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Thread: Permitted CC OK in GW National Forest?

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    I'm about to go for a hike, and the website from the forest service says it is illegal outside of hunting season. DGIF says so, too. State Police website doesn't say at all. Google wasn't much help. Did the law change to allow it in national forests? Is a Nat Forest a Nat Park?

    Thanks,
    Ryan

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    This brings up a good question for me also. I OC'd to the range in Blacksburg that we went to and then OC'd when we 4 wheeled for a while then it struck me. Was I carrying illegally if I was OCing and is that considered a state park??? I quickly unloaded the pistol and wrapped it up and put it in the truck just in case.:shock: I'm not sure about CC but is that whole area by VT a state park where the range is?

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    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    This brings up a good question for me also. I OC'd to the range in Blacksburg that we went to and then OC'd when we 4 wheeled for a while then it struck me. Was I carrying illegally if I was OCing and is that considered a state park??? I quickly unloaded the pistol and wrapped it up and put it in the truck just in case.:shock: I'm not sure about CC but is that whole area by VT a state park where the range is?
    Range (and going to the range) was exempted previously, so no worries there (so far as I know, I'm not a lawyer). 4wheeling on the other hand, I have no idea where you went, but that could have been not as kosher.

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    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    This brings up a good question for me also. I OC'd to the range in Blacksburg that we went to and then OC'd when we 4 wheeled for a while then it struck me. Was I carrying illegally if I was OCing and is that considered a state park??? I quickly unloaded the pistol and wrapped it up and put it in the truck just in case.:shock: I'm not sure about CC but is that whole area by VT a state park where the range is?
    It's a national forest (Jefferson). Concealed carry is ok in National forest with a CHP. I don't think OC is allowed except for hunting.

    Edit: or maybe OC is ok... I found conflicting stories and reading (18USC ยง 930) isnt helping. BTW,a National Park and National Forest are different.

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    double.

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    A national forest is not a national park. Two different entities within the Dept. of Interior. In practical terms, the local Sheriff's office responds to LE incidents within a National Forest, unless it's a hunting accident - then DGIF investigates, and also exercises jurisdiction with the Forest.

    It's a bit of a muddy area as some laws regarding hunting regulations overlap with general firearmlaws.

    I believe (and this is certainly my own opinion...) that you should be okay as far as CC is concerned.

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    If you have a CHP you are fine to cc. The main page http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/gwj/general_info/index.shtml implies in the top 3rd of the page that weapons are not allowed inNational Forests. However, if you scroll down further it has exceptions to the no weapons allowed. IMO, they do a crappy job of explaining the rules.

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    No, National Forests are NOT part of the Department of the Interior. National Forests fall under the Department of Agriculture; remember, the whole point was to have a stock of renewable resources available to harvest. While there are recreation areas in National Forests, recreation is not the primary reason for existence of the Forests. Hence, you will find the regs on carry in a Forest in a slightly different section of the CFR than you would for the Parks. See


    http://www.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/cf...i?title=200736.

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    I'll make sure not to OC at all next time when I am down there. That could have been bad

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    Firearms regulations as pertaining to National Forests in and Game Department lands inVirginia


    http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting...ationalforests



    Regulations Specific to National Forest and Game Department Lands

    It shall be unlawful to have in possession a bow or gun which is not unloaded and cased or dismantled on all National Forest lands statewide, or on Departmentowned lands and on lands managed by the Department under cooperative agreement in counties west of the Blue Ridge Mountains except during the period when it is lawful to take bear, deer, grouse, pheasant, quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey or waterfowl on these lands; and on Department-owned lands and on lands managed by the Department under cooperative agreement in counties east of the Blue Ridge Mountains except during the period when it is lawful to take bear, deer, grouse, pheasant, quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey, waterfowl or migratory game birds on these lands.

    Except as provided by special concealed handgun permit, it shall be unlawful to possess or transport a loaded gun in or on any vehicle at any time on National Forest lands or Department-owned lands.
    "Loaded gun" is defined as a firearm in which ammunition is chambered or loaded in the magazine or clip, when such magazine or clip is found engaged or partially engaged in a firearm. The definition of a loaded muzzleloading gun will include a gun which is capped or has a charged pan.

    The word "possession" shall include, but not be limited to, having any bow or firearm in or on one's person, vehicle or conveyance.

    It is unlawful to chase with a dog or train dogs on National Forest lands or Department-owned lands except during authorized hunting, chase or training seasons that specifically permit these activities on these lands.

    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    Alright, well I just got back from the longest 4mile piece of the Appalachian Trail that I think exists...that sucker felt like it was 19 miles long, straight up the side of a mountain.

    I went w/out the gun since I was unsure.

    The exemption that seems to apply on the Nat Forest page is :
    The second exception to this law allows people with a concealed weapon permit to carry a loaded, concealed, handgun either on their person or in their vehicle while on National Forest. This does not apply if the person is engaged in a primitive weapons season or chase only season.
    BUT, I'm still unsure if that exemption only pertains to hunting season...seems the rest of the verbiage in that section of the page deals with hunting...

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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    Alright, well I just got back from the longest 4mile piece of the Appalachian Trail that I think exists...that sucker felt like it was 19 miles long, straight up the side of a mountain.

    I went w/out the gun since I was unsure.

    The exemption that seems to apply on the Nat Forest page is :
    The second exception to this law allows people with a concealed weapon permit to carry a loaded, concealed, handgun either on their person or in their vehicle while on National Forest. This does not apply if the person is engaged in a primitive weapons season or chase only season.
    BUT, I'm still unsure if that exemption only pertains to hunting season...seems the rest of the verbiage in that section of the page deals with hunting...
    We are fine with a CHP regardless of the season, they just do a crappy job of explaining the rules.



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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    I'm about to go for a hike, and the website from the forest service says it is illegal outside of hunting season. DGIF says so, too.
    huh? You wanna post some cites to authority for your claims above? Concealed carry has long been legal in National Forests in Virginia.

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    Mike wrote:
    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    I'm about to go for a hike, and the website from the forest service says it is illegal outside of hunting season. DGIF says so, too.
    huh? You wanna post some cites to authority for your claims above? Concealed carry has long been legal in National Forests in Virginia.
    Sure thing:

    From the "General Information" page of the George Washington and Jefferson National Forest:
    Weapons are not allowed on national forest lands outside of hunting seasons. ( See State Game Regulations.) Firearm ranges are the exception.
    That being the only thing I read since it allowed for only one exception, a range, to which I was not headed.

    From DGIF's "Public Lands" page:

    It shall be unlawful to have in possession a bow or gun which is not unloaded and cased or dismantled on all National Forest lands statewide, or on Departmentowned lands and on lands managed by the Department under cooperative agreement in counties west of the Blue Ridge Mountains except during the period when it is lawful to take bear, deer, grouse, pheasant, quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey or waterfowl on these lands; and on Department-owned lands and on lands managed by the Department under cooperative agreement in counties east of the Blue Ridge Mountains except during the period when it is lawful to take bear, deer, grouse, pheasant, quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey, waterfowl or migratory game birds on these lands.

    Except as provided by special concealed handgun permit, it shall be unlawful to possess or transport a loaded gun in or on any vehicle at any time on National Forest lands
    or Department-owned lands. "Loaded gun" is defined as a firearm in which ammunition is chambered or loaded in the magazine or clip, when such magazine or clip is found engaged or partially engaged in a firearm. The definition of a loaded muzzleloading gun will include a gun which is capped or has a charged pan.

    The word "possession" shall include, but not be limited to, having any bow or firearm in or on one's person, vehicle or conveyance.
    So as I read those two, I can have a gun on National Forest lands 1.) At or on my way to a range. 2.) While hunting or 3.) with a "special concealed handgun permit" I can have one, but only in or on my vehicle.

    I've since been told it is legal, but to go check the two places I thought to check, you'd sure think it was illegal...that's why I asked.



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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    From DGIF's "Public Lands" page:

    Except as provided by special concealed handgun permit, it shall be unlawful to possess or transport a loaded gun in or on any vehicle at any time on National Forest lands or Department-owned lands. "Loaded gun" is defined as a firearm in which ammunition is chambered or loaded in the magazine or clip, when such magazine or clip is found engaged or partially engaged in a firearm. The definition of a loaded muzzleloading gun will include a gun which is capped or has a charged pan.

    The word "possession" shall include, but not be limited to, having any bow or firearm in or on one's person, vehicle or conveyance.
    So as I read those two, I can have a gun on National Forest lands 1.) At or on my way to a range. 2.) While hunting or 3.) with a "special concealed handgun permit" I can have one, but only in or on my vehicle.
    no - if you have a CHP, you may carry concealed in the National Forests in VA. These web postings are pretty much mush - you should contact these agencies and ask them to correct them or get rid of them.

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    Mike wrote:
    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    From DGIF's "Public Lands" page:

    Except as provided by special concealed handgun permit, it shall be unlawful to possess or transport a loaded gun in or on any vehicle at any time on National Forest lands or Department-owned lands. "Loaded gun" is defined as a firearm in which ammunition is chambered or loaded in the magazine or clip, when such magazine or clip is found engaged or partially engaged in a firearm. The definition of a loaded muzzleloading gun will include a gun which is capped or has a charged pan.

    The word "possession" shall include, but not be limited to, having any bow or firearm in or on one's person, vehicle or conveyance.
    So as I read those two, I can have a gun on National Forest lands 1.) At or on my way to a range. 2.) While hunting or 3.) with a "special concealed handgun permit" I can have one, but only in or on my vehicle.
    no - if you have a CHP, you may carry concealed in the National Forests in VA. These web postings are pretty much mush - you should contact these agencies and ask them to correct them or get rid of them.
    I just sent a 'Request for Correction of Information' to the US Forest Service for their webpage and will do the same for DGIF.

    As I said, I searched where I knew to search, came up with the conclusion that it was not allowed, asked here and have since been corrected by folks on this website. Hopefully it gets changed based on my requests as it is very misleading.



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    Is there a URL for these pages you've quoted? I looked, but all the ones I could find had exceptions listed for CHP holders. They did still say that you had to be unloaded in a vehicle though.

    http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting...ubliclands.asp

    TFred


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    That leaves an opening for ambiguity, doesn't it?

    I would hope that my permit to CC would stay in effect in my own car.

    Sometimes I think these things are written to be deliberately analogous.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    TFred wrote:
    Is there a URL for these pages you've quoted? I looked, but all the ones I could find had exceptions listed for CHP holders. They did still say that you had to be unloaded in a vehicle though.

    http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting...ubliclands.asp

    TFred
    The "unloaded in a vehicle" from the link you provided refers to WMA's, not necessarily National Forests. Scroll down for National Forest regs, which include the piece I quoted above. I read it to mean you could only possess or transport in your car, with a CHP...that's apparently not the correct way to read what it says.

    Here's the GW and Jefferson Forest's General Info page: http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/gwj/general_info/index.shtml

    Toward the top of the page there is a quote that reads as I quoted it above. It is under the heading "Fireworks and Firearms" which is a sub-heading of "General Rules of Conduct". That was what I would think a reasonable person would read if they were looking for rules regarding firearms? Reading further, at the bottom of the page is a contradictory (and apparently correct) wording which has more exceptions than just shooting ranges.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to argue, if folks either innately know or can easily find that carry is legal on a piece of land that is federally owned, good for them. I was apparently either reading too hard or not hard enough, because I found more places that said it was NOT allowed than places that said it was allowed. Certainly I'm of the opinion that it should be allowed.


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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    Is there a URL for these pages you've quoted? I looked, but all the ones I could find had exceptions listed for CHP holders. They did still say that you had to be unloaded in a vehicle though.

    http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting...ubliclands.asp

    TFred
    The "unloaded in a vehicle" from the link you provided refers to WMA's, not necessarily National Forests. Scroll down for National Forest regs, which include the piece I quoted above. I read it to mean you could only possess or transport in your car, with a CHP...that's apparently not the correct way to read what it says.

    Here's the GW and Jefferson Forest's General Info page: http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/gwj/general_info/index.shtml

    Toward the top of the page there is a quote that reads as I quoted it above. It is under the heading "Fireworks and Firearms" which is a sub-heading of "General Rules of Conduct". That was what I would think a reasonable person would read if they were looking for rules regarding firearms? Reading further, at the bottom of the page is a contradictory (and apparently correct) wording which has more exceptions than just shooting ranges.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to argue, if folks either innately know or can easily find that carry is legal on a piece of land that is federally owned, good for them. I was apparently either reading too hard or not hard enough, because I found more places that said it was NOT allowed than places that said it was allowed. Certainly I'm of the opinion that it should be allowed.
    Hmm, the last time I was on a WMA I read that it was OK to cc as long as the person hada CHP.

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