since for concealed carry wen we have all known people to open carry in their car.

    Best of luck to you!!
    The reason i put this in the complaint is when i called the officers supervisor is because they simply tried to cover for him like it was a non issue and standard procedure of how things are supposed to work. I understand about sticking to the facts but it was necessary to state my reason of why i was filing a complaint in the first place. The facts will be shown in court and i expect to be fully vindicated from this event.

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