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Thread: Need some help... police troubles

  1. #1
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    Ok, I am writing in concern of an event that just happened. I was at home. My roommate and I had a bit of a disturbance. I am about 1/3 the size of my roommate and he had been drinking. and would not stop banging on his floor/my ceiling. i asked him to stop and he didn't i then went upstairs. to tell him to stop and he proceeded to throw a remote at my person and threaten me. I then drew my weapon and said stop. he came at me. I did not fire but yet against my better judgement lowered my weapon. andhestruck me across the face. He then proceeded to push me down the stairs and I caught myself. I went downstairs and called the police. I stayed separately from my roommate while i was on the phone with the dispatcher and she instructed me to leave my weapon away before the officers arrived. I left it downstairs. My witness a Military Police officer and i then proceeded outside to meet the officers as they arrived. We met them and they took our side of the story and then a few of the officers went inside to speak with my roommate. I advised the officer that I was speaking with that I did not consent to any searches of my area of the house which is the entire downstairs. I was then asked by another officer if he could take a look around i again replied "NO I do not consent to any searches" and they continued to search and seize alcohol under the presumption of they have the right to search the entire property due to the weapons being involved. I was cited for possession of alcohol by a minor (i'm 20, three months from being 21). I feel that the officers violated my 4th amendment rights. against unlawful searches and seizures. i have the citation stating that I did not consent to any searches. the alcohol was my witnesses who is of age please advise on if yall believe my 4th was violated and if not why not



    Thanks,

    Helms, Thomas S


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    If both of your names are on the Lease or if his name appeas on a deed, and he gave them permission to search, they were legal in searching the entire property, not just what you consider "yours" when talking about a roomie.

    Is he over the age of 21? If so than they cant get you for underage possession, unless he is denying that the alcohol is his. If this is teh case, your roomie is out to screw you hardcore.

    If he is under the age of 21, than he should be charged the same as yo with possesion by a minor.



    I am no lawyer, but that is my interpretation.

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    PFC Helms wrote:
    [snip]
    I then drew my weapon and said stop. he came at me. I did not fire but yet against my better judgement lowered my weapon.
    I'm going to confine myself to this part. What you did was a potentially deadly mistake. I'm a little surprised that he didn't take your weapon away from you. Sometimes the mere sight of a drawn weapon will cause the perp to stop whatever he's doing, but if it doesn't, pulling the trigger is the next step. If, for whatever reason, you're not willing or somehow not prepared to actually shoot, it's far, far better not to draw at all. Anti-gun authorities probably would have charged you with felony menacing.

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    There is entirely too much one side point of view with this to respond intelligently.
    Suggest that you get an attorney.

    Also its an extreme stretch to see where this is relevant (OC related) to this forum.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    When they enter your premises without a warrant but with permission--which they had due to your complaint, they can look around at anything in the open. If you had booze or drugs or an illegal weapon in plain site, you're screwed. As already noted, if your roommate was over 21, it won't stick if he says the booze was his. If not--which simply means he isn't lying, pay the fine because you lost--unless your witness testifies under oath it was his and you were not at any time drinking any of it. As to pulling the gun on him--very dumb idea. You were not in fear of death or grievous bodily harm and had no right to use anything but reasonable force to defend yourself from simple assault and battery. You're lucky you weren't charged with aggravated assault--a class A felony. If you had shot him and killed him, 2nd degree murder. Very dumb move.

    BTW, you're probably looking at an Article 15 if convicted. You may want to talk to your Area Defense Counsel.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Yes, both of our names appear on the lease and I have found out since then that he did not give them permission to search. my roommate told them that the entire downstairs was my portion of the house and they were ask me for permission which I did not give. I know that it was a bad idea to draw my weapon but i did feel threatened because he had been drinking and is quite a bit larger than me. and I understand that they can look around the general area of the property that you are in. but me and my witness were outside and my roommate was in the living room. the downstairs was a complete different area of the house. and nobody was in it. they still proceeded to search it, and I don't want this to be an argument of whether I did right or wrong with my weapon... I know I did wrong. I am just trying to see if I have a defense of my charge with my 4th amendment rights. and my roommate is 24 and my witness that was here was 21

    Thanks,

    Helms, Thomas S



    P.S. This doesn't pertain exactly to open carry but it does apply to rights and firearms and that idea which is well in the scope of this forum.




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    It's my understanding if the LEO's are allowed in your house (which they were) and they see something "not right", they have probable cause and can then search the premises.

    Shouldn't have let them in the house, should NOT have drawn your weapon.

    But the alcohol was his (technically, right?) so I don't see where they have a case on that point.


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    Correct the alcohol was his. and they were allowed in the living room and kitchen the middle floor of the apt it is a 3 story town home with a basement (which is my area) the middle floor which is the common area living room and kitchen and the upstairs which is my roommates area. they didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the middle floor where they were which would have justified them searching the entire apartment and they only searched my area of the house not the upstairs. and it was an all around bad situation and should have never happened. but I am going to file a police misconduct report, and ask that the charges be dropped based on it not being my alcohol and being a violation of my 4th amendment rights.

    Thanks

    Helms, Thomas S

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    Maybe the KY State Militia will have your back?
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    Flyer22 wrote:
    PFC Helms wrote:
    [snip]
    I then drew my weapon and said stop. he came at me. I did not fire but yet against my better judgement lowered my weapon.
    I'm going to confine myself to this part. What you did was a potentially deadly mistake. I'm a little surprised that he didn't take your weapon away from you. Sometimes the mere sight of a drawn weapon will cause the perp to stop whatever he's doing, but if it doesn't, pulling the trigger is the next step. If, for whatever reason, you're not willing or somehow not prepared to actually shoot, it's far, far better not to draw at all. Anti-gun authorities probably would have charged you with felony menacing.

    Yet another person who doesn't understand that laws vary from state to state.

    There is no such thing as "felony menacing" in Kentucky.

    Come on people, we are turing into our own worst enemies.

    Rule #1

    Don't draw the gun unless you are prepared to shoot (and kill) whoever is down range.


    Additionally, you don't have "police troubles", you have "judgment troubles".

    You should not carry, OC, or CC. You don't have what it takes to do so. Your lack of judgment is appaling.





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    superdemon wrote:
    Additionally, you don't have "police troubles", you have "judgment troubles".

    You should not carry, OC, or CC. You don't have what it takes to do so. Your lack of judgment is appaling.



    +1,000
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    PFC Helms wrote:
    snip....... ask that the charges be dropped based on it not being my alcohol and being a violation of my 4th amendment rights.
    You'll be talking to the wrong person - afraid you're going to have to tell it to the judge.

    You have much to learn regarding use of force and good judgment. Hope you do so soon.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    OK, I knowI made a bad judgement call... I knew that from the get go... and yes it is a regrettable mistake. I am just glad It didn't end worse and that is the first and only bad judgement call I have made in my few years of OC and it will be the last I didn't post this for everyone to attack my judgement. I knowI was in the wrong there whatI was asking was pertaining to the secondary issue that arose from the police being called

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    PFC Helms wrote:
    OK, I knowI made a bad judgement call... I knew that from the get go... and yes it is a regrettable mistake. I am just glad It didn't end worse and that is the first and only bad judgement call I have made in my few years of OC and it will be the last I didn't post this for everyone to attack my judgement. I knowI was in the wrong there whatI was asking was pertaining to the secondary issue that arose from the police being called
    Problem is that this is an OC/self defense site not one for legal advice on such matters as that.

    You need an attorney - yesterday. Best advise that I can give.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Unless you and your roommate have seperate entrances to this structure, once the cops are in the front door, they are in charge of the domicile..

    If you knew within your heart of hearts, that you had no chance of diffusing the situation, you should've never confronted the roomie/jerk,

    calling the cops to make the fella quit making noise, is out of the question,

    calling the cops to file charges of assault, and proof that the alcohol wasn't yours and you weren't under age consuming is all in your favor IMHO.

    Taking an ass whoopin while armed , Ain't gonna happen here !!



    OH YEAH, better Lawyer up and Man up!!


  16. #16
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    If this is the first time you have been in trouble, take your chances in court. If you look presentable in court, say your "Ma'ams", "Sirs", "Thank yous", and "Pleases", it will probably be dismissed.

    OR...

    Plea guilty to the Minor In Possession charge. It's just a violation in KY, it's not even a misdemeanor.

    Tell your roommate that if he wants to keep beer, get a little dorm fridge and keep it in his room. Get a roommate that agrees not to have alcohol, etc.

    I am always stunned at the people who think their trouble starts when the cops show up, not all the hair-brained decisions they made prior to the cops getting there...

    Oh, yeah, and sell all your guns immediately. You are going to wind up in prison or in a graveyard by the time you are 30. In your "KY Militia" thread, this is literally cut and pasted...

    Exactly, we are trying to educate everybody in the rights and responsibilities that are for each citizen of this greatcommonwealth our entire senior staff all have military experience so far. either Army National Guard or Marine Corps. We are even planning on teaching classes in History and US Law some point before we even get into weapons training.

    Bolded text = FAIL.








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    PFC Helms wrote:
    Ok, I am writing in concern of an event that just happened. I was at home. My roommate and I had a bit of a disturbance. I am about 1/3 the size of my roommate and he had been drinking. and would not stop banging on his floor/my ceiling. i asked him to stop and he didn't i then went upstairs. to tell him to stop and he proceeded to throw a remote at my person and threaten me. I then drew my weapon and said stop. he came at me. I did not fire but yet against my better judgement lowered my weapon. andhestruck me across the face. He then proceeded to push me down the stairs and I caught myself. I went downstairs and called the police. I stayed separately from my roommate while i was on the phone with the dispatcher and she instructed me to leave my weapon away before the officers arrived. I left it downstairs. My witness a Military Police officer and i then proceeded outside to meet the officers as they arrived. We met them and they took our side of the story and then a few of the officers went inside to speak with my roommate. I advised the officer that I was speaking with that I did not consent to any searches of my area of the house which is the entire downstairs. I was then asked by another officer if he could take a look around i again replied "NO I do not consent to any searches"
    The S. Ct. already ruled any occupant can refuse search - evidence is suppressed if the police search. See http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5295373, then get a lawyer and file a suppression motion.

    And get a new roomate.

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    Just as an aside: An old black man told me to never pull a gun to scare anyone. If that's what I wanted to do, then remove the front sight blade. It makes it easier for the doctor to remove it from my a$$.

    This was on my paper route when I was 13 years old in 1955. I never forgot that. Yes....I carried my Dad's 38 special then.

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    Mike wrote:
    PFC Helms wrote:
    Ok, I am writing in concern of an event that just happened. I was at home. My roommate and I had a bit of a disturbance. I am about 1/3 the size of my roommate and he had been drinking. and would not stop banging on his floor/my ceiling. i asked him to stop and he didn't i then went upstairs. to tell him to stop and he proceeded to throw a remote at my person and threaten me. I then drew my weapon and said stop. he came at me. I did not fire but yet against my better judgement lowered my weapon. andhestruck me across the face. He then proceeded to push me down the stairs and I caught myself. I went downstairs and called the police. I stayed separately from my roommate while i was on the phone with the dispatcher and she instructed me to leave my weapon away before the officers arrived. I left it downstairs. My witness a Military Police officer and i then proceeded outside to meet the officers as they arrived. We met them and they took our side of the story and then a few of the officers went inside to speak with my roommate. I advised the officer that I was speaking with that I did not consent to any searches of my area of the house which is the entire downstairs. I was then asked by another officer if he could take a look around i again replied "NO I do not consent to any searches"
    The S. Ct. already ruled any occupant can refuse search - evidence is suppressed if the police search. See http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5295373, then get a lawyer and file a suppression motion.

    And get a new roomate.
    Guys, we aren't talking about a major narcotics bust here. Again, Minor In Possession is only a violation in KY.

    Either way, this was not a "search" of the house. It was a safety sweep for further weapons, and it does not have to be consented to by any party at the scene. If you ask the police to go into your home to deal with an issue,we can sweep the area to make sure it is safe forus to deal with the issue at hand. You can't ask us to blindly go through an unkown area without making the area reasonably safe to do so. You had already told them there was one weapon at the scene, and if there is one, we are trained to assume there are more.

    Additionally, your story doesn't add up, PFCHelms. You told the police that the entire downstairs was "your area" of the house, and that was where the beer was found? Guess what? That makes it your beer.

    Your are of house+beer=your beer.

    You tried to hide behind your gun, and you got spanked. You tried to hide behind the police, and you got spanked for that, as well.

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    Does your mommy know your out there playing with guns?

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    TheMrMitch wrote:
    Just as an aside: An old black man told me to never pull a gun to scare anyone. If that's what I wanted to do, then remove the front sight blade. It makes it easier for the doctor to remove it from my a$$.

    This was on my paper route when I was 13 years old in 1955. I never forgot that. Yes....I carried my Dad's 38 special then.
    My father would make the comment
    "Also a good coating of grease would help to" LOL!

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    farleyxc wrote:
    Does your mommy know your out there playing with guns?
    Me?



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    I was talking at Mr. Helms, sorry for the confusion.

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    PFC Helms, thank you for your service to your Country.
    I'm not in any position to offer legal advice, I've never been
    to Kentucky.
    This will all blow over, if I were you I would give up
    booze and drunken roomates.
    AA has a good method for stopping drinking, I would concentrate
    there for a few years and come back to the gun cause a little wiser and
    older.

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    chrsjhnsn wrote:
    PFC Helms, thank you for your service to your Country.
    the only service that tool's ever done is JROTC
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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