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Thread: TSRA kinda snooty

  1. #1
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    I emailed the TSRA and told them that I am a lifetime NRA member and that I fully support opencarry.org and im a avid hunter and a CCL holder. I told them I see the NRA is now behind the open carry movement and that I wanted to join the TSRA, BUT I wanted to see there stand on the oc movement before I sent them my money...she replied kinda cranky.......Maybe it was just me,,, anways heres their response...Withall that being said I FULLY intend on joining the TSRA, I was just a bit suprised by her snippy response.....



    response: FROM ALICE TRIPP



    TSRA's legislative agenda should be posted on our website. I work with the NRA lobbyist and their national agenda issues are mine with the addition of issues specific to Texas and Texans. TSRA has commitments to pass two issues that deal with personal safety. First allowing the legal possession of fireams in a personal locked vehicle on an employer's parking lot...this is the third session we've worked this bill. Second, we committed to Students for Concealed Carry on Campus after Virginia Tech in 2007 to pass legislation allowing carry in college and university locations currently prohibited by Texas law.

    Nothing was heard of Open Carry before last summer. We understand Rep. Debbie Riddle is having a bill drafted.

    We also have two bills to work HB 410 and HB 267 both good bills...

    Finally, there are problems for hunter and we stand to lose ground on issues we gained in past sessions.

    So, if you're a one issue person and think that we should abandon commitments to others mid-stream, you might not be pleased.

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    Yeah, sounds a little short, but what might one expect?

    They've got their game. That is to say, they have something they want to do. Why suddenly add somebody else's game?

    It might take some work to convince them that your game is just a part of the bigger game they are already playing. A polite reply acknowledging their commitment and efforts for self-defense, thanking them for their efforts, might help.

    And thanking her for reminding you that a single sub-issue might be a little bit steep for a qualifier.

    And then knock her out of her boots by making a cash contribution and asking how you can help.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  3. #3
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    We aren't asking for much. Just putting the statement out there that they support open carry. Very simple.


    Send out a press release that they support open carry and also send an e-mail to their members.

    Doesn't cost money and they help the cause.

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    SilentKTexan wrote:
    We aren't asking for much. Just putting the statement out there that they support open carry. Very simple.


    Send out a press release that they support open carry and also send an e-mail to their members.

    Doesn't cost money and they help the cause.
    Well, yes.

    But cost and helping the cause aren't the only points involved.

    Diplomacy, manners, tact, acknowledging the importance of the other person and his game. And so forth.

    Some folks need more of these things than others. Just the way people are.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  5. #5
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    many times over the last two gun shows in Dallas i've been at, i've heard the announcer talk about how the TSRA is the premier Texas gun rights organization and all the great things they've done as they push for new members.

    Now, that said and out of the way, the TSRA has indeed done great things for gun owners in TX and I don't want to take that away from them. One of the reasons i'm perceiving their short attitude might be that we didn't even bother approaching them about open carry or that we jumped in without thoroughly researching the issue before prompting our legislators. The TSRA has their way of doing things and it has proven successful. Processes out of their idea of mainstream is probably not something they want to cooperate with or even support right now.

    I don't want to hassle or interfere with the objectives of the TSRA. They have their agenda and as long as they do nothing to interfere with our objective, I think that eventually we could join and work together in the future. It is enough to say that we do not wish to join the TSRA at this time since our objectives are different, but we should avoid any and all negative comments or confrontations with TSRA or any of their representatives.

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    DKSuddeth wrote:
    many times over the last two gun shows in Dallas i've been at, i've heard the announcer talk about how the TSRA is the premier Texas gun rights organization and all the great things they've done as they push for new members.

    Now, that said and out of the way, the TSRA has indeed done great things for gun owners in TX and I don't want to take that away from them. One of the reasons i'm perceiving their short attitude might be that we didn't even bother approaching them about open carry or that we jumped in without thoroughly researching the issue before prompting our legislators. The TSRA has their way of doing things and it has proven successful. Processes out of their idea of mainstream is probably not something they want to cooperate with or even support right now.

    I don't want to hassle or interfere with the objectives of the TSRA. They have their agenda and as long as they do nothing to interfere with our objective, I think that eventually we could join and work together in the future. It is enough to say that we do not wish to join the TSRA at this time since our objectives are different, but we should avoid any and all negative comments or confrontations with TSRA or any of their representatives.
    +1 on avoiding conflict

    It may also be that they are feeling a little proprietary about the RKBA in Texas. A sort of, "Hey, who are you guys? We are the 2A advocates in Texas." I don't know if there are other Texas 2A advocacy groups, so this is really, really speculative.

    Also, they could be feeling a little, "Hey! Quit screwing up the 2A climate. You'll undermine our work and ruin our projects."

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    It may also be that they are feeling a little proprietary about the RKBA in Texas. A sort of, "Hey, who are you guys? We are the 2A advocates in Texas."
    Bingo. You said exactly what I came back to this thread to mention: TSRA feels quite parochial about gun rights issues in Texas. They "own" the issue in Texas, and don't want anyone else mucking about.

    Don't get me wrong, they're justified in being proud of the good stuff they've done. The problem is that they don't want any of the gun laws touched unless they've been able to go through and assess what the effects might be.

    The OCDO credo has always been "Get your own bill!", which means don't try to tack OC onto something someone else is doing. I think we all respect that here, but TSRA is afraid of "amateurs" screwing things up.



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    KBCraig wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    It may also be that they are feeling a little proprietary about the RKBA in Texas. A sort of, "Hey, who are you guys? We are the 2A advocates in Texas."
    Bingo. You said exactly what I came back to this thread to mention: TSRA feels quite parochial about gun rights issues in Texas. They "own" the issue in Texas, and don't want anyone else mucking about.

    Don't get me wrong, they're justified in being proud of the good stuff they've done. The problem is that they don't want any of the gun laws touched unless they've been able to go through and assess what the effects might be.

    The OCDO credo has always been "Get your own bill!", which means don't try to tack OC onto something someone else is doing. I think we all respect that here, but TSRA is afraid of "amateurs" screwing things up.

    I can understand most of that.

    Its one thing to be really concerned about an issue, and take lots of responsibility for it personally. Its something else to feel you own it exclusively. However, if that is the case, its a minor mistake. Much better to recognize the potential for the situation and the rankled feelings it might cause, and take steps to smooth ruffled feathers and concerns at the outset. Simple diplomacy and a little foresight should make it easily solved.

    If the other side, despite diplomacy, still wants to own 2A, then they do not deserve to be humored. Just politely carry forward unless your own independently-verified information or careful consideration tells you that to do so would actually undermine a potential success for them--they're working on 2A issues, too. For example, maybe they have "in the bag" a valuable and worthy legislative initiative.Wouldn't necessarilywant tomuck thatup.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    All (gun) politics is local.

    Y'all might look to the events and relations between North Carolina's and South Carolina's unaffiliated gun-rights groups and their NRA state affiliates.

    NCGO was sued by the NRA-assilliate and GRGRSC's legislative agenda has been active obstructed.

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    I agree that it is likely an issue of territory and ruffled feathers...
    A 'non-organization' of nobodys without any political agenda experience managed to organize enough support to actually pursue legislation without asking for permission! And lately the TSRA has gotten a barrage of requests to 'support' the movement in an effort to push it over the top.
    Unfortunately, instead of taking the "I support the efforts of OCDO towards Open Carry in Texas, however I cannot comment on it as it is not one of our primary agendas yadda yadda yadda..." like we have done with SCCC, they have continued to let their feathers be ruffled.
    I truly believe that all of us here support the efforts of TSRA and believe that they have in the past and continue to do good for the overall cause; but I wish they would be a bit more diplomatic in their approach towards other advocate groups. Especially since they are the 'Recognized' gun owners advocate group for Texas.
    We all need to make sure that we are VERY diplomatic towards them and their efforts in both our communications with them as well as the public/legislatures/etc. The old addage: 'Kill em with kindness.'
    Eventually they will have to take a stand one direction or the other on open carry, and I can't imagine that they would go against it, if they do, then that would be a reason to withdraw support. I have considered joining TSRA for a multitude of reasons, mainly in support of all of the good that they have done, and also to gently urge them to at least publicly voice support of OC. The reason that I haven't joined is NOT that they haven't voiced their support, but rather that I have a lot of irons currently in my fire and they aren't at the top of my list just yet...

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    Gator5713 wrote:
    I agree that it is likely an issue of territory and ruffled feathers...
    A 'non-organization' of nobodys without any political agenda experience managed to organize enough support to actually pursue legislation without asking for permission! And lately the TSRA has gotten a barrage of requests to 'support' the movement in an effort to push it over the top.
    Unfortunately, instead of taking the "I support the efforts of OCDO towards Open Carry in Texas, however I cannot comment on it as it is not one of our primary agendas yadda yadda yadda..." like we have done with SCCC, they have continued to let their feathers be ruffled.
    I truly believe that all of us here support the efforts of TSRA and believe that they have in the past and continue to do good for the overall cause; but I wish they would be a bit more diplomatic in their approach towards other advocate groups. Especially since they are the 'Recognized' gun owners advocate group for Texas.
    We all need to make sure that we are VERY diplomatic towards them and their efforts in both our communications with them as well as the public/legislatures/etc. The old addage: 'Kill em with kindness.'
    Eventually they will have to take a stand one direction or the other on open carry, and I can't imagine that they would go against it, if they do, then that would be a reason to withdraw support. I have considered joining TSRA for a multitude of reasons, mainly in support of all of the good that they have done, and also to gently urge them to at least publicly voice support of OC. The reason that I haven't joined is NOT that they haven't voiced their support, but rather that I have a lot of irons currently in my fire and they aren't at the top of my list just yet...
    I hear you on their lack of support. Like many here, I was a bit disappointed in the seeming lack of interest. For the same reasons, I didn't join. I didn't think they deserved my money. Let me tell you what changed my mind and caused me to join TSRA.

    On another forum, I had a chance to talk to someone involved in the leadership of TSRA and the NRA. What he said made a great deal of sense. It boils down to this: Texas gun legislation is tricky. There are anti's in the Legislature who look for opportunities to amend bills in distructive ways. They also look for procedural ways to kill them. His point is that to be bullet-proof (pardon the pun), you have to draft them well and work closely with pro-2A members to make sure they have the proper protection and support. That takes time and having the proper relationships with them. They have gained credibility over the years by being careful and "understanding how the game is played" and they want to make sure that they maintain that reputation. Slow success is better than fast failure.

    1) The above makes sense and you can't argue with their success. When TSRA & others first sponsored CHL, Texans had been disarmed for more than 100 years. The governor was dead-set against it (Ann Richards) as were most elected state officials. This was a HUGE undertaking. We have CHL today ONLY because of the hard work of TSRA! I had always know that, but didn't really give them the credit they deserved. CHL was VERY controversial but they made it happen.

    2) Every session since there have been improvements, albeit with some bumps along the way. Due to their efforts, things have been getting better -- just not as quickly as we'd like.

    3) TRSA is not opposed to open carry. It simply wasn't on the radar screen until OCDO brought it up so they haven't had time to do their research, draft legislation, work with agreeable members, etc. Frankly, they never thought it would go anywhere. The success that OCDO had surprised them. In short, they had a list of things to get done and OC wasn't on it.

    4) Given the publicity that OCDO generated, Open Carry is DEFINITELY on their radar screen now. We have Governor Perry on board, we have Land Commissioner Patterson, we have Suzanna Hupp, etc. I am working with this same person to get them to ramp up on open carry and try to get in the game. We've done the start up, many of the members they will be working with have heard about open carry now, so some of the vetting and trial balloon work is complete. Hopefully they can take the ball and run with it.

    5) OCDO did great work on this but we NEED their help. We don't know the legislators. We don't have their ear from past good works. We don't have pros down there lobbying as the Legislature is in session. Working WITH TSRA gives us our best opportunity to get a bill passed.

    For all their past good work and to show that I'm will to put my money where my mouth is to give OC the maximum possibility of winning, I joined and will now be working with them and lobbying them as a TSRA member. They need members who speak up for open carry! They only care about what their members care about.

    I encourage everyone to think about this: all pro-2A groups need to work together. With the Obama Administration and a potentially less friendly Legislature this time around, we must be united. We need to voice our support for parking lot carry. We need to speak up for college campus carry. We need to encourage them, as friends and partners, to work for open carry. They are willing, but they need us to join them to make it happen.

    SA-TX

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    I understand the point of them underestimating the power of the people. BUT, THIS is how it SHOULD be. The people shouldn't need an organization like TSRA or the NRA to get things done. So I am very proud of this effort and the attention and respect it is receiving.

    I don't want to discount what the TSRA and NRA do for 2A rights but this is truly amazing how things have been going with the open carry movement. Hopefully they jump on board and make it more obvious that they support open carry.

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    SA-TX wrote:
    On another forum, I had a chance to talk to someone involved in the leadership of TSRA and the NRA. What he said made a great deal of sense. It boils down to this: Texas gun legislation is tricky. There are anti's in the Legislature who look for opportunities to amend bills in distructive ways. They also look for procedural ways to kill them.
    This situation is not unique to Texas, and in fact it's less of a problem here than in most states. The "We're the only ones capable of tackling gun issues" attitude is off-putting for me. (I'm reminded of the DEA agent who said, "I'm the only one in this room professional enough to carry this gun" right before he shot himself in the foot. )

    Open carry was brought to TSRA's attention as an issue before the 2007 legislative session. They stated then, just like now, that it wasn't a legislative priority for them. The petition and publicity this time around has forced them to at least address the issue publicly, but it's disingenous of them to act as if this is a brand-new issue that they haven't had a chance to study.

    Hopefully this new round of publicity, especially if Arkansas legalized OC before Texas does, will convince them to study it.


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    KBCraig wrote:
    SA-TX wrote:
    On another forum, I had a chance to talk to someone involved in the leadership of TSRA and the NRA. What he said made a great deal of sense. It boils down to this: Texas gun legislation is tricky. There are anti's in the Legislature who look for opportunities to amend bills in distructive ways. They also look for procedural ways to kill them.
    This situation is not unique to Texas, and in fact it's less of a problem here than in most states. The "We're the only ones capable of tackling gun issues" attitude is off-putting for me. (I'm reminded of the DEA agent who said, "I'm the only one in this room professional enough to carry this gun" right before he shot himself in the foot. )

    Open carry was brought to TSRA's attention as an issue before the 2007 legislative session. They stated then, just like now, that it wasn't a legislative priority for them. The petition and publicity this time around has forced them to at least address the issue publicly, but it's disingenous of them to act as if this is a brand-new issue that they haven't had a chance to study.

    Hopefully this new round of publicity, especially if Arkansas legalized OC before Texas does, will convince them to study it.
    I hear you on the attitude. There is too much attitude going around on all sides. I agree that we've done the work to get OC into the news and public officials on record. Now is where they come in. They've got the ear of legislators from their past efforts. They shouldn't take a "not invented here" attitude with open carry but instead should appreciate the work we've done and help carry it forward. We shouldn't hold it against them that they have had other legitimate pro-2A priorities. The Castle Doctrine is a big win. Car carry without a CHL is a big win. Campus and parking lot carry -- their current priorities -- are great steps forward for Texas gun carry. Like it or not, OC will have a much better chance of success if we work with them -- and the legislators that they have relationships with -- than if we try to do it alone out of pride or spite. That is self-defeating. I don't care who gets the credit or who has done the work as long as Texans win. Therefore I support both.

    SA-TX

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    If every gun owner supporting open carry stays the course, contacts the gov., and their rep and sen, and signs teh petition, and follows up again with tgheir rep and sen, and gives what they can to support further radio campaign ads, i think we have a serious shot at decriminalizing open cary in Texas.



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    I too contacted TSRA about4 months ago. I was very disapointed in their response. I had an exchange of e-mails with Mrs. Tripp, and in the end came to the conclusion that they weren't going to be much help. I wasn't asking them to finnancially support the movement. I was asking them the same thing I asked the NRA...to just come out "VOCALLY" in support of the OC movement. Something that I would think any guns right organization would do, after all it affects ALL of us. Couldn't get it. Now I am back overseas (I am a US Diplomat)where I can't carry, but I do keep monitoring the developments. I am glad to see that at least the NRA has stepped up verbally. IMHO, shame on any who supposedly espouse our 2a rights and yet stay mum with somthing as simple as verbal support.



    Thats my two Cents from the Middle east....

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    ldcarson wrote:
    I too contacted TSRA about4 months ago. I was very disapointed in their response. I had an exchange of e-mails with Mrs. Tripp, and in the end came to the conclusion that they weren't going to be much help. I wasn't asking them to finnancially support the movement. I was asking them the same thing I asked the NRA...to just come out "VOCALLY" in support of the OC movement. Something that I would think any guns right organization would do, after all it affects ALL of us. Couldn't get it. Now I am back overseas (I am a US Diplomat)where I can't carry, but I do keep monitoring the developments. I am glad to see that at least the NRA has stepped up verbally. IMHO, shame on any who supposedly espouse our 2a rights and yet stay mum with somthing as simple as verbal support.



    Thats my two Cents from the Middle east....
    The reason they claim they can't lend even verbal support is that members of the Legislature will assume they are sponsoring the bill and, if they aren't in control of it, could make TSRA look bad if it isn't handled well. No matter the disclaimers, they will be associated with it because it is a "gun bill". My argument was -- and is -- that if all pro-gun bills are naturally associated with you whether you like it or not, it is in your best interest to make it succeed.

    For the same reasons as you, I delayed joining TSRA. When I thought back on how much they've accomplished in the last 10 years and with parking lot and college campus carry on tap for this year, I decided to join and work for OC from within. They work on the things that their members want. The more members that speak up for OC, the more resources they will put into it.

    Thank you for your service to our country!

    SA-TX

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    The TSRA, like the NRA, are a complete waste of time. People should abandon them since they have abandoned us. They do more compromising than any other organization out there. The NRA has compromised our rights away more than they have helped and the TSRA is the same way. Screw them.

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    blackelk wrote:
    I told them I see the NRA is now behind the open carry movement
    Where has this been shown? Can you cite a reference that the NRA is behind OC? I must have missed it.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    They sent me an e-mail saying they supported it... But I haven't seen a public statement from them regarding the issue.

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    SilentKTexan wrote:
    They sent me an e-mail saying they supported it... But I haven't seen a public statement from them regarding the issue.
    Can you post the email, but protect your identity if so desired.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    Can you post the email, but protect your identity if so desired.
    This is a reply to my e-mail asking about their position on open carry and if they are supporting Texas open carry in any way.

    Sent from ILAContact@nrahq.org

    "Dear Mr. Jacobs,



    Thanks for contacting NRA-ILA. NRA supports Open-Carry and currently pursues Open-Carry legislation on a state level. NRA endorses Open-Carry in the state of Texas.



    Please let us know if you have further questions or concerns.



    Sincerely,



    Krista Cupp

    NRA-ILA Grassroots Division"

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    SA-TX wrote:
    The reason they claim they can't lend even verbal support is that members of the Legislature will assume they are sponsoring the bill and, if they aren't in control of it, could make TSRA look bad if it isn't handled well. No matter the disclaimers, they will be associated with it because it is a "gun bill". My argument was -- and is -- that if all pro-gun bills are naturally associated with you whether you like it or not, it is in your best interest to make it succeed.
    I prefer your argument to theirs.

    I am partially persuaded by your argument to join TSRA, and I have reached this conclusion: If, at the end of this session, TSRA has not hindered in any way our efforts to pass an OC bill, then I will join. And by "any way" I mean public statements, private statements, lobbying efforts, or legislative backroom shenanigans.

    Following that, if TSRA will actively support open carry in the 2011 session, even if they don't push their own bill, then I will sign up my entire family. By "actively support", I mean that any time they're asked, TSRA will say they welcome all increases in gun owners' rights, and welcome other groups to the cause.

    I plan to be OCing in New Hampshire before 2011, but I'll still buy the memberships.



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    An old e-mail from Alice Tripp in 2007:


    It isn't a case of "rethink". We need to make it legal to have an unlicensed handgun in a person's vehicle before we even consider open carry. By the way, do you want an open carry license? Fingerprint background check, reciprocity etc...

    Right now in Texas it's "legal" to have a gun-rack with a long gun in it but depending on where you are, such as a big city, you can be arrested for disorderly conduct.

    So you think about it. Would you think more people, Texans and non-Texans, would benefit from being able to safely and legally have a handgun in their vehicle without a license without fear of being arrested or should I spend huge amounts of political capitol to make it legal for a handful to "show" their handguns.

    Right now I'm trying to get 4 bills passed, any of which could open up an employer's parking lot to CHLs or all legal firearms. Wouldn't you consider that more in the majorities interested than, again, a handful who want to show off their STI's.

    It's never been hard to find something to do...

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    May 2006
    Location
    Olympia, WA
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    766

    Post imported post

    Another old e-mail from Alice Tripp back in 2007:



    Your letter was forwarded to me so while James Dark may answer you, allow me to add my 2 cents.

    If there were a significant interest in Texasin passing an open carry law, we'd definitely consider running a bill.At the moment TSRA has 21 bills on our legislative agenda, including 3 antigun bills.

    Sorry if you're embarassed by Texas law but every state and the population of that state is different and their laws evolve differently. TSRA works toward the greatest good for the largest number of our members. We answer to our membership and to our Legislature.

    Thanks for your letter.

    Alice Tripp
    Legislative Director
    Tx State Rifle Association

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