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Thread: Open Carry in Seattle

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    I have been Open Carrying in Seattle now for the past few months on a regular basis (mainly the green lake, wallingford areas, but I have in Downtown and Queen Anne as well). I conduct all of my regular business and errands while carrying. Not one store has asked me to leave. Including the QFC, Hollywood Video, Primo Burgers, and Bartells in Green Lake. I have only had a couple of strange looks, from a couple of strange looking people haha. Never been stopped or questioned by local law enforcement. However I always carry a copy of the Washington State Gun Laws in my pocket just in case.
    You can go here to print out a copy for your state http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/#?st=WA
    I should also add that I do not have a CPL (Concealed Pistol License) for Washington State, nor do intend on obtaining one. It's not that I would have trouble, I just do not see the point. If the NRA is right (I am a member) and Obama goes through with many of his anti-gun ideas and proposed legislation; all CLP holders will be suspect. I am an Armed Forces Military Police Veteran and don't believe in Obama's proposed "common sense gun laws."


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    Just be careful, carrying in a vehicle (buses included I believe) without a CPL is a crime.

    Keep it up though! Seattle needs more OC.

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    Good point Dr. Fresh, I am glad you brought that up. You can carry open in a vehicle but it can not be loaded. If you have ammo, keep it locked in your trunk and your weapon holstered. You can not carry on the bus unless you have a CLP and it must be concealed, even though you normally don't have to carry concealed just because you have a CLP.

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    Ha Ha I just realized I kept typing CLP instead of CPL. My subconscious must be telling me I need to clean my weapons.

    CLP (Cleaner Lubricant Protectant)
    CPL (Concealed Pistol License)

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    armyhellion13 wrote:
    Good point Dr. Fresh, I am glad you brought that up. You can carry open in a vehicle but it can not be loaded. If you have ammo, keep it locked in your trunk and your weapon holstered. You can not carry on the bus unless you have a CLP and it must be concealed, even though you normally don't have to carry concealed just because you have a CLP.
    Ammunition does not have to be locked in the trunk. It can be in your pocket and you are being lawful. You are just not allowed to have the magazine inserted into the action. As far as the bus goes you are not required to conceal.

    A cpl never requires that you conceal. It simply gives you the ability to if you wish and also the ability to carry loaded in a vehicle.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    You can not carry on the bus unless you have a CLP and it must be concealed [emphasis added]
    Not so; I defy you to find anything, anywhere in the RCW's (whether pertaining to vehicles or not) that requires, rather than merely permits, concealed carry.

    Perhaps you're confusing the requirement in RCW 9.41.280 (3)(f) that a loaded handgun left in an unattended vehicle on school grounds by a lawful possessor be "concealed from view".


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    kparker wrote:
    You can not carry on the bus unless you have a CLP and it must be concealed [emphasis added]
    Not so; I defy you to find anything, anywhere in the RCW's (whether pertaining to vehicles or not) that requires, rather than merely permits, concealed carry.

    Perhaps you're confusing the requirement in RCW 9.41.280 (3)(f) that a loaded handgun left in an unattended vehicle on school grounds by a lawful possessor be "concealed from view".
    That's correct. The CPL allows you to carry in a bus openly under the RCW's. However, the bus company may trespass you off of the bus if you carry openly with a CPL on a bus.

    If the city has an ordinance against carrying openly on a bus with a CPL then they are in violation of state pre-emption law and you have a court case on your hands.

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    However, the bus company may trespass you off of the bus if you carry openly with a CPL on a bus.
    Not if it's a municipal agency it can't (e.g. Metro, Pierce Transit, Sound Transit, etc.)

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    kparker wrote:
    However, the bus company may trespass you off of the bus if you carry openly with a CPL on a bus.
    Not if it's a municipal agency it can't (e.g. Metro, Pierce Transit, Sound Transit, etc.)
    This is true, but they can '86 you for other reasons than the firearm, even though we both know it's really about the firearm. That's why I said now you have a court case on your hands. In practice, they can (and sometimes will) trespass you off of the bus because of the firearm, but not officially because of the firearm.

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    Since no one has posted this yet, armyhellion13, I suggest you read the following thread Washington OC FAQ's

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/15411.html

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    Thank you for clearing that up. That is what I was told by a LEO friend of mine (but as we all know they seem to be slightly misinformed when it comes to open carry laws ha ha). I also was told the same thing when I contacted the NRA. As a former LEO myself (not in wa) I would advise keeping the ammo in your trunk, regardless of the laws. I know all to well (as I am sure many of you do) that just because it is or is not a law does not mean that the courts will not use their own interpretation of them. Thanks for all of the useful information!

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    I thoughtthere was an incident a few years ago with a person without a CPL who was driving and was pulled over. He had a handgun in a belt holster and the handgun was unchambered and no magazine inserted. However he did have a loaded magazine in between his thighs. The man argued that he didn't need a CPL, but the trooper arrested him because of the proximity of the loaded magazine to the handgun. I remember he started a blog about his trial, but can't remember any more details. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

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    jchen012,

    Yes, I remember, though perhaps you are conflating 2 separate incidents with the same person: the open-carry incident in Ellensburg, which he blogged about, and the Spokane-area pulled-over-while-unloaded incident you refer to here.

    See here for some further discussion of these events here on ocdo.

    [Edited to fix a completely mangled URL.]


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    I took a look of that NRA link you sent for the WA state laws. 2 pages, you just fold them up and stick them in your back pocket? Seems like they wouls get in my way
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Yeah, I fold the two pages into a square and keep them in my front chest pocket of my 5.11 "Off Duty" Jacket. You can't even tell they are there and I know it will come in handy.

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    fire suppressor wrote:
    I took a look of that NRA link you sent for the WA state laws. 2 pages, you just fold them up and stick them in your back pocket? Seems like they wouls get in my way
    You should also (or instead) carry copies of the Washington Gun Laws as compiled by opencarry.org members. They are available here from NWCDL and are probably kept more up to date than the NRA materials. I also notice, doing a quick scan through the NRA bulletin, that they are missing some information. First of all, they don't mention that you can leave your firearm locked in your vehicle while at a school on business. So, for example, a teacher could keep their firearm in their vehicle even though they can't carry it into the classroom. Secondly, they don't deal with open carry at all.

    (Disclaimer: Not NRA bashing, I am a life member, so don't take it that way. Sad that I even feel the need to include this.)

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    If you want to be hasseled all day that is fine. I salute you for it actually. I on the other hand, can not afford to be falsely arrested nor hassled. If I have a weapon in my car, I am on my way somehwere and would like to make it to my location. As a former LEO I also know the dangers for both an Officer and a Civilian when carrying ammo in your pockets and a gun on your hip without a CPL. In the mind of the"law," if you will, if you are a law abiding citizen you would have a CPL. And that is my method of "protest." I refuse to obtain a CPL; asking what is the point, even though I could easily obtain one.I am no longer a certified LEO therfore I am not covered by H.R. 218, but even if I was, I would carry openly. Just because it is not illegal does not mean you should do it. Use common sense. It might not be illegal in some places to walk on the guard rail over a bridge, but will the police stop you and detain you if they see you doing this? Yes. It is a stupid idea for multiple reasons? Yes. Is it your right to get accross the bridge? Yes. You just need to be smart aboutit.

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    It depends on how you interpret what they say...same goes for the laws, same goes for anything. It does not say anything against open carry, thus it is legal. Washington state "policy" in layman's termsis, if it is not covered as illegal, it is legal. Unless there is a law saying, "NO OPEN CARRY," you may open carry. I also carry a list of all the actual codes. I like the NRA printout because it is in my opinion clear and easy to read. It's not just to show active LEO's but anyone who may have questions about OC that I may encounter while out with my firearm. Rather than people on here always attempting to "correct" someone because they think they are "right" they should offer alternatives and provide sources. Not tear everyone else down or try to tell them they are wrong, unless of course it comes to actual facts. But when sharing opinions or providing suggestions...they are just that.

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    Actually they do mention school laws.

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    What is there to correct?? The law clearly defines loaded and unloaded.You wish to carry your ammo in the trunk, I prefer to keep mine at hand which makes both legal.

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    I hear ya. I was not directing that just at you.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    RCW 9.41.010 Terms defined. Unless the context clearly requires otherwise, the definitions in this section apply throughout this chapter. (9) "Loaded" means:
    (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;
    (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;
    (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;
    (d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or
    (e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.
    A great loophole....
    My dueling pistols are six cylinder, loads from front of cylinder not the muzzle
    takes care of 'E'.
    Also uses primer caps, not cartriges, so 'C' also not relavent.
    yeh, I get away from all the "loaded" requirements.....
    I do believe the old peacemakers are the same way, except each cyl has a cap.


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    armyhellion13 wrote:
    -- what I was told by a LEO friend of mine ---
    The number one source of misinformation on gun carry laws, bar none.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    NavyLT wrote:
    RCW 9.41.010 Terms defined. Unless the context clearly requires otherwise, the definitions in this section apply throughout this chapter. (9) "Loaded" means:
    (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;
    (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;
    (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;
    (d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or
    (e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.
    A great loophole....
    My dueling pistols are six cylinder, loads from front of cylinder not the muzzle
    takes care of 'E'.
    Also uses primer caps, not cartriges, so 'C' also not relavent.
    yeh, I get away from all the "loaded" requirements.....
    I do believe the old peacemakers are the same way, except each cyl has a cap.
    I believe you would fall under (e) if it was up in front of the courts.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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