San Diego Open Carry Meet

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MEPDtoUSBP wrote:

How would you guys feel about an LEO coming? I was thinking about attending but don't know for sure if i will be working or not. Also, I'm not sure if I will OC...it's kind of a grey area in our departmental policy.

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that would be cool if you came, this way you and everyone else attending can hear my recording of my arrest last week.

On a more serious note here...are we still on for tomorrow??

I'll be the guy wearing a plain white t-shirt, blue jeans and black work boots, black ball cap carrying a Glock in a Serpa Holster on my right side.

Hmmm...I think I just described almost everyone attending huh...my bad....

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as far as i am aware we are still on. just do not enter the lifeguard tower. i beleive meeting time is around 0930

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if anyone in San Diego is going and would like to carpool, I would volunteer to drive as I have an SUV and have plenty of room. Send me a PM if anyone is interested, maybe would could meet someone like Fashion Valley Mall parking lot and drive from there as its not that far of a drive or somewhere else.
Just trying to make it easier as I know there isn't going to be much ample parking over near this meeting venue area as a lot of beach goers tend to go early and it being Saturday with no school, a lot of people will be there filling up parking areas. Anyway, anyone interested, lemme know...

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Updates? Pics? Video?

Inquiring minds want to know!

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I was there today, it was quite a good turn out, some 60 folks showed up. We all gathered at the Lifeguard Tower to meet up there for people to show. Of course, the San Diego Police Department was there in show of...well, not force...but to make sure the peace is maintained??...lol.

We all went our ways to places to venture and to see what happened and to see the public's reaction. There were a lot of interested folks who were walking by, curious as to why there are so many people around with guns. Flyers were passed out to inform the public that this was a lawful thing to do and many were kinda confused, but the flyers had all the info.

Some of us broke off into smaller groups, there were four of us who were with me. We decided to find a Subway which we couldnt find so we settled for Taco Bell. In that process, myself and a cohort were checked for 12031 by SDPD and there was absolutely no problems checking my weapon. I had a magazine in mine so he had to pull my weapon from the holster. This happened once we were all dispersed and looking for a place to meet. The funny thing with this contact, SDPD was on the opposite corner from us and I had saw them cross the street to be directly across from us. Well, turning left at that intersection was a large fire department truck and the officers used that as a way to "sneak" behind a school bus parked where they were standing. So, as myself and cohorts were crossing the street, they approached us once we were on their side of the street and made the contact.

Went like this...

SDPD #1: Excuse me sir, may I inspect your weapon please?
Me: yes you may sir, go right ahead
SDPD #1: (checking weapon, weapon verified for unloaded status and IMMEDIATELY returned to me) Whats your name?
Me: (I gave him my name and address and info only because I wanted to let him know that I was just a cooperating citizen in his request. Off we went...

I know you guys are gonna slam me for that but I did it on my own free will to show him that we are good people and that we were not there to cause any problems. So slam me for saying that, I am well aware I do not have to give any other info than that. The officers name was Douglas...I think it was B. Douglas and wanted to say thanks to him for being very polite and professional about the whole contact with me. It was way better than the treatment I got from El Cajon PD.

I also was able to play my recording of my arrest last week and about everyone who heard it laughed at the officer on the recording for his being so sure he had me on a good arrest....lol. All in all, was a great time, I had fun meeting everyone, just wished I could of stayed longer.

Nate, great job on the meeting, lets do another very soon....

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Looks like the updates are happening on the Cal Guns forum here....

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=148494&page=50

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giaking70 wrote:

I was there today, it was quite a good turn out, some 60 folks showed up. We all gathered at the Lifeguard Tower to meet up there for people to show. Of course, the San Diego Police Department was there in show of...well, not force...but to make sure the peace is maintained??...lol.

We all went our ways to places to venture and to see what happened and to see the public's reaction. There were a lot of interested folks who were walking by, curious as to why there are so many people around with guns. Flyers were passed out to inform the public that this was a lawful thing to do and many were kinda confused, but the flyers had all the info.

Some of us broke off into smaller groups, there were four of us who were with me. We decided to find a Subway which we couldnt find so we settled for Taco Bell. In that process, myself and a cohort were checked for 12031 by SDPD and there was absolutely no problems checking my weapon. I had a magazine in mine so he had to pull my weapon from the holster. This happened once we were all dispersed and looking for a place to meet. The funny thing with this contact, SDPD was on the opposite corner from us and I had saw them cross the street to be directly across from us. Well, turning left at that intersection was a large fire department truck and the officers used that as a way to "sneak" behind a school bus parked where they were standing. So, as myself and cohorts were crossing the street, they approached us once we were on their side of the street and made the contact.

Went like this...

SDPD #1: Excuse me sir, may I inspect your weapon please?
Me: yes you may sir, go right ahead
SDPD #1: (checking weapon, weapon verified for unloaded status and IMMEDIATELY returned to me) Whats your name?
Me: (I gave him my name and address and info only because I wanted to let him know that I was just a cooperating citizen in his request. Off we went...

I know you guys are gonna slam me for that but I did it on my own free will to show him that we are good people and that we were not there to cause any problems. So slam me for saying that, I am well aware I do not have to give any other info than that. The officers name was Douglas...I think it was B. Douglas and wanted to say thanks to him for being very polite and professional about the whole contact with me. It was way better than the treatment I got from El Cajon PD.

I also was able to play my recording of my arrest last week and about everyone who heard it laughed at the officer on the recording for his being so sure he had me on a good arrest....lol. All in all, was a great time, I had fun meeting everyone, just wished I could of stayed longer.

Nate, great job on the meeting, lets do another very soon....

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In that case, I apologize for questioning your story. really. I know how it feels to be treated like a liar,when you're not lying, and it's not a good feeling. Good on you, sir.. /bow

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Cross-post of my comments on CalGuns.org:

I thought the event was very positive. Not as many people as I expected, though.
I had to leave after about an hour, I had some things I wanted to do with my son that were time sensitive.
I mainly came to talk with the police about what I could expect during an encounter around town. I spoke with the officers for several minutes about how it could go and came to some conclusions about how to make it a stress free experience for everyone. Capt. Zimmerman said that if we make it clear that we are part of the "open carry movement" it would clarify the situation early on.
The main thing is to listen to the instructions of the approaching officer carefully and follow instructions.
I asked if one of the officers would show me how he would go about checking to make sure my gun was unloaded and they accommodated me. He simply asked me to keep my hands where they were and he walked around behind me. He asked if there was a catch release on the holster and I told him it was a Serpa Blackhawk, he seemed familiar with it and had no trouble removing it. He explained everything he did as he did it. He released the mag, locked the slide back, and checked the chamber. He demonstrated excellent muzzle discipline the whole time, keeping it pointed at the ground.
He put the mag back in, released the slide, put the safety on and put it back in my holster.
The officers who were there were polite, respectful and very professional. I'm proud of the way the SDPD are rising to the occasion and not being heavy handed over this.
It was also good to match up some faces with the names from CalGuns and OpenCarry.org.
Like I said: a very positive event. Thank you to the guys who organized and kept it on track.

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seansean wrote:

giaking70 wrote:

I was there today, it was quite a good turn out, some 60 folks showed up. We all gathered at the Lifeguard Tower to meet up there for people to show. Of course, the San Diego Police Department was there in show of...well, not force...but to make sure the peace is maintained??...lol.

We all went our ways to places to venture and to see what happened and to see the public's reaction. There were a lot of interested folks who were walking by, curious as to why there are so many people around with guns. Flyers were passed out to inform the public that this was a lawful thing to do and many were kinda confused, but the flyers had all the info.

Some of us broke off into smaller groups, there were four of us who were with me. We decided to find a Subway which we couldnt find so we settled for Taco Bell. In that process, myself and a cohort were checked for 12031 by SDPD and there was absolutely no problems checking my weapon. I had a magazine in mine so he had to pull my weapon from the holster. This happened once we were all dispersed and looking for a place to meet. The funny thing with this contact, SDPD was on the opposite corner from us and I had saw them cross the street to be directly across from us. Well, turning left at that intersection was a large fire department truck and the officers used that as a way to "sneak" behind a school bus parked where they were standing. So, as myself and cohorts were crossing the street, they approached us once we were on their side of the street and made the contact.

Went like this...

SDPD #1: Excuse me sir, may I inspect your weapon please?
Me: yes you may sir, go right ahead
SDPD #1: (checking weapon, weapon verified for unloaded status and IMMEDIATELY returned to me) Whats your name?
Me: (I gave him my name and address and info only because I wanted to let him know that I was just a cooperating citizen in his request. Off we went...

I know you guys are gonna slam me for that but I did it on my own free will to show him that we are good people and that we were not there to cause any problems. So slam me for saying that, I am well aware I do not have to give any other info than that. The officers name was Douglas...I think it was B. Douglas and wanted to say thanks to him for being very polite and professional about the whole contact with me. It was way better than the treatment I got from El Cajon PD.

I also was able to play my recording of my arrest last week and about everyone who heard it laughed at the officer on the recording for his being so sure he had me on a good arrest....lol. All in all, was a great time, I had fun meeting everyone, just wished I could of stayed longer.

Nate, great job on the meeting, lets do another very soon....

Click to expand...

In that case, I apologize for questioning your story. really. I know how it feels to be treated like a liar,when you're not lying, and it's not a good feeling. Good on you, sir.. /bow

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seansean, your apology is most gracefully accepted, wish you could of been there to listen to it. In the mean time, I am still going to try and get it posted here...

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This event was a blazing success! I just posted my writeup on the blog. Please feel free to comment on the blog!

http://caopencarry.blogspot.com

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flintlock tom wrote:

Cross-post of my comments on CalGuns.org:

I thought the event was very positive. Not as many people as I expected, though.
I had to leave after about an hour, I had some things I wanted to do with my son that were time sensitive.
I mainly came to talk with the police about what I could expect during an encounter around town. I spoke with the officers for several minutes about how it could go and came to some conclusions about how to make it a stress free experience for everyone. Capt. Zimmerman said that if we make it clear that we are part of the "open carry movement" it would clarify the situation early on.
The main thing is to listen to the instructions of the approaching officer carefully and follow instructions.
I asked if one of the officers would show me how he would go about checking to make sure my gun was unloaded and they accommodated me. He simply asked me to keep my hands where they were and he walked around behind me. He asked if there was a catch release on the holster and I told him it was a Serpa Blackhawk, he seemed familiar with it and had no trouble removing it. He explained everything he did as he did it. He released the mag, locked the slide back, and checked the chamber. He demonstrated excellent muzzle discipline the whole time, keeping it pointed at the ground.
He put the mag back in, released the slide, put the safety on and put it back in my holster.
The officers who were there were polite, respectful and very professional. I'm proud of the way the SDPD are rising to the occasion and not being heavy handed over this.
It was also good to match up some faces with the names from CalGuns and OpenCarry.org.
Like I said: a very positive event. Thank you to the guys who organized and kept it on track.

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To whoever owns this site: this would be a good time to make up some "opencarry.org" t-shirts, if you haven't already-that would let everyone know what's up when we're all out and about OC'ing..would make for good media coverage as well. only takes one local station in L.A., for instance to show footage of a bunch of people in those shirts, open carrying, with LAPD in attendance(maybe with a comment on-camera) to put the movement on the map here..as long as it's in the public(and LEO) consciousness, things will progress faster, I think.

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'Good Show' Everyone! I feel like CA UOC is on auto pilot and I can now retire (tears of joy)

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Oops, we still need LOC :banghead:



Well back into the trenches!!! Tally Ho!!!



photo by Oleg Volk

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I was carrying with the slide locked back to avoid law enforcement touching my weapon. I also had a name tag with my name, Steve, on it.

I was walking with giaking, so dealt with the LEO ambush from behind the bus.

My 12031(e) stop (if you can call it that) went as such:

Officer: "Can I check your weapons?"

I turned so he could see through my weapon and verify its status.

Officer: "Oh, that's fine. You guys going to get something to eat or just walking?"

I said something like "Going to Subway" or "Getting something to eat" but the recorder didn't pick up exactly what I said.

Officer: "So your name's Steve... Stephen... what's your last name?"

Me: "I'm not really sure why that's relevant."

Officer: "That's fine, you don't have to tell me that."

The officer was fine to deal with. I would've been happier not being stopped but c'est la vie under tyranny of the State.

A guy who met up with us, Edgar, got 12031(e) stopped at about the same corner. Another person we met up with was told he had to present an ID when he was 12031(e) stopped.

With the exception of all the stops of the people who splintered off, I was ok with SDPD's handling of the matter. They remained a reasonable distance away while we were in our larger group.

There are much more important things for law enforcement to be doing than hassling a group of peaceful rights activists. It was a waste of resources and there was no protection and certainly no serving going on.

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giaking70 wrote:

...Went like this...

SDPD #1: Excuse me sir, may I inspect your weapon please?
Me: yes you may sir, go right ahead
SDPD #1: (checking weapon, weapon verified for unloaded status and IMMEDIATELY returned to me) Whats your name?
Me: (I gave him my name and address and info only because I wanted to let him know that I was just a cooperating citizen in his request. Off we went...

I know you guys are gonna slam me for that but I did it on my own free will to show him that we are good people and that we were not there to cause any problems. So slam me for saying that, I am well aware I do not have to give any other info than that...

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I'm not gonna slam you... I have a bad back, so I doubt I could do it anyhow...

While I disagree with the way you handled it, I respect your right to wave you're 4th amendment rights. I know not everybody agrees with my perspective, and I don't pretend my way is the only way to skin the proverbial cat.

However, for the sake of any newbies, here is how I would have reacted, and how I suggest everybody react to any questioning or search.

Officer: "Excuse me sir, may I inspect your weapon?"
Me: "I don't consent to any searches. However, I understand you believe CA PC 12031(e) gives you have a statutory power to detain me and search my weapon to see if it is loaded . Under duress of arrest I will submit to such search if so ordered."
(It's now likely the officer will order me to submit to the search, and I would comply, without further comment.)
Officer: "What's your name?"
Me: "It is my understanding that California has no 'stop and identify' statute, so I do not believe I am required to identify myself. I wish to go back about my lawful business. Am I free to go?"
(Any further detention would certainly result in a formal complaint, and likely a civil suit. I would make no further statements and answer no other questions until having an attorney present.)

Remember rule #1: Never talk to the police! (Unless you've witnessed a crime, and even then tread carefully.) If they approach you, 99.99% of the time, they're looking for a reason to arrest you. They are only talking to you in order to gather evidence. No good can come from it.

Some thing that being cordial with the police is going to be beneficial. Some think it shows "that we are good people and that we were not there to cause any problems." Well, I think it shows we are pushovers, willing to accept the abuse of power. I don't have to prove I'm a good person or that I'm not a trouble-maker. Until I'm engaged in criminal behavior, I deserve to be let alone to go about my lawful business. I think the better message to send is: "Don't tread on me."

We have a huge problem in this state's culture with being accepting of our gestapo state. We've been desensitized to it. Many of us have forgotten what it is to be free men. Some of us have never experienced it in order to forget it. That makes me sad and angry and strengthens my resolve to restore the tradition of liberty.

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Had a good day overall. I got there a little early, 9ish.

I managed to avoid any 12031(e) checks while safely surrounded by 3 or 4 other OCers. i had to leave a little early as it is quite a drive from San Diego to Rosamond.

I left shortly after 1:00 p.m.

On my way back to my car, I stopped and spoke with the Captain for a few minutes as she asked "Headed Home already?" as I was walking in the opposite direction from the bulk of the Calguns crew. I told her I had a long drive back to Rosamond, and thanked her for her cooperation. She was very cordial. She had another officer with her and he was reasonably cordial too. In the three minutes or so that we talked they didn't 12031(e) check me.

However, as soon as I started walking away from the Captain, two uniformed officers "scurried" accros the walkway to intercept me. I wasn't 30 feet from where the Captain and I had been talking. I didn't even have time to turn on my recorder.

It went as follows:

Officer 1: "We're gonna have to ask you if we can examine your weapon."
Me: "I don't consent to any searches, but I will comply if you demand me to."
Officer 1: "Great, please keep your hands in front of you and away from the weapon."
Officer 1 then removed my weapon and quickly checked it, removing the magazine and checking the chamber asking "What kind of gun is this?" before returning it to its holster.
I responded, "It's a Hi-Point C9."
He then said "Thanks, have a nice day." and proceeded down the walkway with his female partner who had remained silent through the entire process.

Then I proceed to walk down the walkway again going back towards the Pelican. I got another 30 feet of so and another set of officers spotted me all alone and pounced. With grins on their faces like "Oh boy we caught another one without the rest of the pack present!" As they approached I said "What? Not again?" and One of them asked if I had been checked already. I said "Yeah, by those two right over there!" and pointed at the two officers walking away. He said "Have a nice day then!" and proceeded to walk away with his partner.

I made it all the way to my car without further incident.

As for not having my recorder turned on. Well #%$# happens.

Just my stupid oversight. I knew that I was with Grammaton76 for the majority of the day, and as he was videotaping I got sloppy and thought I would save my battery for a bit, then forgot to start it back up when I left the area being recorded.

I honestly believe that they targeted me because I was alone. The only other person who I saw e-checked was a guy who had just crossed the street ahead of us as the crossing light changed. He was alone on the other side of the street when they pounced into action.

I was alone, away from the comfort and protection of the herd, easily singled out and targeted as prey.

I really wasn't worried about being roughed up, or thrown to the ground and cuffed, as I was only about 30 feet from the Captain and maybe 60 feet from the "Grassy Knoll" where the rest of the CalGuns crew were gathering.

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I hope everyone understands why the 12031 (e) checks are only occuring when activists are alone or easily 'singled out'. The police are chosing to control the circumstances and environment under which they are conducting the search. It is important to note that they would not approach agroup of 3 or morewhere they would be outnumbered or could not readily contain the situation if one of the activists were to forcefully resist.

What this means is that SDPD feels obligated to do an (e) check if they control the encounter. It also means that if a group of three or more is going to be split up if the police are determined to conduct a check with superior numbers.

Not only did we learn some important information in this event, but SDPD got some practice in handling 'carry activists'. While it went a long way to bringing more people to be comfortable with excersizing the 2A, Im not certainthat in future interaction, thepolice in SD will handle the situation with any less suspicion, than before the OC memos came out.

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ConditionThree wrote:

I hope everyone understands why the 12031 (e) checks are only occuring when activists are alone or easily 'singled out'. The police are chosing to control the circumstances and environment under which they are conducting the search. It is important to note that they would not approach agroup of 3 or morewhere they would be outnumbered or could not readily contain the situation if one of the activists were to forcefully resist.

What this means is that SDPD feels obligated to do an (e) check if they control the encounter. It also means that if a group of three or more is going to be split up if the police are determined to conduct a check with superior numbers.

Not only did we learn some important information in this event, but SDPD got some practice in handling 'carry activists'. While it went a long way to bringing more people to be comfortable with excersizing the 2A, Im not certainthat in future interaction, thepolice in SD will handle the situation with any less suspicion, than before the OC memos came out.

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That is why we are only notifying the police for the next two outings or so and after that, our communication lines will be turned off, the idea being that we get a rotation of officers to these events to get them educated and then start the real burden of activism when their call centers are slammed and they are wasting resources by scrambling too and fro.

Want no calls? Change your policies and give us our permits!

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Very inspiring - I hope I can make it one day to one of your gatherings

The pics are also great ~

I wonder if there are enough San Diego OCers to support an internet cafe dedicated to it?

There's a cafe for sale in Clairemont near Mesa Community College for $30,000 ~

I wonder if there is an enough interest, I could help put something together and OCers in San Diego could have a home if it was a convenient location -

Anyone care to follow-up?

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TatankaGap wrote:

I wonder if there are enough San Diego OCers to support an internet cafe dedicated to it?

There's a cafe for sale in Clairemont near Mesa Community College for $30,000 ~

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Given that that's nearby, I may occasionally give it some cafe business, but likely not any internet business.