Wisconsin gun activists donate to Brad Krause's attorney's escrow account.

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ccwtrainer wrote:

It would cost us more for the attorney to do the accounting than you are willing to donate, so if you can't send it to me like everyone else, just keep your money.

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I can't believe you said this. I would think you would be pleased with every dollar you received. That stupid statement probably cost you a number of donations.

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Lammie wrote:

ccwtrainer wrote:

It would cost us more for the attorney to do the accounting than you are willing to donate, so if you can't send it to me like everyone else, just keep your money.

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I can't believe you said this. I would think you would be pleased with every dollar you received. That stupid statement probably cost you a number of donations.

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Pay to play politics is the NRA way.

An attorney has to pay for the accounting of his escrow account however large or small, busy or idle. It is exactly this protection that I am demanding. 'Protection' from hijacking the funds.

I wonder who is the "us" that is divided from the 'we' that might contribute.

I may be in contact with the attorney and, if given permission, will post the information.

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Doug Huffman wrote:

Lammie wrote:

ccwtrainer wrote:

It would cost us more for the attorney to do the accounting than you are willing to donate, so if you can't send it to me like everyone else, just keep your money.

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I can't believe you said this. I would think you would be pleased with every dollar you received. That stupid statement probably cost you a number of donations.

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Pay to play politics is the NRA way.

An attorney has to pay for the accounting of his escrow account however large or small, busy or idle. It is exactly this protection that I am demanding. 'Protection' from hijacking the funds.

I wonder who is the "us" that is divided from the 'we' that might contribute.

I may be in contact with the attorney and, if given permission, will post the information.

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The escrow account belongs to the client, so what is to say Brad does not divert the funds and give it to the causes you do not like, Doug?

I really think this whole thread you started is plainly disruptive - not constructive criticism, which by the way, does not have to be nice criticism - after all, a lot of us including the Georgia Carry lawyer-organizers have criticised the Wisconsin efforts on a variety of grounds and we are not backing down. But that does not mean its OK to beat on everybody and everything.

It would appear that the criminal case against brad is weak or non-existent. it also appears some press folks are getting educted and waking up. Planning forward, where is the first Spring open carry picnic in Wisconsin?

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Mike wrote:

The escrow account belongs to the client, so what is to say Brad does not divert the funds and give it to the causes you do not like, Doug?

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Brad is welcome to use his funds as he will. I like Brad's 'cause'. If Brad will reward Gene German for his efforts that's fine. I'm sure that is what Gene German expects, if not money then notoriety. I disagree but that's the cost of doing this business.

I do not 'like' the cause of the continuing proliferation of spokesperson-entities for gun advocacy in Wisconsin. I've had a bellyfull of NRA, WCCA, WGO, WPM, and finally the self-named Wisconsin Patriots (as though anyone that isn't isn't).

But my brief experience as a non-professional employee of a general practice firm in SC informs me that the attorney maintains an escrow account for funds apart from his business funds. I could be wrong.

But it is my little bit of money over which I have control.

ETA much later 1036; A Wisconsin attorney is not required to maintain an escrow account. If he does so then there are "many hoops to jump through". Not only may I control my dollars, but also my signature petitioning redress of grievance and my vote be it formal or not.

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Mike wrote:

- after all, a lot of us including the Georgia Carry lawyer-organizers have criticised the Wisconsin efforts on a variety of grounds and we are not backing down. But that does not mean its OK to beat on everybody and everything.

Mike -

What exactly are we being criticized about? (obviously all the childish bantering) What are the professional opinions of the Georgia Carry lawyer’s on this case? I get the feeling we are making a big deal of it to fast.



I know a few of us are dedicated to making progress and need, and I particularly, would be very interested an unbiased professional opinion on a next step or anything else relevant to this cause. I like the idea of an O.C. picnic but I think it would be foolish to just do it without an extensive amount of legal preparation and without the presence of an attorney(s) at the event just as a start. (I know an arrest for D.C. would jeopardize my C.C.W’s and my F.F.L. that is in the works)



Your input please, some of us will listen.

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Doug Huffman wrote:

I do not 'like' the cause of the continuing proliferation of spokesperson-entities for gun advocacy in Wisconsin. I've had a bellyfull of NRA, WCCA, WGO, WPM, and finally the self-named Wisconsin Patriots (as though anyone that isn't isn't).

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WGO does not appear to be an advocate for anyone in Wisconsin except for the ego of its founder and the personal recipient of its donations received...... AllWGO accomplishes is disruption and division. Theyare proud that the PPA was defeated by Doyle and this veto was not able to be overturned.They claim some responsibility for thedefeat of the veto override attempt.

Although they serve a useful national purpose, the NRA is doinglittle to advance our cause here in WI.They did contribute over $258,000 for the fight against handgun bans in Milwaukee and Kenosha in the mid 1990s, but I am not sure of the amount of contributions if any for the fight to pass the PPA.Since this is a state wide issue, the cost for state wide advertising (propaganda) in support of gun rights and CCWwould be incredible..... Local groupshave a hard time raising that kind of cash...

Since Jim Fendry (WPM & WRPA) Dick Baker (WCCM) and Gene German (Wisconsin Patriots) all worked together in the fight for our CCW bill and WGO worked against the bill, it is easy to see who the good guys are here. Having 3 seperate organizations working together is not a problem if all 3 are working for the same cause. The 4th odd man out is a problem here as well intended funds are being diverted from our cause.

If you want an account of money contributed vs spent and were, the first object of your inquirey should be the WGO.

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fepowered wrote:

Since Jim Fendry (WCCM & WRPA) Dick Baker (Wisconsin Patriots) and Gene German (WPM) all worked together in the fight for our CCW bill and WGO worked against the bill, it is easy to see who the good guys are here. Having 3 seperate organizations working together is not a problem if all 3 are working for the same cause. The 4th odd man out is a problem here as well intended funds are being diverted from our cause.

If you want an account of money contributed vs spent and were, the first object of your inquirey should be the WGO.

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Let's keep the people straight here.

Jim Fendry has Wisconsin Pro-Gun Movement.

Dick Baker has the WCCA / WCCM.

You know who the NRA is.

None of these groups are supporting the efforts of the Wisconsin Patriots. Most are in fact working against us, some more than others.

I don't like "groups" for several reasons. The most important is they serve as a crutch for people to carry the water for them instead of getting off their backsides and actually doing something constructive.

The three groups mentioned are all about guns. This is about restoring liberty in Wisconsin. Period. That's why I started the Patriots.

I think most of you on this board can figure out who is actually working toward that goal and who just likes to hear themselves type.

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fepowered wrote:

all worked together in the fight for our CCW bill

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This is OpenCarry.com's forum.

If I recall correctly, WisconsinShooters.com http://www.wisconsinshooters.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=18&sid=4960d77c60c8f2546a22ef62a6a596e6 maintains the concealed carry forum for WCCA with 63 topics and 537 replies.

In Wisconsin concealed carry is illegal and open carry is legal. Open carry observes the uninfringed Second Amendment. Mandatory and/or licensed concealed carry is an infingement that enables the movement to further infingement. Let's advance the cause of a legal activity.

In the beginning there was an undivided whole. Then the NRA divided pro-gun people from anti-gun people. And WCCA divided concealed carry advocates from pro-gun advocates. And WGA divided anti-NRA from pro-NRA.

Then OpenCDO tried to provide a forum for all pro-gun people (and in Wisconsin)...and there is further talk of dividing the leaderless from the followers in the hollow name of patriotism (that I'm sure Sarah Brady claims).

I have never promised salvation through me only, "do this in rememberance of me." I will do as I will and y'all are quite free to ignore my criticisms. There is an essential tension between community and freedom.

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*

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ccwtrainer wrote:

Let's keep the people straight here.

Jim Fendry has Wisconsin Pro-Gun Movement.

Dick Baker has the WCCA / WCCM.

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Sorry Gene. It was a typo and an unintended mistake. That is the danger of trying to type quickly while at work...

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NOTE: This is not a general discussion web site - even the thread for "general discussions" must be fairly related to open carry,firearms and gun rights. Please police your own posts before posting them and help keep OCDO strong and focussed. If you think the post is questionable, please don't post it. Thanks!


Note the "and gun rights." It is topical, whether you agree with the group in question or not. Your continued rants about specific groups that support the 2nd amendment show a duplicity and divisiveness that does advocacy no good.







Doug Huffman wrote:

fepowered wrote:

all worked together in the fight for our CCW bill

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This is OpenCarry.com's forum.

If I recall correctly, WisconsinShooters.com http://www.wisconsinshooters.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=18&sid=4960d77c60c8f2546a22ef62a6a596e6 maintains the concealed carry forum for WCCA with 63 topics and 537 replies.

In Wisconsin concealed carry is illegal and open carry is legal. Open carry observes the uninfringed Second Amendment. Mandatory and/or licensed concealed carry is an infingement that enables the movement to further infingement. Let's advance the cause of a legal activity.

In the beginning there was an undivided whole. Then the NRA divided pro-gun people from anti-gun people. And WCCA divided concealed carry advocates from pro-gun advocates. And WGA divided anti-NRA from pro-NRA.

Then OpenCDO tried to provide a forum for all pro-gun people (and in Wisconsin)...and there is further talk of dividing the leaderless from the followers in the hollow name of patriotism (that I'm sure Sarah Brady claims).

I have never promised salvation through me only, "do this in rememberance of me." I will do as I will and y'all are quite free to ignore my criticisms. There is an essential tension between community and freedom.

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ccwtrainer wrote:

None of these groups are supporting the efforts of the Wisconsin Patriots. Most are in fact working against us, some more than others.

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I never realized that there was so much division..... I had thought that everyone was working together when CCW was being pushed. I simply do not understand the animosityagainst open carry by the same people who fought for concealed carry......

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Doug Huffman wrote:

Parabellum wrote:

This is not what Brad wanted. He wanted the Patriots to keep an accounting of the funds. Stop trying to derail efforts made by the Patriots. Brad is a WI Patriot, and has been one long before myself. Your dislike of Gene is clouding your judgement. You are doing great harm to the credibility of the Patriots at a time when they are the ONLY organization helping Brad out. The WI Patriots are nothing more than a group of people, a mechanic, a scientist, a technician, a handgun trainer, a driver, an IT Specilist, and others individuals all with their own ideas of what should be the ultimate goal. Gene is but one voice, he is not the official leader and has been disagreed with many times and his ideas have been rejected as well on occasion. Brad was one of the individuals who disagreed with Gene when Gene and I had our "discussion". Brad and I both ask you, PLEASE STOP. The time to derail Gene is not yet at hand(in fact, now is the worst time to derail his efforts). And by the way, Gene was stopped from incorporating the WI Patriots into his oranization.

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Do not abuse my Private Messages in box.  I conduct no adversarial business 'in private' but only in the full light of public attention.

ETA much later: The moderator knows well that this is his site and that I do not quibble with his right and power to delete anything he wishes.  You will have to convince me here in public of why I should delete a message from my inbox

I trusted and complied with the request, from this same gang of artful dodgers, for county resolution petitions and verified that the request was not made in good faith = FAIL.  Tell me how this is different.

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I must post on this issue one time to make some things clear. First off, there is no effort whatever to "derail" Gene German's efforts within the Wisconsin Patriots. To the contrary, we are most pleased to have him as a fellow Patriot and lover of liberty. I have been to every Wisconsin Patriots meeting and event since it was founded so I can speak with some knowledge on that issue. I have no idea where Jesus has gotten this idea but it is not at all based in reality. Gene is well respected, a man of proven character and has devoted a great deal of personal time, and I might add, resources to the cause of restoring liberty to Wisconsin. In addition there has not been any effort by Gene to incorporate the Wisconsin Patriots "into his own organization". Again a totally false and contrived statement. The leadership group within the Wisconsin Patriots is most happy with Gene, his ideas, his contributions and we are all pleased to call him friend.

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fepowered wrote:

I never realized that there was so much division..... I had thought that everyone was working together...

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Well yeah. It's one of the reasons I'm not a joiner. I can't keep straight who likes who, who hates who, who belongs to what.... I'm a loner and work independently, doing what I can to protect and expand gun rights. I treat each as an individual and try to avoid personality issues and stick to THE issues.

The only exception is one who is full of bunk and debunked ideas... I won't mention names....

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fepowered wrote:

I never realized that there was so much division..... I had thought that everyone was working together when CCW was being pushed. I simply do not understand the animosityagainst open carry by the same people who fought for concealed carry......

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How you carry a gun (concealed), makes this about guns. Those who only want concealed carry must believe they have no option to carry at all today, so that makes 941.23 unconstitutional in their eyes.

That you have a right to carry (even if you do not want to carry right now), makes this about restoring your liberty and your freedom to exercise it. Open carry is in fact lawful and is in fact the reason why 941.23 is constitutional. It is not a ban on carry.That logic goes directly against the concealed carry people's agenda.We are proving them wrong and they don't like that.

These are two entirely differentissues and points of view.

Personally, I believe how a person carries a gun be it openly or concealed should be left up to the individual, as their particular time and circumstances dictate. I mostly open carry, but when common sense says it is smarter to conceal the gun, then I do.

I am from the future of what I hope Wisconsin will become. I know that scares some of you. Untilyou can strap on a gun and freely gointo publicwithout any fear of arrestor harassment you have to admitthat the right and freedom to bear arms that you have today is not much.

You all have a lotto gainif what we're doing works and really little if anythingto loose. Howcan you be worse off than you already are?You have to either go unarmed or decide to just break the law today.

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To move the focus back to Brad, I believe it is time to donate. We can keep bickering about the destination of $25 from Doug but that isn't really the point. Brad needs our help to win his case and WHEN he wins we can all stop being so timid and walk about with our guns on our hips.

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smithman wrote:

To move the focus back to Brad, I believe it is time to donate. We can keep bickering about the destination of $25 from Doug but that isn't really the point. Brad needs our help to win his case and WHEN he wins we can all stop being so timid and walk about with our guns on our hips.

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The minimum amount Brad needs to pay to play in the WISC is $50,000. It will likely cost him more than that.

That is the minimum amounteach of you can expect to pay if you get busted and want to fight instead of just paying a $1,000 fine, loosing your gun and promising never to do that again.

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The battle must be waged, state by state and on the federal level. We have been under a full court press by those who care not for our constitution.

Whatever Brad decides to do must be tempered by the price he will need to pay. My answer has always been what good is my money, if my freedom is gone?

http://www.ycgg.org legal issues page

God bless you Brad