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Thread: A letter I sent to local legislators

  1. #1
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    This is a letter I sent off to my local legislators. It concerns trying to get laws prohibiting possession of legal short barrel rifles and shotguns, as well as machine guns repealed, as well as making it legal to use a legal silencer.

    That said anyone who wishes to use this letter in it's unaltered state is free to do so.

    I'm hoping we can get a bunch of people agitating to get these laws repealed so we can own these guns again in Washington State.

    I'm not up to debating my choice of words or how I chose to address this issue, or the overall "quality" or "tone" of the letter.

    Hi,
    I am writing concerning state laws which currently prohibit possession and/or use of certain firearms and firearms devices which are regulated and registered by the Federal Government, namely short barrel shotguns and rifles, devices for suppressing the sound of firearms, and registered machine guns.

    Currently RCW 9.41.250 section 1, paragraph(c) makes it a gross misdemeanor when a person "Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm". While it is held to be legal to posses a Federally registered silencer (which requires a $200 tax, and BATF background check, as well as the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of the area the owner resides) it is currently illegal to actually use such a device if legally held.

    At this time RCW 9.41.190 and 9.41.220 prohibit ownership of most machine guns, shotguns with barrels under 18", or rifles with barrels with under 16". Currently Federal law allows for ownership of machine guns registered before a certain date in 1986, as well as for short barrel rifles and shotguns made at any time. To own a machine gun requires the same procedures as I outlined for a silencer.

    To own a legal short barrel rifle or shotgun requires the same steps as for a machine gun or silencer, and the payment of a $5 tax stamp to the Federal government. To manufacture a legal short barrel rifle or shotgun requires the same steps as for a machine gun or silencer, and the payment of a $200 tax.

    Currently Washington State adds an additional penalty for use of a machine gun in a felony, per RCW 9.41.225.

    Article I, section 24 of the Washington State Constitution carefully protects the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms for personal protection, or defense of the state. There are many legitimate reasons to own the weapons and devices I have described in this letter. Silencers protect the hearing of the user, reduce noise pollution, and could prove valuable for a householder forced to defend themselves, in that a suppressed firearm lessens the risk of permanent damage to their hearing or that of loved ones. Short barrel rifles and shotguns also serve many self defense purposes. It is well established that a short and handy weapon is ideal for personal and home defense. Shotguns and rifles are widely employed for self defense, with the understanding that the shorter and more compact weapons are most useful.

    As I pointed out, to legally obtain machine guns, silencers, short barrel rifles or shotguns require BATF approval, as well as the signature of a Chief of Police or Sheriff. The state constitution carefully protects the right of the individual to keep and bear arms, while current state law restricts the use and ownership of certain classes of weapons. To ban such rare and expensive classes of weapons will do nothing to lessen crime, as criminals will still find ways to make or acquire illegal weapons of a prohibited type, while law abiding citizens are denied their rights.

    Please consider a bill that would restore these rights, and return the ability of Washington residents to own and use these weapons and devices for personal and public defense.

    Thank you

  2. #2
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    AOW's are $5 transfer or $200 tax to manufacture without a SOT, SBR's and SBS's are $200 transfer or production tax. Also Canada which is extremely repressive doesn't regulate shotgun barrel length at all and the children are ok, just points for other people to put in their letters.

    Or maybe point to the man from spokane (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...apons21m0.html) who was just arrested with 37 machine guns, 9 silencers, 54 HE 40mm grenades, and six blocks of C4 that had no registration, or the bank robbers with illegal full auto AK's a couple years ago by the soldiers/ex soldiers so the laws are already not working and people are getting the weapons anyways. If criminals are driving down the street at 90mph lowering the speed limit from 25 to 20 will not fix the problem. More restrictive gun laws wont fix the problem failing to prosecute current ones creates. Law abiding citizens are asking to lawfully own weapons the criminals already have or are making, why hamper a citizen from trying to follow federal laws?

  3. #3
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    AOW's are legal to possess and use in this state already which is why I didn't address them.

    Didn't know that about Canada though, thanks.

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    no, what i mean is you confused short barreled rifles and shotguns with AOW's in your letter, only AOW's have the $5 transfer tax, short barreled rifles and shotguns are 200 to transfer or make

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    FE427TP wrote:
    no, what i mean is you confused short barreled rifles and shotguns with AOW's in your letter, only AOW's have the $5 transfer tax, short barreled rifles and shotguns are 200 to transfer or make
    This is correct.

    Sorry I didn't catch that last night when I reviewed the letter, SV. I was tired.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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  6. #6
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    Oops, I was tired too when I wrote that. Oh well.

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    Hmmm we can have AOWs? Time to get a Serbu Super Shorty.

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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    Dr. Fresh wrote:
    Hmmm we can have AOWs? Time to get a Serbu Super Shorty.
    Yeah, you can get Super Shorty's in WA with a $5 tax stamp and a CLEO signoff on your form 4.

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    Good deals on the Super Shorty at DGS Seattle Location

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Sorry SV - Thread jack but I had to post the pic for this thing since I saw one at the pit today. You can get a OC holster for it comes in 12ga & 20ga.



  11. #11
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    Holy crap. That thing if friggen sweet,
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  12. #12
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    shad0wfax wrote:
    Yeah, you can get Super Shorty's in WA with a $5 tax stamp and a CLEO signoff on your form 4.
    Actually, if you get it transferred to a Living Trust, you don't even need the CLEO sign-off.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    just_a_car wrote:
    shad0wfax wrote:
    Yeah, you can get Super Shorty's in WA with a $5 tax stamp and a CLEO signoff on your form 4.
    Actually, if you get it transferred to a Living Trust, you don't even need the CLEO sign-off.
    Please cite this for me. I have heard it a couple of times but have my doubts.

    -adamsesq

  14. #14
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    adamsesq wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:
    Actually, if you get it transferred to a Living Trust, you don't even need the CLEO sign-off.
    Please cite this for me. I have heard it a couple of times but have my doubts.

    -adamsesq
    Go into any gun shop that sells Class III firearms, such as Wade's in Bellevue, WA. I found out about it online, but learned all the nuances from a gentleman working there.

    Edit: Yes, I realize getting information from gun shop employees is not usually a good idea, but when it comes to how to legally purchase a firearm, they are going to be pretty up-to-date on that info.

    Feel free to take a look here: http://www.politesocietyinc.com/cgi-...d=19&sub=9 and also look into how living trusts work as "legal entities."
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    just_a_car wrote:
    adamsesq wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:
    Actually, if you get it transferred to a Living Trust, you don't even need the CLEO sign-off.
    Please cite this for me. I have heard it a couple of times but have my doubts.

    -adamsesq
    Go into any gun shop that sells Class III firearms, such as Wade's in Bellevue, WA. I found out about it online, but learned all the nuances from a gentleman working there.

    Edit: Yes, I realize getting information from gun shop employees is not usually a good idea, but when it comes to how to legally purchase a firearm, they are going to be pretty up-to-date on that info.

    Feel free to take a look here: http://www.politesocietyinc.com/cgi-...d=19&sub=9 and also look into how living trusts work as "legal entities."
    I know very well how a trust works. But most items that require a registration or title of any sort can be held by a trust but are held by the "Trustee" who has to pass all qualifications to own whatever item it is, including holding all licenses necessary to hold any items in the trust. My guess, and at this point it is only that, is that the trustee will still have to be approved by a local LEO before it can be held by the trust.

    -adamsesq

  16. #16
    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    adamsesq wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:
    adamsesq wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:
    Actually, if you get it transferred to a Living Trust, you don't even need the CLEO sign-off.
    Please cite this for me. I have heard it a couple of times but have my doubts.

    -adamsesq
    Go into any gun shop that sells Class III firearms, such as Wade's in Bellevue, WA. I found out about it online, but learned all the nuances from a gentleman working there.

    Edit: Yes, I realize getting information from gun shop employees is not usually a good idea, but when it comes to how to legally purchase a firearm, they are going to be pretty up-to-date on that info.

    Feel free to take a look here: http://www.politesocietyinc.com/cgi-...d=19&sub=9 and also look into how living trusts work as "legal entities."
    I know very well how a trust works. But most items that require a registration or title of any sort can be held by a trust but are held by the "Trustee" who has to pass all qualifications to own whatever item it is, including holding all licenses necessary to hold any items in the trust. My guess, and at this point it is only that, is that the trustee will still have to be approved by a local LEO before it can be held by the trust.

    -adamsesq
    adamsesq:

    It can't be cited, unles you have friends who work for the BATFE who can print you offtheir internal SOP's.

    The way some Class III FFL holders have helpedtransferees bypass the CLEO signature completely by using a Living Trust or a LLC is an internal BATFE policy thatmight change at any time. (The BATFE, as you probably know, is infamous for reversing their policy on a whim.) You are correct that each trustee named in the trust or each partner in the LLC would have to meet the legal criteria to be eligible for the NFA transfer, however, the CLEO signature is not required if it's done via LLC or CLEO.

    Once the CLEO has signed off on it (or once the LLC or Living Trust is formed) and the appropriate paperwork is sent to the BATFE, the BATFE performs their investigation, verifies that the transferee(s) all meet the legal criteria and have enclosed their money, the BATFE issues the cancelled tax stamp and the transferee can pick up the NFA weapon. The BATFE cannot arbitrarily deny the transfer. Only the CLEO has the power to arbitrarily deny the transfer, by refusing to sign the form 4 that goes to the BATFE.

    I can't cite it because I can't access BATFE SOP's. I can, however, tell you that I know two people who legallyown NFA "weapons" and never needed a CLEO signature to obtain them legally from a Class III dealer with the appropriate Form 4 and cancelled $200 (in this case) tax stamp.

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