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Thread: OC in your car Manassas, VA and you will get arrested

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    OC in your car Manassas, VA and you will get arrested.. sooner or later..


    The other day I decided to drop into Hatfield's Gunsmithing in Manassas to have my old Millet Combat sites (from my Marine Corps days) removed from my 10mm Delta Elite and have Trijicon Night sites put on instead.

    I talked to the giunsmith, Sam Hatfield. Young guy.. served in the army and was a gunsmith in the Army too.. 1911's are his specialty. I asked if he was a VCDL member and if he monitored these boards.. "No" to both but he had "friends" that were members of both. I offered him a small stack of Ed's Open Carry Cards and as he read them he was taken aback by the line "OC in a vehicle is ok". He said "that one right there will get you arrested!"

    I said that I think he was misinformed as I said we (all you guys on OC and me) do this all the time every day and we don't get arrested (except for Danbus). And he said that sooner or later you will get arrested for OC in a car.

    I said.. ok.. we will have to agree to disagree on this point and continue to be friends and gun advocates. He is also a firearms instructor and teaches classes for chp permits. I wonder if anyone here has ever taken his class and knows if he discourages OC all the time.

    Anyway.. I found it interesting and thought you might as well.

    Ed
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    OC in your car Manassas, VA and you will get arrested.. sooner or later..


    The other day I decided to drop into Hatfield's Gunsmithing in Manassas to have my old Millet Combat sites (from my Marine Corps days) removed from my 10mm Delta Elite and have Trijicon Night sites put on instead.

    I talked to the giunsmith, Sam Hatfield. Young guy.. served in the army and was a gunsmith in the Army too.. 1911's are his specialty. I asked if he was a VCDL member and if he monitored these boards.. "No" to both but he had "friends" that were members of both. I offered him a small stack of Ed's Open Carry Cards and as he read them he was taken aback by the line "OC in a vehicle is ok". He said "that one right there will get you arrested!"

    I said that I think he was misinformed as I said we (all you guys on OC and me) do this all the time every day and we don't get arrested (except for Danbus). And he said that sooner or later you will get arrested for OC in a car.

    I said.. ok.. we will have to agree to disagree on this point and continue to be friends and gun advocates. He is also a firearms instructor and teaches classes for chp permits. I wonder if anyone here has ever taken his class and knows if he discourages OC all the time.

    Anyway.. I found it interesting and thought you might as well.

    Ed
    We're you OCing? I guess letting go of long held beliefs in the face of facts is something that even gun advocates can have a problem with. To me when I find I've been wrong about something that allows me more freedom I tend to jump at it :^). Which could also be a problem I suppose.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    He is also a firearms instructor and teaches classes for chp permits.

    oh great....more bad info being relayed to the uninformed.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Well all I see is that he believes one form of OC is illegal, not that OC is wrong. There is a difference. Just goes to show that we still have work to do to inform folks about our OC right. I wish I could keep track of statistics regarding how many of my customers think OC is illegal or that they wouldn't exercise it out of fear. Because it really is a lot of folks.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Maybe I missed something, nothing in your post suggest that this person is a Gun Advocate.
    The fact that he works in the industry doesn't mean he supports our rights, he is just making a living.

    IMHO, people who work in the industry should be are strongest supporters, OC, CC, FA etc..

    Without us they would be on the unemployment line or in another line of work.

    IMHO, paying memberships dues makes you a sponsor (major or minor) but not an advocate.

    From my point of view he is just another person expressing a opinion and stating it as fact.

    Maybe he's related to the alleged Retired Marine who called the police on the Tony's 7?


    Rant off
    [line]


    Did you invite him to attend the VCDL meeting this month 1/22 in NoVA?
    [line]
    Might consider sending him an email regarding the Tony's incident ordirect him to our recent lobby day activities.
    Videos of people OC'ing at the State Capitolshould enlighten him.
    [line]

    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Neplusultra wrote:
    We're you OCing?
    Of course.. and went around the corner to the grille for lunch with no issues at all.. The manager welcomed me.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Agent19 wrote:
    Maybe I missed something, nothing in your post suggest that this person is a Gun Advocate.
    The fact that he works in the industry doesn't mean he supports our rights, he is just making a living.

    IMHO, people who work in the industry should be are strongest supporters, OC, CC, FA etc..

    Without us they would be on the unemployment line or in another line of work.

    IMHO, paying memberships dues makes you a sponsor (major or minor) but not an advocate.

    From my point of view he is just another person expressing a opinion and stating it as fact.
    +1 to all of the above.. Especially since he teaches OTHERS.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    ProShooter wrote:
    ed wrote:
    He is also a firearms instructor and teaches classes for chp permits.

    oh great....more bad info being relayed to the uninformed.
    I wonder if he is another "concealed means concealed" to students when going into restaurants

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    Demonstrating that a good faith error is better than a bald opinion that may not be questioned without charges of attack ad hominem and bashing.

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    Just like many myths, it could take a while dispel it. Hell some people think the Earth is flat.

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    My CHP instructor also strongly discouraged OC. He said something along the lines of "it's technically legal, maybe, but in practice if you ever do it you will be arrested and have to sort things out at the jail."

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    GWRedDragon wrote:
    My CHP instructor also strongly discouraged OC. He said something along the lines of "it's technically legal, maybe, but in practice if you ever do it you will be arrested and have to sort things out at the jail."
    Like where to spend the $10-15K additional income?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member razor_baghdad's Avatar
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    10-15k is a low estimate and a pre-trial settlement IMHO.

    When we get to the 6 figure stuff, the untrained LEO's will have a decision to make.

    Again, I'm not anti-LEO, I just want the Va public to know their rights.

    Please do not take this as an anti-Police rant. If this thread goes that way, I apologize in advance. If it came to a situation on the street and an LEO was in trouble, the bad guys would eat a double-tap and we'll figure out the who-what-where later.

    I don't OC looking for a settlement, I OC because I'm proud of my rights and wish to extend them to all who are unaware of their right to protect themselves.



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    razor_baghdad wrote:
    SNIP I don't OC looking for a settlement, I OC because I'm proud of my rights and wish to extend them to all who are unaware of their right to protect themselves.

    Did you catch the wording in one of the other threads? Nice twist on the anti-s spin.

    "[Carrying a gun to exercize]theirrightto be safe."

    I'm gonna use this one. Nice presumption. Steals thepremise back--where it belonged all along.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    ed wrote:
    Agent19 wrote:
    Maybe I missed something, nothing in your post suggest that this person is a Gun Advocate.
    The fact that he works in the industry doesn't mean he supports our rights, he is just making a living.

    IMHO, people who work in the industry should be are strongest supporters, OC, CC, FA etc..

    Without us they would be on the unemployment line or in another line of work.

    IMHO, paying memberships dues makes you a sponsor (major or minor) but not an advocate.

    From my point of view he is just another person expressing a opinion and stating it as fact.
    +1 to all of the above.. Especially since he teaches OTHERS.
    I bet he calls it a weapon too!

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    nova wrote:
    ed wrote:
    Agent19 wrote:
    Maybe I missed something, nothing in your post suggest that this person is a Gun Advocate.
    The fact that he works in the industry doesn't mean he supports our rights, he is just making a living.

    IMHO, people who work in the industry should be are strongest supporters, OC, CC, FA etc..

    Without us they would be on the unemployment line or in another line of work.

    IMHO, paying memberships dues makes you a sponsor (major or minor) but not an advocate.

    From my point of view he is just another person expressing a opinion and stating it as fact.
    +1 to all of the above.. Especially since he teaches OTHERS.
    I bet he calls it a weapon too!
    Well, what do you call it?

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    nova wrote:
    ed wrote:
    Agent19 wrote:
    Maybe I missed something, nothing in your post suggest that this person is a Gun Advocate.
    The fact that he works in the industry doesn't mean he supports our rights, he is just making a living.

    IMHO, people who work in the industry should be are strongest supporters, OC, CC, FA etc..

    Without us they would be on the unemployment line or in another line of work.

    IMHO, paying memberships dues makes you a sponsor (major or minor) but not an advocate.

    From my point of view he is just another person expressing a opinion and stating it as fact.
    +1 to all of the above.. Especially since he teaches OTHERS.
    I bet he calls it a weapon too!
    Well, what do you call it?
    Any and all of the accepted terms. I was just having some fun since apparently NRA instructors are told not to use the "w" word in their classes because they feel it is an "offensive" word (in the sense it is not defensive)

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    Oh, I see. As far as I'm concerned, unless it's a staple gun or a caulk gun it's a weapon. Sounds very NRA-ish, though.

  19. #19
    Lone Star Veteran Hokie's Avatar
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    Just because you are arrested does not make it illegal. LEOs can make mistakes, Starbucks incident anyone.
    "Capitalism and communism stand at opposite poles. Their essential difference is this: The communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: 'No man should have so much.' The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.'"- Phelps Adams

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Oh, I see. As far as I'm concerned, unless it's a staple gun or a caulk gun it's a weapon. Sounds very NRA-ish, though.
    I wonder if they say, "Don't call it a weapon." Or if they recommend calling it something else.

    I've met plenty of people who confuse the latter with the former, especially in relaying the information. Yet, there is a world of difference. The latter is more a suggestion to take advantage of connotationswords have.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  21. #21
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    Hokie wrote:
    SNIP Just because you are arrested does not make it illegal. LEOs can make mistakes...
    Hence the 6th Amendment.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    Oh, I see. As far as I'm concerned, unless it's a staple gun or a caulk gun it's a weapon. Sounds very NRA-ish, though.
    I wonder if they say, "Don't call it a weapon." Or if they recommend calling it something else.

    I've met plenty of people who confuse the latter with the former, especially in relaying the information. Yet, there is a world of difference. The latter is more a suggestion to take advantage of connotationswords have.
    About 15 years ago, my son, while he was still in elementary school, joined the Quantico Shooting Club and participated in thier junior matches. One of the instructors/coaches set up a tour for the youngsters of the FBI Academy (this is before everything was fenced off). I was accompanying the youngsters and being active duty at the time, I referred to firearms as "weapons". I was promptly admonished by the NRA certified instructor. "WE" don't call them weapons because of the negative connotation of the word. At the time I accepted it because the NRA was all knowing and all seeing and all understanding. The NRA has its own agenda.

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    kaiheitai17 wrote:
    SNIP I was promptly admonished by the NRA certified instructor. "WE" don't call them weapons because of the negative connotation of the word. At the time I accepted it because the NRA was all knowing and all seeing and all understanding. The NRA has its own agenda.
    Sounds like some of themlost track of the difference between theirPR tacticand fact. As in, PR is for the target audience.The vocabulary doesn't need to be changed for discussion among members of the gun world.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    hello, i am sam hatfield. owner of the store mentioned in this thread. i came across this online and felt the need to defend myself. this thread is very much like the "telephone" game i remember from childhood. misinterprtation and assumption. i made no mention of legality at all. nor did i "choose a side" during the conversation. my only comment after seeing the card was that "Open carry in your car very well could getyou arrested."i repeated this exact thing several times. not my fault you didnt understand what i was saying. what is legal and what is likely to happen are sadly not oftenone in the same. you asked several questions that were leading. ioffered you no answer to these questions, just repeated what i had already stated.dont fill in the blanks for me. i speak on this issue from personal experience. MY personal experience. not everyone wants to spend hours getting processed (not to mention time in court if needed- and it was). at that time, i was not aware that being right could be so costly.i was giving you friendly advice and recived an onlineslandering for my troubles. thanks.

    i have been quotedCORRECTLY in the washington post and infantry magazine if anyone cares to look. you can find both online.

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Thanks for coming on to defend yourself, it is beneficial to get both sides of the argument.

    As we all benefit from each others experience here, what was your circumstance that led to the conclusion that you could get arrested for OCing in a car?

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