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police miisconduct and false arrest while open carrying

Spectre

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Jan 6, 2008
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ProShooter wrote:
wait....

someone joins here, waits 12 days and posts this as a first post, with no real story as to why they are posting it?

and then we dont hear a reply all day from them?

sum'n smells fishy!

I agree. Especially as the OP's handle is dilligaf, and if you don't know DILLIGAF is an acronym for "Do I Look Like I Give A F***".

This don't sit right with me boss.
 

dilligaf

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Norfolk, Virginia, USA
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Thank you all for your comments supporting and conflicting. I am also prior law enforcement. Some of the most important lessons we learned in training were the use of force continuum, use of lethal or deadly and weapon retention. First as a law enforcement officer you are only allowed to use the amount of force necessary to control a situation. Lethal or deadly force is only applicable in a situation that is life threatening where you or someone faces serious bodily injury because of someone’s ill will.

Second a majority of officers killed in the line of duty are killed with their own weapon. So weapon retention is a very big part of a defensive tactics program in any law enforcement agency. No law enforcement training academy would teach you to break the retention on your holster unless lethal force is applicable.

Furthermore I was arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon and my weapon was seized. I am not releasing the officer’s name over privacy concerns out of respect for a public servant.
 

dilligaf

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ProShooter wrote:
wait....

someone joins here, waits 12 days and posts this as a first post, with no real story as to why they are posting it?

and then we dont hear a reply all day from them?

sum'n smells fishy!
I am sorry i dont have the luxury of sitting on my computer all day as some people do, i am not afforded this opportunity to do so. Second, the join date and my post date has nothing to do with anything. I was unsure if i was going to post this because it is an ongoing matter, and i thought this was a forum concerning open carrying of handguns. Please forgive me for not seeking prior approval of your greatness.
 

Citizen

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SouthernBoy wrote:
Citizen wrote:
SNIP "if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind cooperating"
"I bet the Jews of Germany thought the same thing in the earlier 30's". See how that sets with them.

That's a good one.

The best I've been able to come up with is, "Officer, the 4th (or 5th) Amendment was written exactly for people with nothing to hide/who are doing nothing wrong."

Shorter version: "Officer, rights are specifically designed to protect people with nothing to hide."
 

dilligaf

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Devils Advocate wrote:
SaltH2OHokie wrote:
I don't think someone can leave out their impressions of a situation like that. In the end with only two witnesses, it will come down to the facts falling somewhere between the arresting officer's impressions and the original poster's impressions of what happened.

My $.02.
I think it would be appropriate to state you were hurt, offended, embarrassed, or something like that.

But to post what your thoughts on what you believed the officer was doing is pointless to me. We can all have our own thoughts and speculate on what someone is going to say or do.



To: SergeantX Virginia Beach Police Professional Standards

From: dilligaf

About: Officer X Police Misconduct


On the night of Saturday January 3, 2009 Officer X of Virginia Beach Police Department stopped me on Northhampton Boulevard right past Diamond Spring Road. Before Officer x approached my vehicle I rolled down my driver’s side front window turned to him and put both of my hands out of the window. Upon approaching my driver’s side of my car he already had his right hand on his weapon and a flashlight in his left. He then instructed me to roll down all of my windows and to hand him my driver’s license and registration. I handed these items to him and returned to my original position with both hands out the window. When he fully approached my car Officer X asked me, if I had any weapons in the car I replied “yes I have my weapon right here” and turned my hips to give him a better visual of my right hip and I still remain with both my hands out the window.

Officer x at this point then grabs for his weapon and releases the retention as if he were going to shoot me. The officer did not do this to be stern but this was intended as a threat of lethal force. As a peace officer this was a poor response to escalate this situation to use of lethal or deadly force in a situation where it is completely not necessary and these actions are in direct non-compliance with the Department of Criminal Justice Services Performance Outcomes, Training Objectives Criteria and Lesson Plan Guide for Compulsory Minimum Training Standards for Law Enforcement Officers Section 6.6.3C and 6.6.3E. These events all occurred in a matter of 15-20 seconds but it only takes a split second to become a casualty of a reckless cop’s mistake. Officer X then goes on to arrest me carrying for a concealed weapon that was not concealed.

I own a Glock Model 22, which I was caring in a Blackhawk Serpa Holster. That’s a full-sized Glock .40 caliber in a bulky paddle style holster. I am a 6’5’’ black male at around 260 lbs with a slender/muscular build. I was wearing a 3XL black hooded sweatshirt that was unzipped and a 3XL fruit of the loom white t-shirt. For my size my clothes were pretty small and in no way did I attempt to cover, conceal or mask the appearance of my weapon and also made my best effort to let him know that I was caring a weapon upon him approaching my car. After the officer invoked the arrest, I continued to comply with all of his orders he began to yell at me and pulled my arm as if he were trying to drag me out of the car. I told him “ officer I have on a seatbelt and I am not going to reach over to and unhook it unless you remove my weapon.” He then had his fellow officer come through my back seat and remove my weapon and unhook my seatbelt.

Still with both hands up being completely submissive to the officer’s commands I then step out of my car. Officer x then bends my arm until my thumb touches the gap in my back between my shoulder blades and applies restraints by slapping them on my left wrist first then applying the other cuff to my right. OfficerX then walks me to the back of my car pushing me against the car and kicking my feet and searching me while his fellow officer searches my car. Being that I was uncomfortable with the way that I was being treated I requested to see a supervisor.

This whole ordeal was over in a matter of 10 minutes but I have to go on with the memory of being treated like a criminal and the embarrassment for the rest of my life. I do not know if I match a certain profile that OfficerX has a bias against or what motivated him to treat me this way but this misconduct should not be tolerated.

Respectfully submitted
The areas I was talking about I made bold. I used italics to indicatethe fluff that could have been left out and were unnecessary.


In all and working only with the poster'sdetails it seems a little strange to be charged since for concealed carry wen we have all known people to open carry in their car.

Best of luck to you!!
The reason i put this in the complaint is when i called the officers supervisor is because they simply tried to cover for him like it was a non issue and standard procedure of how things are supposed to work. I understand about sticking to the facts but it was necessary to state my reason of why i was filing a complaint in the first place. The facts will be shown in court and i expect to be fully vindicated from this event.
 

Grapeshot

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There is a lot that is not known regarding this. We have one side, not the others and no apparent witnesses. I will need to reserve judgment until the verdict is returned.

I for one would never have posted the particulars publicly were I pursuing legal redress.

Yata hey
 

curtiswr

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Jul 11, 2008
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Richmond, VA, ,
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dilligaf wrote:
ProShooter wrote:
wait....

someone joins here, waits 12 days and posts this as a first post, with no real story as to why they are posting it?

and then we dont hear a reply all day from them?

sum'n smells fishy!
I am sorry i dont have the luxury of sitting on my computer all day as some people do, i am not afforded this opportunity to do so. Second, the join date and my post date has nothing to do with anything. I was unsure if i was going to post this because it is an ongoing matter, and i thought this was a forum concerning open carrying of handguns. Please forgive me for not seeking prior approval of your greatness.
Calm down. There's been a lot of tension lately regarding threads about police officers and LEOs in general, so it is, for those of us that have been here through it, a legitimate concern that it could be a troll attempt. Just bear with us, and I'm sure we can offer the same courtesy.

Have you FOIA'd anything regarding the stop?
 

DrMark

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Hampton Roads, Virginia, USA
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Welcome to the forum, dilligaf. :)

Since you didn't fill out the location in your profile, would we be wrong in assuming (based on your story) that you're in Virginia Beach, VA or that vacinity (e.g. the Hampton Roads area)?
 

IanB

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How can the officer charge you with a concealed charge when you TOLD him about the weapon? This officer did bad in this case and you should (at a minimum) be pushing for the charge to be dropped, the arrest record expunged, appology from the Chief, and RETRAINING for all officers in the Dept concerning open carry, when it is and is not concealed etc.
 

tito887

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"Furthermore I was arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon and my weapon was seized. I am not releasing the officer’s name over privacy concerns out of respect for a public servant. "


Why would you give him any respect after this unlawful conduct. You should plaster his name everywhere so that the community can make phone calls and write angry letters until these charges are dropped. That's why we have this forum and groups like VCDL. This type of grassroots activism is very powerful and can stop these type of practices from happening in the future.
 

Grapeshot

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DrMark wrote:
Welcome to the forum, dilligaf. :)

Since you didn't fill out the location in your profile, would we be wrong in assuming (based on your story) that you're in Virginia Beach, VA or that vacinity (e.g. the Hampton Roads area)?
Digital recorder would have been worth its weight in gold.

Unless I am mistaken, I think Virginia Beach PD cars are equipped with camcorders. A simple FOIA request could solve your problem.

Yata hey
 

2a4all

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Citizen wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
Citizen wrote:
SNIP "if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind cooperating"
"I bet the Jews of Germany thought the same thing in the earlier 30's". See how that sets with them.

That's a good one.

The best I've been able to come up with is, "Officer, the 4th (or 5th) Amendment was written exactly for people with nothing to hide/who are doing nothing wrong."

Shorter version: "Officer, rights are specifically designed to protect people with nothing to hide."
Perhaps a less confrontational response to the "...nothing to hide..." query might be "I have nothing to share with you."
 

Repeater

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Nov 5, 2007
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Richmond, Virginia, USA
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Grapeshot wrote:
DrMark wrote:
Welcome to the forum, dilligaf. :)

Since you didn't fill out the location in your profile, would we be wrong in assuming (based on your story) that you're in Virginia Beach, VA or that vacinity (e.g. the Hampton Roads area)?
Digital recorder would have been worth its weight in gold.

Unless I am mistaken, I think Virginia Beach PD cars are equipped with camcorders. A simple FOIA request could solve your problem.

Yata hey
Well, that assumes the PD will honor the FOIA request. They don't have to. If they don't want to, they won't.
 

Citizen

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Repeater wrote:
SNIP Well, that assumes the PD will honor the FOIA request. They don't have to. If they don't want to, they won't.

In fact, there is a FOIA exemption for on-going criminal investigations or prosecutions.

I'll see if I can dig up the cite and quote.

Edited to Add:

Here it is:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+2.2-3706

§ 2.2-3706. Disclosure of criminal records; limitations.

A. As used in this section:

"Criminal incident information" means a general description of the criminal activity reported, the date and general location the alleged crime was committed, the identity of the investigating officer, and a general description of any injuries suffered or property damaged or stolen.

B. Law-enforcement agencies shall make available upon request criminal incident information relating to felony offenses. However, where the release of criminal incident information is likely to jeopardize an ongoing investigation or prosecution, or the safety of an individual; cause a suspect to flee or evade detection; or result in the destruction of evidence, such information may be withheld until the above-referenced damage is no longer likely to occur from release of the information. Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to prohibit the release of those portions of such information that are not likely to cause the above-referenced damage.

C. [There is more to this statute. Its worth reading so you have some idea before you need or want to senda FOIA request. ]



Now, we can argue all day whether Dilligaf's situation fits the statutory exemption or not. The bottom line isn't what you and I think, its what the police decide to construe from it. And, if they don't want to release the information, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure outhow they are going to construe the statute.

If they don't want to release it, and the county or city attorney supports them, it will take a court order to pry it loose. Except that occasionally, the FOI Advisory Council can get an agency to change their mind if they are clearly in error. And sometimes the FOI Advisory Council can write anopinion. I don't recall that these opinions are binding, butgovernmentagencies have been known to give them consideration and weight.
 

useful_idiot

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Stop trying to get information, clarification or "resolve" this on your own. Do not speak another word on this event until you retain a criminal attorney.

Once clear of the charges you will begin litigation against the city, the department and the officer personally so they can pay for their mistake.

:cool:

... or the OP is a troll.
 

Sheriff

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useful_idiot wrote:
Stop trying to get information, clarification or "resolve" this on your own. Do not speak another word on this event until you retain a criminal attorney.

Once clear of the charges you will begin litigation against the city, the department and the officer personally so they can pay for their mistake.
BINGO! We have a winner!
 

Citizen

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2a4all wrote:
Citizen wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
Citizen wrote:
SNIP "if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind cooperating"
"I bet the Jews of Germany thought the same thing in the earlier 30's". See how that sets with them.

That's a good one.

The best I've been able to come up with is, "Officer, the 4th (or 5th) Amendment was written exactly for people with nothing to hide/who are doing nothing wrong."

Shorter version: "Officer, rights are specifically designed to protect people with nothing to hide."
Perhaps a less confrontational response to the "...nothing to hide..." query might be "I have nothing to share with you."

That was my less confrontational version! :)

The confrontational version goes:

"Officer, rights aredesigned specifically to protect people with nothing to hide. WTF, were you asleep in civics class? Or, did you think I was asleep in civics class?"

:)
 

peter nap

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ProShooter wrote:
wait....

someone joins here, waits 12 days and posts this as a first post, with no real story as to why they are posting it?

and then we dont hear a reply all day from them?

sum'n smells fishy!
I thought the same thing.
I hate those Officer X posts.
 

dilligaf

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Jan 8, 2009
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Norfolk, Virginia, USA
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Thank you all for your support and comments. In this message I have attached a copy of what my FOIA request got me. As for you all who think that I am trying to cast a negative image of the police officer I just want to inform the ignorant to a term used in law enforcement. When a gun is utilized by a police officer in the line of duty (and I'm not talking about breaching a door with a shotgun) it is called “LETHAL FORCE”. So by me saying that he grabbed for his weapon as if he were going to shoot me, that is me reminding you what this tool is used for so you can question why was it even bought into play. So anyone who has had a gun pulled on them to serve them ice cream please post that story so that this man has a legitimate excuse to refer to this tool of bubbles and bunnies. Perhaps if this were you or one of your children in my situation you would not feel that way.
 

Doug Huffman

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dilligaf wrote:
Thank you all for your support and comments. In this message I have attached a copy of what my FOIA request got me.
It appears that your request was properly answered. Unfortunately you made an exceedingly specific request as is not, as I understand, required. Hopefully others better versed in VA law will suggest better requests - that may yet be made if the OP is interested in justice as a result of this event.
 
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