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Thread: HB 1822, guns in public schools

  1. #1
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Sorry for the lack of paragraphs, the write in tool won't let me use them.

    Sir, I write to you today about HB 1822, a bill to allow Concealed Handgun Permit holders to carry their concealed handguns onto K-12 school property. It is legal and commonplace for me to carry my weapon around children at McDonalds, the mall, WalMart, ToysRUs, the library, and just about any other public place; I do carry my weapon at all times when it is legal to do so. A review of crime reports makes it obvious that we cannot predict when our lives may be threatened. However, when I go to pick my son up from school, in order to comply with the law, I must go through a tedious process in order to remain within the law: I must draw my weapon from the holster, unload it, and place it in a locked container. It is a felony for me to step outside my vehicle and place the weapon in my trunk, thus I must have a lockable container inside the vehicle. Once I return to my vehicle, I must retrieve the weapon, load it, and then return it to the holster. One of the most common causes of an unintentional discharge is unnecessary handling of the weapon. Add to this the concern that someone may observe such gun handling and become frightened, which is understandable, and you can see that it would be much simpler, and safer, for the weapon to remain concealed and in the holster. Some states publish statistics regarding the conviction rate of CHP holders versus the general population, and the results are striking. CHP holders are much less likely to commit crimes. Then there is the concern of school shootings. Experts in criminology have recognized that schools, as gun free zones, are safe havens for shooters. The law as written deters honest citizens from possessing guns on school property, but no law will deter a homicidal gunman. These same experts are now realizing that the best way to defeat such a person, and minimize casualties, is with an immediate response. Such gunmen usually end their assault when confronted with return fire. I guarantee you that a legally armed citizen presents a much more immediate response than a police officer who may be several minutes away, such as in my County of Isle of Wight. How many children could be saved in the time it takes for a police officer to respond? My son's school has a resource officer, but only for two or three days per week. A patrol Deputy may well have to respond from the courthouse during an incident, which is about fifteen minutes from the school even at emergency speeds.If you support this bill, thank you. If not, can you please respond and explain to me why I can be trusted around children in public with a weapon, but not at a public school? Thank you,
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    If not, can you please respond and explain to me why I can be trusted around children in public with a weapon, but not at a public school? Thank you,
    I'm sure the response from my representatives would be that they do not trust us in public, either

  3. #3
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    I would like that ability since I visit my daughters school often.

    Doubt it will ever happen.

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    HB 1822 address allowing concealed weapons on K-12 school property.

    I just got a letter back from Mark Sickles (43rd District - Alexandria) advising that he would:
    "carefully review HB 1655." (accountability of localities)

    and,

    "look into HB 1821." (repeal of restaurant ban)


    On HB 1822, he stated the following:

    "While I will consider Delegate Johnson's bills, at this point, it is unlikely that I will vote to further allow guns on school property should that bill reach the House floor."



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    Here is the wording I used when emailing a follow-up to my delegate after Lobby day.

    HB 1822 - I understand their might be some hesitation on this bill, but I fully support the bill. This bill would have no affect on criminals who carry onto school grounds anyway, only those who have gone through a background check, training and paid fees in order to carry a concealed weapon. One of the most frustrating parts of my day involves this bill. My wife drops off my daughter every morning for school (second grade). I then pick her up in the afternoon, but first I have to go home to disarm, pick her up, go home again to pick up my firearm and then I can go about my afternoon errands. Under current law, I can drive through the parking lot while armed (concealed) and pick up my daughter, but I can't leave the firearm in my car. Since I have to sign her out from her after school care program, I have to go inside, which means currently I can't be armed. Again, I would stress this has nothing to do with criminals, only those holding a carry concealed permit. Statistically, carry conceal permit holders are one of the most law abiding group of citizens in the country, more law abiding than some police.



    The reference at the end wasn't a jab at police as a whole, so much as a jab at some places in the country known for their high level of corruption (thinking Chicago). Some may choose to leave that last line out, but I decided to include it.

    Delegate Marshall responded very favorably to my email and encouraged me to follow-up with Senator Colgan as well (I did).

    Edit to add: I adjusted the wording of the last sentence and added a little more detail when I emailed the Senator.

    "Again, I would stress this has nothing to do with criminals, only those holding a carry concealed permit. Criminals will continue to do what they do already, which is break our laws. Statistically, carry conceal permit holders are one of the most law abiding group of citizens in the country, more law abiding than some areas of the country where the political system and police are generally considered corrupt. I'm glad we don't live in any of those areas."

    I included the last note because I didn't want him to infer I was referring to him, our police or our political system.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Ore wrote:
    HB 1822 address allowing concealed weapons on K-12 school property.

    I just got a letter back from Mark Sickles (43rd District - Alexandria) advising that he would:
    "carefully review HB 1655." (accountability of localities)

    and,

    "look into HB 1821." (repeal of restaurant ban)


    On HB 1822, he stated the following:

    "While I will consider Delegate Johnson's bills, at this point, it is unlikely that I will vote to further allow guns on school property should that bill reach the House floor."
    Oh this frustrates me! Clear proof that they just don't get it! This clearly shows that he thinks current laws prevent criminals from bringing guns on school property! Don't these people read the news??

    As I've said before, we need to frame every communication about this issue firmly in the context of allowing the law-abiding citizens to also carry guns on school property!

    TFred

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    I got a response to my letter in reference to SB 1166 (raising the background check fee) from senator Fred Quayle that outlined the progress of the bill thus far (delayed in committee as of the writing of his letter) and an assurance that my opposition to the bill was noted in his computer system and to please not write him again. It essentially read: "I'm going to do what I want, but thanks for the letter" but never said what he was planning to do if it came to a vote on the floor...



  8. #8
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    Ore wrote:
    HB 1822 address allowing concealed weapons on K-12 school property.

    I just got a letter back from Mark Sickles (43rd District - Alexandria) advising that he would:
    "carefully review HB 1655." (accountability of localities)

    and,

    "look into HB 1821." (repeal of restaurant ban)


    On HB 1822, he stated the following:

    "While I will consider Delegate Johnson's bills, at this point, it is unlikely that I will vote to further allow guns on school property should that bill reach the House floor."
    Oh this frustrates me! Clear proof that they just don't get it! This clearly shows that he thinks current laws prevent criminals from bringing guns on school property! Don't these people read the news??

    As I've said before, we need to frame every communication about this issue firmly in the context of allowing the law-abiding citizens to also carry guns on school property!

    TFred
    My delegate takes a similar stand.

    What politician would vote to extend the carry of firearms on school grounds when only a (very small) fraction of his/her constituency views the carry of a firearm as essential to personal safety? They would be dumped like a hot rock at the next election by that vast majority who doesn't view firearms that way.

    Our presence at the school is only a few minutes a day, so claiming an improvement in the safety of those at school due to that brief presence isn't very compelling. Even less convincing is the claim that the "privilege" extended to (untrained?) Commonwealth Attorneys should also be extended to "trained" CHP holders. Trained to do what, exactly? (I don't think anyone's buying that we're that well trained, especially when the "well trained" person complains that "excessive handling" is required to disarm, unload, reload & rearm to enter the school building, and could lead to a ND.)

    It might be better to lobby for some leniency regarding the handling/storage of one's firearm in order to exit one's car on school grounds. e.g. lock it in the glove box. Not as good as taking it with you, but a step better than now, and it reduces the risk of inadvertantly becoming a felon. Maybe limiting access to school hours so that carrying while attending non-school functions (community meeting) is permitted.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    My delegate says he supports 1655 and 1821 but is still considering 1822. I sent this followup for him to consider.

    My wife
    is a school teacher at a private school in Chesterfield. They have no school
    resource officer, so there is no regular police or real security presence.
    Criminals often target places where they know they will be no resistance. I
    think that allowing permit holders (and permitted teachers if the school
    chooses to do so) to carry on school property would help to make our children
    (and teachers) safer.

    Also I would like to visit her at school without having to leave my firearm at
    home or leave it unloaded in a secure container to be able to exit my vehicle
    without committing a felony.

    Finally, many private schools meet in churches. Often these schools don't have
    signs and it is difficult to know that a specific church allows a school to
    meet at their facility. Even if you are there when school is not in session,
    the courts still consider it to be school property, and therefore off limits to
    otherwise legal gun carriers (see King v. Commonwealth, Va. App., S.E.2d
    (2009)). The law also takes away the right of the churches to form their own
    security detail within the church. The New Life Church in Colorado was able to
    prevent massive loss of life when their security team (comprised of church goers
    some with CHPs) was able to stop the gunman. A church should not have to choose
    between being able to provide for their own security and sponsoring a religious
    school.

    vt357

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    A review of crime reports [insert] makes it obvious that we cannot predict when our lives may be threatened.
    And VERY PUBLIC recent events

    Mathieson in VB seemed at least open to the prospect. Don't know how he voted or plans to vote.

    The Constitution has been nearly abrogated by the Feds and Virginia is barely hanging on by a shoestring as a bastion of 2nd Amendment rights... even though we have to pay a "tax" to be able to "legally" carry concealed.

    What part of "shall not be infringed" do these people not understand?
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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