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Thread: Southern regional police (york county)

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    I emailed the southern regional police chief and acted dumb to see what he said, i asked if open carry was legal? He replied that the police dept doesnt recomend it.

    I email back and said i didnt ask if they like it i asked if it was legal, he said yes but they could still give me a ticket for disturbing the peace and terroristic threats.

    I emailed back with the court case where that went to court and the staste lost, he email me back and said i was right.

    I asked if his police officers would give me any problems if i open carry and he said he would have a meeting with them and advise them that open carry was legal

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    bassmaster17327 wrote:
    I emailed the southern regional police chief and acted dumb to see what he said, i asked if open carry was legal? He replied that the police dept doesnt recomend it.

    I email back and said i didnt ask if they like it i asked if it was legal, he said yes but they could still give me a ticket for disturbing the peace and terroristic threats.

    I emailed back with the court case where that went to court and the staste lost, he email me back and said i was right.

    I asked if his police officers would give me any problems if i open carry and he said he would have a meeting with them and advise them that open carry was legal
    Well done!
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    bassmaster17327 wrote:
    I emailed the southern regional police chief and acted dumb to see what he said, i asked if open carry was legal?
    Why do folks keep doing this? The police are not here to give legal advice.

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    that is there job to tell you laws, what do you think they are here for and get paid to do. people forget that its police job to HELP the law abiding citizen

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    Mike wrote:
    bassmaster17327 wrote:
    I emailed the southern regional police chief and acted dumb to see what he said, i asked if open carry was legal?
    Why do folks keep doing this? The police are not here to give legal advice.
    Mike,

    Maybe if you could give us a somewhat more expansive explanation, we could understand.

    For myself, I cannot disagree that its smart to see where the local police stand on the issue. It sure beats the surprise cost of a legal defense and expungement to find out the hard way.

    Also, some people have called the police in order to aquire the legal advice--clearly not a good idea. But a good number of posters already knew OC was legal and were calling to find out the police position and level of training. There is, to my mind, a distinction between the two.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    bassmaster17327 wrote:
    SNIP I asked if his police officers would give me any problems if i open carry and he said he would have a meeting with them and advise them that open carry was legal

    At the risk of antagonizing an Admin*, well done on taking the initiative to clear things up with the police.

    I should like to contributeadditional clarifications for the chief.

    I urge you to e-mail him one more time and let him know the dispatchers are just as important as his officers. Dispatchers need to be trained to not assume that a "man with a gun" call automatically means criminal. Dispatchers need to find out if the gun is holstered, whether the person is doing anything suspicious,tell the caller that mere OC is not illegal, etc. And relaya complete report tothe officer in the patrol car.

    Also, and perhaps even more important,it wouldn't hurt to ask the chief to train his officers on the connection between legal OC and the 4th and 5th Amendment. We've had plenty of trouble from police who knew OC was legal, but disagreed with it, and pushed, sometimeshard, on 4A and 5A rights to harass the OCer. So, maybe that is the angle I would use--no harassing OCers by pushing on their 4A rights. No pretext stops. No extra-legal demands for LTCF's when unneeded for OC. No illegal ID demands. No non-consensual questioning after a search or seizure refusal without genuine RAS, or questioning after 5A is invoked.Gently let him know we're wise to methods some policeuse in attempting toworm their way around the 4A and5A. We not only know our 2A rights, but our 4A and 5A rights.

    * http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/admin.htm

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    What is the court case you sent to him?

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    ortiz vs commonwealth and commonwealth vs hawkins

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    bassmaster17327 wrote:
    that is there job to tell you laws, what do you think they are here for and get paid to do. people forget that its police job to HELP the law abiding citizen
    Wrong. It is their job to ENFORCE the laws, not give you legal advice. That is what Lawyers are for. I do 100% agree that they need to know the laws, but it isn't their job to interpret them for you.



    I also believe that 911 Dispatchers should be aware of Open Carry law, that would probably do a lot to stop needless resposes to non-crimes if the operator could vet the situation over the phone.

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    you are wrong, it is the police chief job to deal with the public and be imformative. if they are too lazy to talk to a person about state laws then they shouldnt be the chief

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    I disagree, but we can leave it at that.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    bassmaster17327 wrote:
    I emailed the southern regional police chief and acted dumb to see what he said, i asked if open carry was legal?
    Why do folks keep doing this? The police are not here to give legal advice.
    Mike,

    Maybe if you could give us a somewhat more expansive explanation, we could understand.

    For myself, I cannot disagree that its smart to see where the local police stand on the issue.
    By asking the police for legal advice or conclusions of law, whatever you want to call it, you are placing yourself in a weak position by conceding that the police have any say in the matter and you will almost always going to get wrong or evasive answers, and frankly cause a problem where none exists.

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    Mike wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    bassmaster17327 wrote:
    By asking the police for legal advice or conclusions of law, whatever you want to call it, you are placing yourself in a weak position by conceding that the police have any say in the matter and you will almost always going to get wrong or evasive answers, and frankly cause a problem where none exists.
    +1

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    I allready knew the law, i was just asking to see what they would say and what his response would be when i said it was legal. it also casue dhim to have a meeting to tellt he officers that it was legal so i feel it worked out good. i agree that you shouldnt believe what the police say and find the law for yourself

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    Is this the chief out of the New Freedom office? I have heard he is very serious about contact with the community, and they put out this glossy booklet too. You would think he would be cool about OC, since OCing makes criminals slink away. But ya know how some cops are...

    I already had one of the SRPD officers ream me out about OC when I asked him what his dept knows about OC. He clearly didn't like it and kept going on an on about how he didn't like it. He acknowldged it was legal to do, but gave the same crap line about ticketing for disorderly/terroristic threats, and then even told me about some guy they escorted from the Shrewsbury carnival for wearing a .357 in a shoulder holster OC ( he added a bunch of the usual- " there are children here" crap lines). This is some guy who does firearms classes at Freedom Armory, didn't catch his name though. Same deal, I was asking what his dept knew about OC and got a pile of BS opinion instead.

    Anyway if anyone wants to OC with me in this area, let me know, we can see what if anything happens. Of greater interest is the rail trail where rangers are now informed OC is legal and legal carry in general is allowed in county parks, but the county parks protocol is forrangers to discourage OCing! The rail trail is very pretty in spring, if anyone wants to test to see if a ranger shows up or SRPD officers want to play the Dickson City Cop game. There's a cute lil cafe in the old train station in New Freedom, plus a pizza place nearby, also Bonkey's ice cream. OC and eat...

    ( btw I had 2 guys OCing at the New Freedom Restaurant on the Trail, and nothing happened LOL- the owners there more than likley don't mind- heck they saw me with them and they recognize me and my mother- the next time I went there after the 2 OCers were there, the one regular waitress was straining to look at my right hip, as if to see if I was OCing. I was LMAO inside)

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    the guy you talked to at freedom might have been James Boddington, he works there but is a SRPD liutenant. I open carry alot in the shrewsbury are havnt had many problems, got thrown out of walmart once but when i called and talked to store manager he apologized and said it wouldnt happen again. if you want to get together and do some OCing let me know, bassmaster17327@aol.com

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    Did you get thrown out of Walmart last april or thereabouts? I was there one day and saw a guy OCing and walking out really fast. Tall thin guy with loose light colored shirt draped around holster. I was in line, and couldn't bolt after him LOL.

    I also saw a guy OCing at the Sezchuan place by the Giant, he was getting carry out and had a little girl about 4 yrs old with him. That was about july/aug of 07. I was too dumbfounded to say anything to him LOL ( I was very new on the OC thing and stupidly enough was still afraid of guns then- I now own 4, though had 1 before then).

    Hey yeah, love to meet up with you and OC some time. Ever been to Nikola's cafe near the Goodwill where Main st and 851 from New Freedom meet? I think that's called " the square". Nikolas has great food, though a little more $, but worth it. I know the owners well enough too and have told them about OC being legal. The waitress Erin knows I carry.

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    I think it was longer ago than april, i dont really shop at walmart anymore becasue of their new policies that seem to be goin anti gun. i know where that place is but have never been there.

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    Mike wrote:
    By asking the police for legal advice or conclusions of law, whatever you want to call it, you are placing yourself in a weak position by conceding that the police have any say in the matter and you will almost always going to get wrong or evasive answers, and frankly cause a problem where none exists.
    My emphasis above.


    I disagree. I think it is perfectly appropriate to contact the police as the OP did.

    The police may not have a say in the law, but they certainly have a say in matters that matter a lot to me - illegal detention, arrest, taking of my property, etc. Sure, I will come out whole in the end, but why go through that - unless I am trying to do so?

    His contact has seemingly put the Chief on notice (which could be used against him in case he 'forgets'),and hopefully has short circuited one of his officers giving someone some extra-legal trouble.

    Given the level of knowledge (or more accurately lack of knowledge) that has repeatedly been demonstrated by LEOs regarding OC, I would characterize the contact as one designed to shortcut a problem where one *probably* exists.

    I'm not saying that one should mimic the OP's actions, rather I'm sayingthat for a person knowledgeable of the law (as the OP indicated he is), there isn't a downside to doing so.

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    Finally some one agrees with me! it wasnt that i was asking the police chief what the law was, it was more of me telling him that it was legal and making sure that the officers new the law. I was trying to avoid the problem of being harrased befor it happened

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    It's the same as when I asked the off duty cop from the same PD about what his dept knows about OC and I got a "yes we know it's legal", but I also got a barrage of BS of how he is against OC.



    I was also wanting to contact the local conservation officer about CC while hunting/trapping, using a FL lisc, and on OC a semi auto while hunting/trapping. Yes I know he may not know the law, but he ( and deputies) is the one who will be interpreting it. If I ask him about it, I can possibly get him to actually research it, then he will know for sure the regs and not harrass or detain me over his opinions.

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    It's the same as when I asked the off duty cop from the same PD about what his dept knows about OC and I got a "yes we know it's legal", but I also got a barrage of BS of how he is against OC.



    I was also wanting to contact the local conservation officer about CC while hunting/trapping, using a FL lisc, and on OC a semi auto while hunting/trapping. Yes I know he may not know the law, but he ( and deputies) is the one who will be interpreting it. If I ask him about it, I can possibly get him to actually research it, then he will know for sure the regs and not harrass or detain me over his opinions.

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    The game commision changed the law about two years ago to allow people with cwp to carry while hunting or legally spotlighting.I am unsure of oc

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    It's the same as when I asked the off duty cop from the same PD about what his dept knows about OC and I got a "yes we know it's legal", but I also got a barrage of BS of how he is against OC.



    I was also wanting to contact the local conservation officer about CC while hunting/trapping, using a FL lisc, and on OC a semi auto while hunting/trapping. Yes I know he may not know the law, but he ( and deputies) is the one who will be interpreting it. If I ask him about it, I can possibly get him to actually research it, then he will know for sure the regs and not harrass or detain me over his opinions.

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    Knowing several dispatchers in my area, and also one myself to a local police department, you can only give out to responding units what it given to you. There are more times than I can count, where your caller will be "flustered" and give you the "Just get the Police here now!!!" and hang up.

    I dont believe it would be smart to have a dispatcher tell a caller "open carry is legal". Just for the simple fact that what the caller tells you might not be what is actually happening. People who call 911 also often stretch, sometimes to a very long extent, what is happening. It very well could be someone walking down the street for an evening walk, having a holstered weapon, OC, and your caller might not be gun-friendly, and tell you something off the wall like "The guy is waving the gun around". Granted, dispatchers should have the training to gather that pertinent information and try and ask as many questions as possible to get a good, clear picture as to what's going on, and relay it to responding officers so they are best prepared to handle the incident upon arrival.

    Also something to consider is that, at least in my area, all local police departments are dispatcher by a county 911 center. Only 2 in my county are dispatcher by the department themselves, and I work for one of them. You try to get the most out of someone, however it doesnt always work that way, and upon a call back, they dont want to tell you anything else, for whatever reason(they didnt clearly see and dont want to admit it, they dont like it and want to embelish it to have something done about it, etc). There are alot of training classes out there for dispatchers, pertaining to Law Enforcement Dispatch, Advanced Law Enforcement Dispatch, Active Shooter Response for the Dispatcher, Etc. I have recently completed an EXCELLENT class on Active Shooters, that was taught by a LT. from Boston. One of the best classes I ever took.

    So its a tough position, but Ill agree that anyone that either is a call taker or dispatcher for Law Enforcement, should have some knowledge of how things work pertaining to gun laws. Just my .02.....

    Mike

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