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Thread: "would you like a Glock with that haircut?"

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    I got a haircut at a local barbershop about a week ago. The one patron ahead of me was a police officer - in the chair, but almost finished.
    I noticed that the officer's gunbelt was draped over an open counter drawer. His semiauto pistol was holstered, but the muzzle was essentially pointed right at me, and by extension, at anyone walking by.

    I wasn't worried that the gun would just discharge itself, but it did occur to me that this might be poor muzzle discipline.

    Anyone agree/disagree or have other thoughts?



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    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    I don't see any problem except for maybe the distance between the officer and his sidearm. Was it close to him so nobody could snatch it?

    I work on a brigade staff, and I am constantly surrounded by officers with M9's carried in shoulder holsters. I have heard a few people here that freak out, or are uncomfortable because they can see down the barrel of the Beretta.

    I personally do not see a problem. Everyone here carries Israeli style. Even if somebody had a chambered round pointed at me in a shoulder holster,I would feel fine about it. What are the chances of a holstered sidearm "going off"?
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    The premise of muzzle discipline. Pla-eeze!

    If that was the case... all us citizens wearing the rig below are just as guilty!!

    We walk around all day pointing ourgun at peoplebehind us.


    I actually have this shoulder holster. Never gone off yet while in the holster. Actually, none of my guns have ever spontaneously fired while in the holster!!


    The laser rule only come into play when you draw and deploy your gun. Then you have to worry about that trigger finger shooting the gun before you are ready.







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    I agree. I agree that the machine per se is not inherently dangerous. The contrary is PC superstition making the gun a magical juju-stick. "Technology sufficiently advanced is not different from magic." Have we descended to aboriginal 'technology'?

    The four precepts of gun safety are 'precepts' and not principles (that will not be compromised).

    LOADED - All guns are loaded until they are not. MUZZLE - Cover with the muzzle only that which will be destroyed. TRIGGER - Keep your finger off the trigger. TARGET - Know the target and what is beyond.



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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    I agree that so long as this LEO did not leave his sidearm available to be grabbed by someone, there is nothing inherently wrong with leaving it as described in the OP. Firearms generally don't just "go off" when lying around.

    As for shoulder rigs, there is an issue but as Devils Advocate says, it is only during the draw, and only then if proper trigger discipline is not observed.

    All that said, it can be unnerving to some when they notice the muzzle of firearm pointed at them. I have on occasion had that feeling, but usually it is related more to the person and not so much the firearm itself.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
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    As a packing female who frequents salons, I must ask: Why did he disarm for a haircut?

    Do the rest of you guys disarm for a haircut?

    Do guys get some sort of special haircut treatments that require disarming? What am I missing here?

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Pamiam wrote:
    ...SNIP
    What am I missing here?
    Widthof the average LEO as compared to the width of the average chair.

    Plus all the other stuff on a LEO duty rig is a pain while seated.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Pamiam wrote:
    As a packing female who frequents salons, I must ask: Why did he disarm for a haircut?

    Do the rest of you guys disarm for a haircut?

    Do guys get some sort of special haircut treatments that require disarming? What am I missing here?
    My sidearm and associated equipment stays on my belt when I get a haircut, and I'm a fat guy too.

    Of course, he may have been uncomfortable with his radio and cuffs burrowing into his back.

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    Pamiam wrote:
    As a packing female who frequents salons, I must ask: Why did he disarm for a haircut?

    Do the rest of you guys disarm for a haircut?

    Do guys get some sort of special haircut treatments that require disarming? What am I missing here?
    I got a haircut yesterday while wearing a sixgun in western rig. Didn't get in my way.



    Side note: First time I OCed there she was fairly alarmed:what:by the sight of my gun. Yesterday (many months later) the conversation went like this,

    "Oh, did you get a new gunbelt?"

    "Naw, I just don't wear this one that often."

    "Well, It looks great!"

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    The only real problem I see is removing it places it away from his reach (most likely) and therefore out of his control.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    The only real problem I see is removing it places it away from his reach (most likely) and therefore out of his control.
    +1

    Bad idea nd likely against his departments policy.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Sheepdawg wrote:
    Pamiam wrote:
    As a packing female who frequents salons, I must ask: Why did he disarm for a haircut?

    Do the rest of you guys disarm for a haircut?

    Do guys get some sort of special haircut treatments that require disarming? What am I missing here?
    I got a haircut yesterday while wearing a sixgun in western rig. Didn't get in my way.



    Side note: First time I OCed there she was fairly alarmed:what:by the sight of my gun. Yesterday (many months later) the conversation went like this,

    "Oh, did you get a new gunbelt?"

    "Naw, I just don't wear this one that often."

    "Well, It looks great!"
    Now THIS is how it should be. Excellent ambassador action.


    I get my haircuts on a Navy base.
    I work on the same base.

    I can't even have a firearm in my car!
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    I personally think the 4 rules contain no exemptions. Some of you guys remember how my CZ fell on the hammer and shot me in the leg. That's as good of an example as any why you NEVER let the muzzle cover anything you aren't willing to destroy.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    My barber never says a word 'bout it - course he has been cutting my hair for over 20 years now.

    When I stop by there on a Sat (not often) a soccer mom may do a double take. :shock: Would love to hear the conversation after I leave but haven't been made privy to such.

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    Michigander wrote:
    I personally think the 4 rules contain no exemptions. Some of you guys remember how my CZ fell on the hammer and shot me in the leg. That's as good of an example as any why you NEVER let the muzzle cover anything you aren't willing to destroy.
    [For clarification, responding directly to Michigander's assertion of absolutes], not the OP]

    Then how do you walk into buildings with more than one floor? What is you are on the second floor and "sweep" people on the first floor? [/sarc]


    Was your CZ in a holster when it discharged? (I don't remember the incident) If not, you lost control of the firearm. [not asking for a repeat of the incident, nor do I care]

    While I don't agree with the LEO's practice of not maintaining positive control of his firearm, the firearm is in a holster with nothing touching the trigger.

    When deployed (as I am now) I carry my M9 in a SERPA holster mounted on my chest on my IBA...but it points down diagonally. Is that unsafe? IMO, no.

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    SIGguy229 wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    I personally think the 4 rules contain no exemptions. Some of you guys remember how my CZ fell on the hammer and shot me in the leg. That's as good of an example as any why you NEVER let the muzzle cover anything you aren't willing to destroy.
    Then how do you walk into buildings with more than one floor? What is you are on the second floor and "sweep" people on the first floor?


    Was your CZ in a holster when it discharged? (I don't remember the incident) If not, you lost control of the firearm.

    While I don't agree with the LEO's practice of not maintaining positive control of his firearm, the firearm is in a holster with nothing touching the trigger.

    When deployed (as I am now) I carry my M9 in a SERPA holster mounted on my chest on my IBA...but it points down diagonally. Is that unsafe? IMO, no.
    This a little off thread but....

    The floor of most multi-story building will quite severely slow if not stop most defensive rounds.

    The OP stated he wasn't worried about a discharge.

    There are accepted combat/hot zone tactics that are not always best when at home. I suspect you cannot carry stateside when entering the front gate - so there is a significant difference.

    No point in asking for a repeat report of an ND that I'm sure made a great impression. That's why OCDO has a search function. Try it - you might like it.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Walleye wrote:
    Pamiam wrote:
    As a packing female who frequents salons, I must ask: Why did he disarm for a haircut?

    Do the rest of you guys disarm for a haircut?

    Do guys get some sort of special haircut treatments that require disarming? What am I missing here?
    My sidearm and associated equipment stays on my belt when I get a haircut, and I'm a fat guy too.

    Of course, he may have been uncomfortable with his radio and cuffs burrowing into his back.
    Good for you, and his bad. If he was "uncomfortable" over his radio and cuffs, maybe he should have scheduled a haircut off-duty. "Wah" comes to mind.

    I don't disarm for a haircut, so I certainly expect a LEO to suck it up.

    Next time anyone sees something like this, tell the guy that Pam said he's a wuss.



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    Pamiam wrote:
    Walleye wrote:
    Pamiam wrote:
    As a packing female who frequents salons, I must ask: Why did he disarm for a haircut?

    Do the rest of you guys disarm for a haircut?

    Do guys get some sort of special haircut treatments that require disarming? What am I missing here?
    My sidearm and associated equipment stays on my belt when I get a haircut, and I'm a fat guy too.

    Of course, he may have been uncomfortable with his radio and cuffs burrowing into his back.
    Good for you, and his bad. If he was "uncomfortable" over his radio and cuffs, maybe he should have scheduled a haircut off-duty. "Wah" comes to mind.

    I don't disarm for a haircut, so I certainly expect a LEO to suck it up.

    Next time anyone sees something like this, tell the guy that Pam said he's a wuss.

    I thinks an assumption has been made here....

    How do we know the officer was on-duty while getting his hair cut? The haircutting while separated from his duty belt and firearm could very easily have occurred prior to his going on duty or after being relieved of duty.

    I have more of an issue with the distance of separation between the officer and the weapon. He could have very easily had same in his lap whilst getting his golden locks shortened!

    Damn, now you have me making assumptions!
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    JoeSparky wrote:
    Pamiam wrote:
    Walleye wrote:
    Pamiam wrote:
    As a packing female who frequents salons, I must ask: Why did he disarm for a haircut?

    Do the rest of you guys disarm for a haircut?

    Do guys get some sort of special haircut treatments that require disarming? What am I missing here?
    My sidearm and associated equipment stays on my belt when I get a haircut, and I'm a fat guy too.

    Of course, he may have been uncomfortable with his radio and cuffs burrowing into his back.
    Good for you, and his bad. If he was "uncomfortable" over his radio and cuffs, maybe he should have scheduled a haircut off-duty. "Wah" comes to mind.

    I don't disarm for a haircut, so I certainly expect a LEO to suck it up.

    Next time anyone sees something like this, tell the guy that Pam said he's a wuss.

    I thinks an assumption has been made here....

    How do we know the officer was on-duty while getting his hair cut?
    That his duty-belt was draped over a counter was the first clue. That the other patron knew he was a cop was the 2nd. You don't drape your duty-belt on the counter. Ever. Work it out or suck it up.


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    Pamiam wrote:
    JoeSparky wrote:
    Pamiam wrote:
    Walleye wrote:
    Pamiam wrote:
    As a packing female who frequents salons, I must ask: Why did he disarm for a haircut?

    Do the rest of you guys disarm for a haircut?

    Do guys get some sort of special haircut treatments that require disarming? What am I missing here?
    My sidearm and associated equipment stays on my belt when I get a haircut, and I'm a fat guy too.

    Of course, he may have been uncomfortable with his radio and cuffs burrowing into his back.
    Good for you, and his bad. If he was "uncomfortable" over his radio and cuffs, maybe he should have scheduled a haircut off-duty. "Wah" comes to mind.

    I don't disarm for a haircut, so I certainly expect a LEO to suck it up.

    Next time anyone sees something like this, tell the guy that Pam said he's a wuss.

    I thinks an assumption has been made here....

    How do we know the officer was on-duty while getting his hair cut?
    That his duty-belt was draped over a counter was the first clue. That the other patron knew he was a cop was the 2nd.

    Not be be arguementative but....

    I know SEVERAL LEO's and ALL leave their respective homes dressed in uniform with dutybelt and all associated equipment when going to work. Depending on the time of day, any one of them COULD stop for a haircut on the way in before going on duty or at the end of the duty shift on the way home.

    It is NOT uncommon in my area for the officers to have a car issued to them so that in a emergency they can respond more quickly. Some locals will even require them to use the patrol car when they are off duty so that if a crisis happens they can be immediately available.

    And I do agree with you about the duty belt... It should have either been locked in the car (I hate that) or either in place about his waist or somehow in his IMMEDIATE control.



    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  21. #21
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    JoeSparky wrote:
    And I do agree with you about the duty belt... It should have either been locked in the car (I hate that) or either in place about his waist or somehow in his IMMEDIATE control.


    This isn't rocket science, and I am no stranger to LEOs.

    It didn't have to be locked in the car at all. You don't drape your duty-belt on the counter for a haircut. Ever. If one has to get a haircut, schedule for civvies or suck it up in uniform. Anything less is unacceptable and unjustifiable.



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    I would be more than justa little uncomfortable relinquishing control of my gun in a public setting.

  23. #23
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    Pamiam wrote:

    This isn't rocket science, and I am no stranger to LEOs.

    It didn't have to be locked in the car at all. You don't drape your duty-belt on the counter for a haircut. Ever. If one has to get a haircut, schedule for civvies or suck it up in uniform. Anything less is unacceptable and unjustifiable.


    I am no longer a LEO... however... then or now I 'NEVER' take off my gunbelt for a haircut... (never got one in uniform or on-duty either for that matter). 'Do that on yer own time.


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    You should have just walked over there, pulled it out and started saying, wow nice piece, who's this far ?

    :P

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    I think my issues with this situation were (as the original poster)

    1. A bit unnerving to be staring down the barrel of a gun. Just a bit, and it didn't cause me to move my seat or anything.

    2. Weapon retention issues for this Officer

    3. Weapon accessibility issues for this Officer.

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