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Thread: Strange behaviour by ACPD Officer towards OCer, caught on film

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    http://bureaucrash.com/2009/01/25/co...-arlington-va/

    I would suggest watching the raw video first, just to prevent an overt bias to what transpires. It is certainly something unusual and disconcerting to me, but judge for yourself. The OCer in the video has had past encounters OCing with the ACPD before.

    [flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/yAsU7RivS_g&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]

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    He should have called the state police and told them he had just reported an illegally parked police car andthat a local off duty police officer that lived down the street had parked it there and he was now being stalked by that officer and need them to respond to the threat.
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    Should have called back about a suspicious person following them everywhere.

    Edit: great minds think alike?

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    That officer is CREEPY

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    Cop-Bashing?

    ETA after viewing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_aggressive

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    ok, I watched the entire video, and then went back and watched selected parts again.

    Was the officer illegally parked? Yes. But was there a reason? Sometimes, a police car may be parked at an intersection to passively enforce traffic laws, like stopping at stop signs or speeding. Perhaps there was drug activity at the corner and the officer parked the car there to ward off potential customers. We see the officer come from a house quite a distance from the parked car. If it was my cruiser, I'd have it parked in front of my house (to keep an eye on it) rather than halfway down the block. Sometimes the police do things that we may not as civilians understand, nor is it any of our business if its an ongoing investigation/attempt to prevent crime.

    The responding Lt. was very polite and cordial. He spoke to the citizen in a professional manner, and identified himself by name and with a business card. He even said that OC was fine when advised that the man was carrying.

    The second section of video appears that the OC'er was waiting for the off duty officer, in fact, standing in his path. The off duty officer was walking and talking on his phone when the OC'er engaged him in conversation. The off duty officer ended his phone conversation and carried on a polite conversation for quite a while with the man. I didnt hear any raised voices or profanity. After the conversation ended, the OC'er continued to run tape of the off duty officer walking around his own neighborhood.

    Aside from the OC'er being a bit of a stalker and borderline instigator (imo), what was the problem? And really, what does this have to do with OC or firearms?


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    ProShooter wrote:
    The second section of video appears that the OC'er was waiting for the off duty officer, in fact, standing in his path. The off duty officer was walking and talking on his phone when the OC'er engaged him in conversation. The off duty officer ended his phone conversation and carried on a polite conversation for quite a while with the man. I didnt hear any raised voices or profanity. After the conversation ended, the OC'er continued to run tape of the off duty officer walking around his own neighborhood.

    Aside from the OC'er being a bit of a stalker and borderline instigator (imo), what was the problem? And really, what does this have to do with OC or firearms?

    That's not what I saw at all. The cop was obviously following him around, you don't think that's strange at all? He reported a cop for bad behavior, then the cop is just wandering around the same path as him following him? That seems weird to me, if it was a person besides a cop following me like that, I would get the feeling they were following me for a specific reason, like to watch where my house was so they could rob me.

    I'm not saying what the cop was doing was the most egregious behavior ever, but it does seem strange. If you really see nothing odd about it I'm suprised.

    What does it have to do with OC? Well, Pete was OCing, and that seems like a good possibility for why the officer was following him around.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    The cop was off duty and parked by his apartment. If he did not live nearby and was on duty he would still be breaking the law. At least then he'd have an acceptable rational. He had no work related reason for parking there. He parked so far away because parking sucks there apparently which is why the bike took 5 minutes to find a small spot for it and why the cop said that he was confronted for taking legal spots. It's probably quicker for the officer to just park there than drive around looking for spots. Who's going to say anything....he's a cop for crying out loud! The best rationality given was that he parked there to save room for everyone else. I'm sure that is EXACTLY why he parked there. *sarcasm*

    I love cops but that officer was a JERK.

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    Regular Member crazydude6030's Avatar
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    richarcm wrote:
    The cop was off duty and parked by his apartment. If he did not live nearby and was on duty he would still be breaking the law. At least then he'd have an acceptable rational. He had no work related reason for parking there. He parked so far away because parking sucks there apparently which is why the bike took 5 minutes to find a small spot for it and why the cop said that he was confronted for taking legal spots. It's probably quicker for the officer to just park there than drive around looking for spots. Who's going to say anything....he's a cop for crying out loud! The best rationality given was that he parked there to save room for everyone else. I'm sure that is EXACTLY why he parked there. *sarcasm*

    I love cops but that officer was a JERK.
    I agree. My guess is because he was OC'ing he was a tad more watchful. Yeah, it was dumb to ask "arnt you going to give him a ticket?" That said though the cop who was in the wrong had it out for the caller. He body language and tone of voice was clearly more aggressive then a normal person would have been. I think the cop was trying to provoke the caller or at the very least make him uneasy.

    The cop kept saying this isn't south VA, like what the hell does that have to do with anything?

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    Perhaps there may have been a better way to address the illegally parked car. What what I gathered both people in the video seemed to have a chip on their shoulder. Being confrontational served no purpose. Most likely you did more harm than good.

    A quick example, I friend and I were riding together one day. The friends' spouse is an officer in the jurisdiction we were. A marked police car sped by us so fast we could barely get the number off the car. The driver appeared to be off-duty. The friend called their spouse and ended up speaking with the watch commander. After hearing our story the watch commander took action. I heard that the offending officer had hand cramps for six weeks.

    Pick and choose your battles. This one could have been better planned.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Just my opinion....everything can always be "better", "more perfect" or "better planned". I don't have any problem with what the guy did or how he handled it. The officer was the only party that I could see doing anything questionable.

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    ProShooter wrote:
    ok, I watched the entire video, and then went back and watched selected parts again.

    Was the officer illegally parked? Yes. But was there a reason?* Sometimes, a police car may be parked at an intersection to passively enforce traffic laws, like stopping at stop signs or speeding. Perhaps there was drug activity at the corner and the officer parked the car there to ward off potential customers. We see the officer come from a house quite a distance from the parked car. If it was my cruiser, I'd have it parked in front of my house (to keep an eye on it) rather than halfway down the block. Sometimes the police do things that we may not as civilians understand, nor is it any of our business if its an ongoing investigation/attempt to prevent crime.

    The responding Lt. was very polite and cordial. He spoke to the citizen in a professional manner, and identified himself by name and with a business card. He even said that OC was fine when advised that the man was carrying.

    The second section of video appears that the OC'er was waiting for the off duty officer, in fact, standing in his path. The off duty officer was walking and talking on his phone when the OC'er engaged him in conversation. The off duty officer ended his phone conversation and carried on a polite conversation for quite a while with the man. I didnt hear any raised voices or profanity. After the conversation ended, the OC'er continued to run tape of the off duty officer walking around his own neighborhood.

    Aside from the OC'er being a bit of a stalker and borderline instigator (imo), what was the problem?* And really, what does this have to do with OC or firearms?
    It seemed the officer was parked on his street, not trying to curb traffic violations, etc. He stated later that the OCer knew where he lived, so he obviously was coming out of his house, not on an active investigation. The corner could be overrun with drug trafficking, but somehow I doubt that.

    The responding officer was indeed polite and cordial, but if the illegally parked car was there only out of convenience, it should have been ticketed.

    How can you call the OCer a stalker? sure, he stuck around to see if anything would come of his complaint. I don't see that as stalking. And, the officer clearly was following him around. He didn't even try to hide that fact with his "it's a beautiful day" routine.

    Do you think off-duty officers (which he appeared to be, otherwise he wasted far too much time on the clock "observing" a law-abiding citizen) should get a pass when it comes to small violations such as this? I don't. If they know citizens are monitoring their actions, it may help to curb some of the "I AM the police" attitude that some officers have.
    (I just watched Lakeview Terrace [do not recommend it], sorry.)

    ETA: Sheesh, work gets in the way for a minute typing a reply and you guys point out all of what I had written.
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    Regular Member crazydude6030's Avatar
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    So what do we know about the aftermath of this?

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I can see where some people might say that the off duty cop followed the OC'er. I can also see where some might say that the OC'er was waiting, standing in the path of the off duty cop. By the officer's manner in which he was walking, it appeared to me that he was in full stride as if he was going to walk by, not walk up to the OC'er. Clearly, the OC'er engaged the officer in conversation, which would cause him to stop and talk.

    What's missing here is any video of the time between the officer moving the parked car and walking towards the OC'er. That would tell us who was following who. With the after video clipsshowing the officer walking around and the OC'er videoing him, I lean towards the idea that OC'er was following the cop's movements. It would be nice to see what transpired in between to be certain either way.
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    ProShooter wrote:
    And really, what does this have to do with OC or firearms?
    Did you really watch and listen to the whole video? Did you miss that long conversation Pete had with the LEO about open carry? Did you not discern the LEO's attitude about open carry, and how he thinks it might be okay in southern Virginia or western Virginia, but not in Arlington?

    Did we watch the same video, ProShooter? How can you possibly ask that question?

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    OK, that was just weird.

    The whole video seemed like you were looking for a confrontation with the police, while armed. You did your civic deed by calling in the car, but then you stuck around (perhaps to see if justice would be served?) and even called out at the motor cop, causing him to stop to see what the issue was. That ended peacefully, but then... while on what looked like private property away from a road or walkway path you encountered the officer. By your own admission, you did not live in the complex, but the officer did. You felt the officer was following you, but that doesn't make sense, especiallysince you are openly carrying and presumably tresspassing somewhere within the cinfines of the officers community grounds. If I was that officer I would think it very suspicious that a stranger (not a resident) is OC'ing a gun in my HOA.

    How would YOU react?

    I don't think it's too smart to be engaging in JimmyJustice style activism while openly carrying.

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    TexasNative wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    And really, what does this have to do with OC or firearms?
    Did you really watch and listen to the whole video? Did you miss that long conversation Pete had with the LEO about open carry? Did you not discern the LEO's attitude about open carry, and how he thinks it might be okay in southern Virginia or western Virginia, but not in Arlington?

    Did we watch the same video, ProShooter? How can you possibly ask that question?
    The cop picked on him for the only thing he could. He wanted to revenge his wrong

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    The only problem with that theory ProShooter, is the OCer was always about 100-200yds in front of the officer. It appears they were both on foot, so the OCer would have to continually determine where the officer was headed, and then run past to get in position. That sounds like an awful lot of work just to make it appear that the officer was following him.

    Since it cannot be determined from the tape, we have to make our best guess as to which occurred.

    I'd be willing to bet (based on the multiple "I'm just out for a walk" comments the officer gave that were clearly sarcastic, that the officer was the one following him around.
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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    I don't think it's too smart to be engaging in JimmyJustice style activism while openly carrying.
    Why would that even matter? Him carrying legally or not isn't the issue. The cop made it the issue. Pete said he lived nearby, I don't recall him saying where that was.

    I do agree that it was a bad call to stop the bike cop but, he didn't do anything wrong, the illegally parked cop did.

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    What I saw was someone stirring up trouble (the OC'er). A very polite and honest supervisor and an off duty cop who is irritated at being called on the carpet and video taped.

    Aside from what the off duty cop said about OC'ing and he should have kept his mouth shut, he was just being human.

    Sure the cop broke a parking law...so do I and I expect everyone else here at one time or the other. He didn't get a ticket but I'll bet he got an azz chewing.

    If the Oc'er had called the cops because I had parked in a no parking zone, and then taped me, I'd have shoved the camera up his backsides.

    Was there a REASON for that or did he just want to show how stupid some people can be?

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    bnkrazy wrote:
    It seemed the officer was parked on his street, not trying to curb traffic violations, etc. He stated later that the OCer knew where he lived, so he obviously was coming out of his house, not on an active investigation. The corner could be overrun with drug trafficking, but somehow I doubt that.
    I guess I draw my conclusion from personal experience. My street is a cut through from a main road to a school. 25mph is rarely adhered to. Stop signs are blown on a regular basis. On the rare occassions that I had a marked car to take home, sometimes I parked it in front of my house but once in a while, I'd park it further down towards the corner where it could be viewed by folks driving through the intersection, yet it was still in a place that I could keep an eye on the car. That's what I call "passive enforcement". Sometimes, you'll see a police car parked on a street in front of a bank, near a school, or in a median strip and the car is unoccupied. Heck, some departments even use mannequins. There's a local town that I've beento at 3 different times in thepast2 weeks and have seen a marked police car parked in the bank parking lot each time. Do you think that the officer is illegally parked on private property, or do you think that the police car is parked there to deter bank robberies? Someone could draw a conclusion either way.

    All I'm saying is that yes, the police car was parked illegally, but there may have been a greater good being served that we do not know about. Perhaps the officer felt that parking there was a deterrent to crime in his neighborhood, and the neighbors would be happier about that than a simple parking violation. We'll never know the real answer.

    As far as who was stalking who, I'd need to see the interim video to be certain either way.
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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    TexasNative wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    And really, what does this have to do with OC or firearms?
    Did you really watch and listen to the whole video? Did you miss that long conversation Pete had with the LEO about open carry? Did you not discern the LEO's attitude about open carry, and how he thinks it might be okay in southern Virginia or western Virginia, but not in Arlington?

    Did we watch the same video, ProShooter? How can you possibly ask that question?
    The conversation between 2 private citizens (the officer is off duty) is about OC and their opinions, sure, but the original issue of the illegally parked car didnt have anything to do with OC.
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    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    I think I've established myself as definitely not a cop basher, ProShooter, but I have to say that your response to this seems like you're bending over backwards, and then some, to search around to find some excuse for a cop breaking the law and getting away with it.

    And this is exactly why they shouldn't break the laws that they are paid to enforce, even when it supposedly serves the greater good. If a LEO doesn't respect the law, why should a private citizen? If a LEO gets a pass for breaking the law, why should the private citizen respect LEOs or the law?

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    TexasNative wrote:
    I think I've established myself as definitely not a cop basher, ProShooter, but I have to say that your response to this seems like you're bending over backwards, and then some, to search around to find some excuse for a cop breaking the law and getting away with it.

    And this is exactly why they shouldn't break the laws that they are paid to enforce, even when it supposedly serves the greater good. If a LEO doesn't respect the law, why should a private citizen? If a LEO gets a pass for breaking the law, why should the private citizen respect LEOs or the law?
    I clearly stated twice, that yes the car was parked illegally. I'm not denying that. I'm simply saying that perhaps there was a reason that we are unaware of. I think that my response was pretty "middle of the road". I never came out of the gate chastising anyone for cop-bashing. I can only draw from personal experience and say that I can think of reasons why it was done, if it was done for a criminal justice purpose. If the officer parked there just because he felt like parking illegally, then of course he should have been ticketed like anyone else. Without the officer stating his reason, we'll never really know the true answer. Not everything is as clear as it may appear to be on the face.
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    TexasNative wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    And really, what does this have to do with OC or firearms?
    Did you really watch and listen to the whole video? Did you miss that long conversation Pete had with the LEO about open carry? Did you not discern the LEO's attitude about open carry, and how he thinks it might be okay in southern Virginia or western Virginia, but not in Arlington?

    Did we watch the same video, ProShooter? How can you possibly ask that question?
    The conversation between 2 private citizens (the officer is off duty) is about OC and their opinions, sure, but the original issue of the illegally parked car didnt have anything to do with OC.
    You didn't see the part where Peter announced he was OCing to the responding Lt? To which the Lt had no issue, which is good. Its that OC later became the issue, which is bad.

    Watch this video with the maps, its clear what their movements were.
    [flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/4PDqIMvJXdY&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]

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