Strange behaviour by ACPD Officer towards OCer, caught on film

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bnkrazy wrote:

It seemed the officer was parked on his street, not trying to curb traffic violations, etc. He stated later that the OCer knew where he lived, so he obviously was coming out of his house, not on an active investigation. The corner could be overrun with drug trafficking, but somehow I doubt that.

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I guess I draw my conclusion from personal experience. My street is a cut through from a main road to a school. 25mph is rarely adhered to. Stop signs are blown on a regular basis. On the rare occassions that I had a marked car to take home, sometimes I parked it in front of my house but once in a while, I'd park it further down towards the corner where it could be viewed by folks driving through the intersection, yet it was still in a place that I could keep an eye on the car. That's what I call "passive enforcement". Sometimes, you'll see a police car parked on a street in front of a bank, near a school, or in a median strip and the car is unoccupied. Heck, some departments even use mannequins. There's a local town that I've beento at 3 different times in thepast2 weeks and have seen a marked police car parked in the bank parking lot each time. Do you think that the officer is illegally parked on private property, or do you think that the police car is parked there to deter bank robberies? Someone could draw a conclusion either way.

All I'm saying is that yes, the police car was parked illegally, but there may have been a greater good being served that we do not know about. Perhaps the officer felt that parking there was a deterrent to crime in his neighborhood, and the neighbors would be happier about that than a simple parking violation. We'll never know the real answer.

As far as who was stalking who, I'd need to see the interim video to be certain either way.

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TexasNative wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

And really, what does this have to do with OC or firearms?

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Did you really watch and listen to the whole video? Did you miss that long conversation Pete had with the LEO about open carry? Did you not discern the LEO's attitude about open carry, and how he thinks it might be okay in southern Virginia or western Virginia, but not in Arlington?

Did we watch the same video, ProShooter? How can you possibly ask that question?

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The conversation between 2 private citizens (the officer is off duty) is about OC and their opinions, sure, but the original issue of the illegally parked car didnt have anything to do with OC.

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I think I've established myself as definitely not a cop basher, ProShooter, but I have to say that your response to this seems like you're bending over backwards, and then some, to search around to find some excuse for a cop breaking the law and getting away with it.

And this is exactly why they shouldn't break the laws that they are paid to enforce, even when it supposedly serves the greater good. If a LEO doesn't respect the law, why should a private citizen? If a LEO gets a pass for breaking the law, why should the private citizen respect LEOs or the law?

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TexasNative wrote:

I think I've established myself as definitely not a cop basher, ProShooter, but I have to say that your response to this seems like you're bending over backwards, and then some, to search around to find some excuse for a cop breaking the law and getting away with it.

And this is exactly why they shouldn't break the laws that they are paid to enforce, even when it supposedly serves the greater good. If a LEO doesn't respect the law, why should a private citizen? If a LEO gets a pass for breaking the law, why should the private citizen respect LEOs or the law?

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I clearly stated twice, that yes the car was parked illegally. I'm not denying that. I'm simply saying that perhaps there was a reason that we are unaware of. I think that my response was pretty "middle of the road". I never came out of the gate chastising anyone for cop-bashing. I can only draw from personal experience and say that I can think of reasons why it was done, if it was done for a criminal justice purpose. If the officer parked there just because he felt like parking illegally, then of course he should have been ticketed like anyone else. Without the officer stating his reason, we'll never really know the true answer. Not everything is as clear as it may appear to be on the face.

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ProShooter wrote:

TexasNative wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

And really, what does this have to do with OC or firearms?

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Did you really watch and listen to the whole video? Did you miss that long conversation Pete had with the LEO about open carry? Did you not discern the LEO's attitude about open carry, and how he thinks it might be okay in southern Virginia or western Virginia, but not in Arlington?

Did we watch the same video, ProShooter? How can you possibly ask that question?

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The conversation between 2 private citizens (the officer is off duty) is about OC and their opinions, sure, but the original issue of the illegally parked car didnt have anything to do with OC.

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You didn't see the part where Peter announced he was OCing to the responding Lt? To which the Lt had no issue, which is good. Its that OC later became the issue, which is bad.

Watch this video with the maps, its clear what their movements were.
[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/4PDqIMvJXdY&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]

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ProShooter wrote:

Not everything is as clear as it may appear to be on the face.

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It's clear enough to the odd passer-by that LEOs can park in No Parking zones with no repercussions, but they'll get a ticket if they try it themselves.

Look, we're not going to convince each other. You have your position that they can be justified in breaking the law. I have my position that LEOs should hold themselves to a higher standard than that. I ain't budging, and I doubt you will, either.

So we agree to disagree, 'kay?

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Crap. Arlington, not Alexandria. Apologies.

http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/Police/citizens/forms/PoliceCitizensFormsMisconduct.aspx

Send:

http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/Police/citizens/forms/docs/complaint-eng.pdf

To:

Internal Affairs Section
Arlington County Police Department
1425 North Courthouse Road
Arlington, VA 22201

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TexasNative wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Not everything is as clear as it may appear to be on the face.

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It's clear enough to the odd passer-by that LEOs can park in No Parking zones with no repercussions, but they'll get a ticket if they try it themselves.

Look, we're not going to convince each other. You have your position that they can be justified in breaking the law. I have my position that LEOs should hold themselves to a higher standard than that. I ain't budging, and I doubt you will, either.

So we agree to disagree, 'kay?

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I think its similar to officers exceeding the speed limit enroute to a high priority call, or ambulances proceeding through red lights on the way to a hospital. All I'm saying is that there may have been a legitmate reason that we are not aware of, whether or not the officer was on or off duty. I can think of reasons why he may have done it and because I can think of a legitmate reason, I'm not going to condemn him until I know for certain that his reason was not legitmate in this instance. Should someone be ticketed for speeding if they are driving their pregnant wife to the hospital as she's in labor? Again, things are not always as clear as we'd like them to be....as I said earlier, if he parked illegally for the hell of it, then he should be ticketed like anyone else.

But I think that we can amicably agree to disagree.

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There is more to this than just taking a perk. There is a safety issue to be considered. Someone has determined that the area where the police car is parked needs to be clear so that people entering from the side street can see traffic.

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I know that in Virginia Beach it is illegal, sign or not, to park within 20' of an intersection. The end. They ticket in Chick's Beach consistently (especially on holidays like July 4) and I have even been ticketed in front of my own house (in another section of town).

Hold the officer to at least the same standard (or even higher, indeed) as a common citizen. Being an officer of the law does not grant one wholesale privilege to ignore local ordinances.

The only time any emergency vehicle can disregard traffic and parking ordinances is if they are flashing emergency lights. Even Code 2s cannot just blow through an intersection.

This is no different, and it appears that the officer was frustrated and embarrassed that he got caught. Finding convenient parking is not always easy, but suck it up and walk, don't park illegally and expect not to get called out just because you drive a squad car.

I regularly witness officers speeding or committing minor infractions that would get Joe Citizen a ticket. It doesn't make it right, and they should be reported.

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Can a citizen issue out a parking ticket in the name of the Court in Virginia?

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I wonder if a better way to go about it would be to get the car # and call in to ask if that particular car is on official business. If none, then proceed to file a complaint if you determine that the situation warrants one.

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wylde007 wrote:

I know that in Virginia Beach it is illegal, sign or not, to park within 20' of an intersection. The end. They ticket in Chick's Beach consistently (especially on holidays like July 4) and I have even been ticketed in front of my own house.

Hold the officer to at least the same standard (or even higher, indeed) as a common citizen. Being an officer of the law does not grant one wholesale privilege to ignore local ordinances.

The only time any emergency vehicle can disregard traffic and parking ordinances is if they are flashing emergency lights. Even Code 2s cannot just blow through an intersection.

This is no different, and it appears that the officer was frustrated and embarrassed that he got caught. Finding convenient parking is not always easy, but suck it up and walk, don't park illegally and expect not to get called out just because you drive a squad car.

I regularly witness officers speeding or committing minor infractions that would get Joe Citizen a ticket. It doesn't make it right, and they should be reported.

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The officer in question was held to the same standard as any other person parked illegally. He was told to move his car by the LT.

How many folks have been stopped for speeding and received a warning? I'd venture to say nearly everyone reading this post. Should you have received a ticket? Yes....rhetorical question...You broke the law....yet you did not receive a ticket. Reason? Officer discretion.

What you DON'T see is someone running up to the squad car with a camera saying 'Why didn't you issue a ticket to that speeder? You KNOW he was speeding, just look at your radar gun'.

Great explanation by OP of OC BTW.....

Agree with richard....LEO was creepy....I'm sure the asschewing was amplified once the Precinct sees the YT vid...ouch.

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In all my years of driving I have receive one warning. All of the rest of the times, even a couple that were blatantly lying (like the jerk who ticketed me for going through a yellow light: if it's red, it's red and I'm wrong, but it was yellow) and I got tickets. They're not in business to issue warnings.

Agreed that this officer was held to an equitable standard, but only when confronted by a senior officer. I doubt the incident would have played out quite as amicably if it had been Joe Citizen and offending officer alone w/out a supervisor on hand.

And the statement about "southern Virginia" still irks me. VA is VA.

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wylde007 wrote:

Agreed that this officer was held to an equitable standard, but only when confronted by a senior officer. I doubt the incident would have played out quite as amicably if it had been Joe Citizen and offending officer alone w/out a supervisor on hand.

And the statement about "southern Virginia" still irks me. VA is VA.

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Agree on all counts.......

Lt was quite professional....kudos to the the APD Lt....won't spec. on what 'might' have happened....:shock:

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well, i think both officers were professional. but, i also agree with pete. Civil disobedience is necessary in these times. and though, right now what he did seems like an asshole thing to do, it's what needs to be done.

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richarcm wrote:

That officer is CREEPY

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+1

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Xeni wrote:

Can a citizen issue out a parking ticket in the name of the Court in Virginia?

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I can see a Gomer Pyle type running around yelling, Citizens Arrest, Citizens Arrest, Citizens Arrest.

Technically any citizen can swear out a warrant on any crime committed in their presence. Then question then becomes who parked the car there. It could have been another officer than the one in the video. Since there was no video of the offense when actually being committed I doubt any warrant would be issued. You would have to be able to prove who parked the car. Other than an admission of guilt it would take a lot of letter writing.

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Who was following who?

Its one thing to call-in an illegally-parked govt vehicle.

And its fine to open carry.

I guess its fine to stand around and videotape the police response to the parking violation.

I just don't get the part where the citizen manages to confront the cop in front of the apartment building. Was that building the cop's residence?

Somebody needs to explain to me how the two managed to rendezvous after the initial parking incident.

I know I would be concerned if an armed individual followed me back to my residence after a traffic incident.

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razor_baghdad wrote:

The officer in question was held to the same standard as any other person parked illegally. He was told to move his car by the LT.

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The lieutenant said he would have ticketed a citizen's private car for parking there, but he was not going to ticket the cop.

How is that the same standard?