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Thread: Private property rights

  1. #1
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    http://www.redding.com/news/2009/jan...usts-those-in/
    Several hundred people are vowing to attend a candlelight vigil at Redding City Hall next month protesting a policy requiring residents to leave homes where power has been shut off for unpaid utility bills.

    Readers hatched the protest idea online in response to a Record Searchlight story Sunday about a spike in homes red-tagged after the Redding Electric Utility shut off their power.

    "So let me get this straight ... If you fall on hard times and can't pay your electric bill and get shut off ... they come and kick you to the street?"
    We're not even talking about a corporation chartered to serve the public here. These people are being kicked out of private residences simply because they chose to discontinue a service during hard times, all in the name of public safety?

    Granted this isn't an open carry topic per se but it does get to the core of individual rights. Do you suppose, for example, that those being evicted will be allowed to take their arms with them?


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    These folks that are walking away from their homes, are either very desparate for modern conveniences and have an invitation elsewhere, or they are sheep..

    I believe I'd have to make them burn me out..

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Can they even require you to have electrical power?

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    zoom6zoom wrote:
    Can they even require you to have electrical power?
    I think it's a state by state thing, but those that do I believe consider the dwelling uninhabitable if there is no power. I know at least here in WA, if you are renting a house/apartment/whatever, and the power goes out for whatever reason, that's considered an emergency as it is part of the vital services to the house, and your landlord is required to find you a different place to stay until the problem is fixed (assuming it's a problem with the house/apartment, and not because you failed to pay the bill).

    And beyond that, there have been many stories where people that simply wanted to live "off the grid", without power, running water, or otherwise, have been raided and forcefully removed from their land because the state thinks your dwelling is "unsuitable for human habitation". These people are also widely regarded as mentally unstable and usually end up involuntarily being committed to a mental ward. All because you would rather rough it in the woods than live in the city and pay for water and electricity. Guess that makes one crazy these days. Kinda like the sliding scale of what makes one a felon, hmm? Either way, it's government intrusion into your private life, like they've been doing for years, and will continue to do until people make it stop.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    compmanio365 wrote:
    ...SNIP
    And beyond that, there have been many stories where people that simply wanted to live "off the grid", without power, running water, or otherwise, have been raided and forcefully removed from their land because the state thinks your dwelling is "unsuitable for human habitation". These people are also widely regarded as mentally unstable and usually end up involuntarily being committed to a mental ward. All because you would rather rough it in the woods than live in the city and pay for water and electricity. Guess that makes one crazy these days. Kinda like the sliding scale of what makes one a felon, hmm? Either way, it's government intrusion into your private life, like they've been doing for years, and will continue to do until people make it stop.
    So you don't have very many Amish out there.
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    Apparently the original link no longer works, but here's more:

    http://www.redding.com/news/2009/jan...e/?partner=RSS


    A Redding attorney who was the city's code enforcement battering ram more than a decade ago is questioning the legality of red-tagging homes to force out residents whose utilities have been shut off.

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    Time to convince these folks to OPEN CARRY.

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    Well, what do expect from the Soviet SocialistRepublic of Kalyffornya? It's a Communist State, the US Constitution doesn't apply.

    If they tried that crap in Tn, somebody would get shot.

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    ne1 wrote:
    Do you suppose, for example, that those being evicted will be allowed to take their arms with them?
    No one else bit, so I guess I'll have to answer my own question. Of course they won't be allowed to take anything with them because, for the most part, Kalifornians have already allowed themselves to be disarmed. I prefer the Tennessee mindset.

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    5A(U.S. Constitution):
    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
    nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
    [line]
    I hate to break the bad news, but the 5th amendment portion regarding the "taking" of private property for the public use has LONG been lost. Many states and the SCOTUS have long been allowing the gub'mint to nibble away at private property rights "without just compensation". The adoption of Building/Zoning codes, etc., which take away property rights for the public good, are never accompanied by payments to property owners upon which the newly adopted laws infringe. I used to complain about it a lot in local public meetings regarding land use issues, but was pretty much laughed out of the room by both the governmental officials and the citizenry.

    See: http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/su...04-108.ZS.html

    Kelo v. New London, CN:is only the latest bad example of SCOTUS relegating 5th Amendment property rights to "irrelevent" status. I've pretty much given up on that one(the property rights portion of the 5A) and have now taken up the 2A. I'm a bit more optimistic on the 2A coming back to life. Due to my age, I might see some improvement on the 2A before I say "adios".

    Property rights are a "bundle" of rights... "How can you use your property? What structures are you allowed to build? What color can you paint it? Have you submitted your landscape plan for approval? You can't have your truck parked in the driveway." The restrictions on property use and zoning/planning restrictions are as numerous as the eons are long. These are all "infringements" on property rights and are a "taking"( of many sticks from the bundle) from the property owner for the common good - all without "just compensation " as required by the 5A. All that was required was just the vote of some elected officials, the stroke of a pen and ultimately enforced at the point of a gun(if needed).

    On a lark, go to the local city hall or Co. / township offices and ask to see the zoning code, fire code, building code, electrical code, tree ordinance, etc. etc. See what YOU can really do with your property. Of course, some places are worse than others, but in some jurisdictions, I have had immigrants from Iron Curtain countries complain that they had more property rights in their homeland than in their new homes.

    If the local building inspector says your home is "uninhabitable" and you MUST leave, he/she will probably win. Of course you can appeal the decision, but, in my experience, it is after-the-fact, and, you are almost, for sure, not going to win. I remember watching a video interview with the head of the Chicago Bldg. Dept. claiming that one can appeal any decision of any of their inspectors... then smiling as she said... "no one has ever won".

    This is what happens when we let our rights get chipped away. I am as guilty as many for letting it happen. Be very aware of INCREMENTALISM. It is the way of the tyrants. It has already worked on eliminating the property rights protections of the the 5A. Your private property rights have been taken from you in far more ways than you can even imagine.
    [line]
    What's that quote I see on this forum often, about "Safety being the tyrant's tool"?
    'Tis true. Don't just fear "Big Brother"(FED). Fear "Little Brother"(local governments) as well. Think gun confiscation during Katrina - That was local, not Federal.

    Every law, regulation, ruling, etc. from someone at any level of government is a "taking" of one of those sticks of your bundle of sticks of freedom. Fight against any and all 2A "infringements".

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    Some states have statutes that prohibit utility companies from cutting off services that provide heat for customers during winter months.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    ne1 wrote:
    ...for the most part, Kalifornians have already allowed themselves to be disarmed.
    Now you're believing and repeating the lies of the Brady Bunch. Nice work. :quirky

    There are lots of guns in California.

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    marshaul wrote:
    ne1 wrote:
    ...for the most part, Kalifornians have already allowed themselves to be disarmed.
    Now you're believing and repeating the lies of the Brady Bunch. Nice work. :quirky

    There are lots of guns in California.
    Unfortunately, many of the law abiding have given them up, resulting in a constant tipping of the scale in favor of the criminal element.

    Do the gang bangers give up their high capacity magazines? Do they register their "assault weapons"?

    Of course, we already know the truth that gun control doesn't work. I'm preaching to the choir.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    marshaul wrote:
    ne1 wrote:
    ...for the most part, Kalifornians have already allowed themselves to be disarmed.
    Now you're believing and repeating the lies of the Brady Bunch. Nice work. :quirky

    There are lots of guns in California.

    Marshaul is correct.

    Every police department issues firearms to its LEO's. The gangs are all very well armed. There are also many military bases in California that have arsenals of weapons standing by for issue and use. There are a number of National Guard armories as well.

    Oh ... Wait ... could he have meant weaponsin law abiding civilian hands that could be used during an emergency when civil order breaks down, and that might put civilians on an equal footing with the government? Oh yea, that might be different.
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    Lone Star Veteran Gator5713's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Some states have statutes that prohibit utility companies from cutting off services that provide heat for customers during winter months.
    This is what I was thinking... I remember something about this in Texas law, though it has been many years since it was an issue that I had to think about; but I believe that there used to be a paragraph on my elec bill about it, but then again, that was before deregulation of the energy industry, so that might have changed...

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    I don't remember if the report stated whether the city provided shelter for those that were put out of their homes or not. (It's really hard to open the links with my slow dial-up) I don't think the city does.

    I got to thinking about this and it began to smell like racketeering on the city's part. I mean, if being able to live in your own home is contigent on buying electric service from the city owned utility, isn't that extortion?

    Those folks in Reding need a shipment of tar and feathers.

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Oh, it gets much worse. The lunatic Obama has nominated for Energy Secretary (who thinks setting the price of gasoline at a $4.00 MINIMUM is a swell idea) wants to require "smart" electricity meters and thermostats. These devices would be controlable by the utility and/or the government to ensure that no one uses more energy than decreed necessary. And of course he is a big enthusiast for all-electric automobiles. So I guess you would have to file for an "energy permit" to charge up your ride, stating of course your use of the vehicle and reasons therefore. to be aproved or (mostly) denied by some Government officer sent to eat out your substance. And then I guess when the Feds cut yir power the local gummint could swoop in and take the house and send you to a shelter-cum-reeducation camp.

    This nutbar, "Chu" is his name, is of Korean extraction. So it's no surprise his scheme sounds like something Kim Jong-Il would cook up if he wasnt busy cooking up donkeys (or "heavenly cow" as the PRK officially calls Dear Leader's fave dish).

    HEY!! Maybe we could send the donkeys in the Obama gang over to old Kim with some recipes?

  18. #18
    kittyhawk63
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4armed Architect
    Property rights are a "bundle" of rights... "How can you use your property? What structures are you allowed to build? What color can you paint it? Have you submitted your landscape plan for approval? You can't have your truck parked in the driveway." The restrictions on property use and zoning/planning restrictions are as numerous as the eons are long. These are all "infringements" on property rights and are a "taking"( of many sticks from the bundle) from the property owner for the common good - all without "just compensation " as required by the 5A. All that was required was just the vote of some elected officials, the stroke of a pen and ultimately enforced at the point of a gun(if needed).
    May I say, for a far more accurate description of how levels of government view our property rights, it is no longer property "rights," it is property limitations.
    Last edited by kittyhawk63; 10-22-2010 at 04:52 PM.

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