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Thread: Guy at wrong house get's shot.

  1. #1
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    I never heard the Male ordering the guy to leave, or anything else.

    Somehow, I don't believe I would would sit in a chair in the living room, while someone is breaking in, without saying a word. Then as soon as they got in, BAM I shoot them ?

    I think yelling/commanding the BG to retreat or die, would at LEAST be sufficient.

    Your Say ?

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3d7_1233157933

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    If it's 3AM and I hear someone breaking the glass to get into my house. I'm not going to make them ID, or ID myself.

    If they're in enough fear for their lives that someone calls 911, it's justified.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Uh, the audio sounded pretty clear that the lady was freaking out and it should be clear to anyone who was making an honest mistake that this was NOT their house. Hell, if I accidentally went to the wrong house (never has happened, and probably never will....how do you do that?), once I tried to open the door and my key didn't work, I'd probably get it, no? Breaking the glass to get in the house removes any and all possibility that this was an "accident", and makes it quite obvious this guy wanted to get in to steal something or cause harm to the people inside. Good for the guy doing what had to be done to defend himself and his SO.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    If it's 3AM and I hear someone breaking the glass to get into my house. I'm not going to make them ID, or ID myself.

    If they're in enough fear for their lives that someone calls 911, it's justified.
    I'm not questioning if it's justified.

    I'm questioning if pulling the whole, "I'll let them do it then Shoot them" mentality is the proper way.

    See ?

    That goes against the OC mentality of DETERANT, doesn't it? Why let someone do something first(CC), when you shold be commanding them to STAY AWAY.(OC) Like your Weapon does when You OC. It cleary says, YOU DON'T WANT NONE OF THIS !



  5. #5
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Break in my house... you get shot. I'm not gonna hold a conversation.

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    Seems like this worked out as it should. "No charges were filed".

    Moral of the story, don't break into someones house!

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Break in my house... you get shot. I'm not gonna hold a conversation.

    Wow, Is everyone going to avoid the question?

    Yes if you break in my house you will get shot. I understand this philosophy.

    BUT

    What if you were awake, and the person is TRYING to break in ? Are you going to just wait for them to finish breaking in, and then shoot? OR are you going to Verbally say anything, then once they are in you shoot ?

    I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this question ?




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    I'm not sure what I would do. However, I rather doubt that I would try to warnsomebody while they were trying to break in. The minute they start trying to break in, they have forfeited their right to leave my premises unhurt. Mind you, I rather enjoy giving people unpleasant surprises when they do something that they shouldn't. To me, I think that the bigger question would bewhether I would wait until they finished breaking in, or shoot through the door or window before that happened.

  9. #9
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    Dustin wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Break in my house... you get shot.* I'm not gonna hold a conversation.

    Wow, Is everyone going to avoid the question?

    Yes if you break in my house you will get shot. I understand this philosophy.

    BUT

    What if you were awake, and the person is TRYING to break in ? Are you going to just wait for them to finish breaking in, and then shoot? OR are you going to Verbally say anything, then once they are in you shoot ?

    I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this question ?

    Let me put it this way. Criminals are stupid...until they aren't. Lets just say this guy who broke in WAS a bad guy and happend to have a level head on his shoulders. He busts in the glass and the homeowner says:

    Home: Stop, who are you, this is my house?
    BG slurs: whaadamean yur huzz? this is me house! (guy falls down)
    Home: (takes the guy for a drunk and tries to help him while his girlfriend tells 911 its a drunk whose lost)All right buddy, where are you supposed to be..if you give me your address then mayb--- (BANG BANG BANG)
    (Bad guy, faking being drunk and counting on nice peoples naivete rolls over, puts three slugs into the guy, goes over and rapes the girlfriend, strangles her to death, takes a quick look around the house for some cash and jewels and then beats a hasty retreat before the cops show up)

    Now, the moral of this story...don't get black out drunk like a ******* and break into the wrong persons house or else you'll get shot and its really your own damn fault.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Dustin wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Break in my house... you get shot. I'm not gonna hold a conversation.

    Wow, Is everyone going to avoid the question?

    Yes if you break in my house you will get shot. I understand this philosophy.

    BUT

    What if you were awake, and the person is TRYING to break in ? Are you going to just wait for them to finish breaking in, and then shoot? OR are you going to Verbally say anything, then once they are in you shoot ?

    I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this question ?


    If possible... I will inform 911 op of the situation... and that I have a gun. If the perp continues on this break-in... I will remain within' the dwelling until either the LEO's show up... or the perp gets in. At which point it's showtime.I'm not gonna give away my pos to somebody intent on comin' in. I will assume they are armed. I will assume the worst. Any conversation will be swift and of a mechanical / explosive nature. i.e. I pull the bang switch.

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    As the story goes, he was out partying and was dropped off at the wrong house by his friends. He actually lived a block over in an almost identical house.
    Regardless, drunk idiot trying to break into a house with a woman screaming? See ya later, butthead!!! BLAM!!!
    Personal Responsibility. Plain and simple.

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    Dustin wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Break in my house... you get shot. I'm not gonna hold a conversation.
    Wow, Is everyone going to avoid the question?

    Yes if you break in my house you will get shot. I understand this philosophy.

    BUT

    What if you were awake, and the person is TRYING to break in ? Are you going to just wait for them to finish breaking in, and then shoot? OR are you going to Verbally say anything, then once they are in you shoot ?

    I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this question ?
    Long story made short.

    The homeowner wasn't prosecuted this time; but he could have easily been charged, sent to the grand jury and indicted. Not as a matter of law, but by abusive LE and prosecutor. How many times have we seen the law bent or twisted to prosecute someone? Against forum members.

    Once you pull the trigger, you ARE in legal jeopardy. Even if you are aquitted or win the lawsuit from the survivors, its going tocostpotentially tens of thousands of dollars in legal defense fees.

    Why notavoid that byalerting the individual that the home is occupied and if needed that the occupant is armed (when it is tactically sound to do these things)? It would also avoid tragedies such as this. This is my plan.

    I intend to do everything possible to avoid having to shoot. Its just not worth the legal risk or the chance ofharming a mistaken innocent.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen said:
    "Why not*avoid that by*alerting the individual that the home is occupied and if needed that the occupant is armed (when it is tactically sound to do these things)?* It would also avoid tragedies such as this.* This is my plan."

    I totally agree, especially with the tactically sound part. That being the priority of this thought.

    However it is impossible to tell what exactly happened from this recording. He may have said stop, get out, yada yada yada but the girl was to far away for the recording to get it or any of a million other possibilities.

    I think what we need to take away from this is, know your state laws regarding use of force and that crap where if you can get away you have to and things of that nature. In this case the "make my day" law. Think ahead of some possible scenarios, you can't imagine every one but it will give you a jumping off point when it actually happens. Above all else, defend yourself when necessary.

  14. #14
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    Read and then make your opinions.

    http://www.gazette.com/articles/char...led_house.html

    Fatal shooting ruled covered by state ‘Make My Day’ law
    Comments 85 | Recommend 10



    January 27, 2009 - 10:55 AM
    LANCE BENZEL
    THE GAZETTE

    Prosecutors have cleared a Colorado Springs man in the Dec. 28 fatal shooting of a local golf pro who was drunkenly trying to break into the man's home - apparently believing he was locked out of his own apartment.

    James Parsons of 3212 Virginia Ave. will not be charged because his actions were protected under Colorado's "Make My Day" law, which holds that "citizens of Colorado have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes," the 4th Judicial District Attorney's Office said in a statement.

    The law applies when intruders illegally enter someone's dwelling with the intent to commit a crime or harm someone.

    Twenty-two-year-old Sean Kennedy - drunk and shouting obscenities - had broken out a window in the back door and was reaching inside to unlock it, giving Parsons the "reasonable belief" that he and his girlfriend were in danger, prosecutors said.

    Two dogs inside barked persistently and the couple shouted for Kennedy to leave in an ordeal lasting more than four minutes, all of which contributed to Parsons' sense of mounting danger, prosecutors said.

    "A reasonable person in those circumstances would have believed that (Kennedy) was going to do a crime against them or property," said newly elected District Attorney Dan May, who oversaw the review of the shooting upon taking office Jan. 13.

    May said it is well-established under case law that breaking a window and reaching inside constitutes breaking and entering.

    "That's not unique to Colorado," he said.

    The shooting - which the police branded a tragic mistake - happened just before 10 p.m.

    Kennedy had been drinking at a local golf course and his blood-alcohol level of 0.26 was more than three times the legal limit of 0.08 for driving in Colorado when he pulled up outside Parsons' house in his pickup. Friends and family members believe he thought he had arrived at his own home, which he shared with roommates at 3212 N. Institute St., one block to the west at the same house number.

    Parsons and his girlfriend saw Kennedy get out and approach the front door. He began shouting and pounding on the door before going around back.

    Parsons' girlfriend, who identified herself only as Betsy, detailed Kennedy's attempts to get inside during a frantic 911 call asking for help. Before the shooting, she cried: "Oh My God, he's coming in the back door," and then, "Are they on their way because - oh my God, he broke in the glass!"

    The first shot was fired at 4 minutes, 22 seconds into the 911 call, followed by several more.

    "Get the ambulance! I shot him," Parsons shouted in the background. "He broke his arm in the window and he was coming in the house!"

    May said that Parsons fired three shots from his .38 Special, although the audio recording of the shooting appears to capture four gunshots. Two bullets went through Kennedy's arm and into his torso, May said.

    Investigators determined that Kennedy forced open a screen door and then smashed one of four window panes in the storm door and was reaching to unlock the deadbolt.

    May said that evidence matched up with "spontaneous statements" that Parsons and his girlfriend made to a 911 call-taker: Glass was found inside the home, indicating the window was broken from the outside, and there was blood on the screen door.

    The bullets passed through the broken window, May said.

    "The evidence from the dispatch tape and from investigative interviews indicated that they were both terrified during this incident and were traumatized by these events," May's office said in a written release.

    Kennedy worked at Patty Jewett and Kissing Camels golf courses after graduating from Coronado High School in 2004. He did not have a criminal record, and his parents, Grant and Lisa Kennedy, said that police detectives acknowledged that Kennedy believed he was entering his own home.

    The call-taker urged Parsons' girlfriend to stay away from the door while officers were on their way. According to police call logs, the first officer was dispatched at 9:51 p.m. and arrived around the time of the shooting, at 9:54 p.m. The second officer arrived one minute later, at 9:55 p.m.

    Parsons did not respond to requests for an interview, and Kennedy's parents did not return a phone message as of Tuesday evening.

  15. #15
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    Evil Ernie quoted:
    SNIP Twenty-two-year-old Sean Kennedy - drunk and shouting obscenities - had broken out a window in the back door and was reaching inside to unlock it, giving Parsons the "reasonable belief" that he and his girlfriend were in danger, prosecutors said.

    Two dogs inside barked persistently and the couple shouted for Kennedy to leave in an ordeal lasting more than four minutes, all of which contributed to Parsons' sense of mounting danger, prosecutors said.
    This would do it as far as concluding there was a real danger.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    RULES FOR A GUN, KNIFE, BASEBALL BAT OR FIST FIGHT[size=

    ]
    [/size]1. Forget about knives, bats and fists. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring four times the ammunition you think you could ever need.[size=

    ]
    [/size]2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammunition is cheap - life is expensive. If you shoot inside, buckshot is your friend. A new wall is cheap - funerals are expensive.[size=

    ]
    [/size]3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.[size= ][/size]
    [size=][/size]

    [size=

    ]
    [/size]
    4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.[size=

    ]
    [/size]5. Move away from your attacker and go to cover. Distance is your friend. (Bulletproof cover and diagonal or lateral movement are preferred.)[size=

    ]
    [/size]6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a semi or full-automatic long gun and a friend with a long gun.[size=

    ]
    [/size]7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.[size=

    ]
    [/size]8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running. Yell "Fire!" Why "Fire"? Cops will come with the Fire Department, sirens often scare off the bad guys, or at least cause then to lose concentration and will.... And who is going to summon help if you yell "Intruder," "Glock" or " Winchester ?"[size=

    ]
    [/size]9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.[size=

    ]
    [/size]10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.[size=

    ]
    [/size]11. Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.[size=

    ]
    [/size]12. Have a plan.[size=

    ]
    [/size]13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work. "No battle plan ever survives 10 seconds past first contact with an enemy."[size=

    ]
    [/size]14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible, but remember, sheetrock walls and the like stop nothing but your pulse when bullets tear through them.[size=

    ]
    [/size]15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.[size=

    ]
    [/size]16. Don't drop your guard.[size=

    ]
    [/size]17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees. Practice reloading one-handed and off-hand shooting. That's how you live if hit in your "good" side.[size=

    ]
    [/size]18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. Smiles, frowns and other facial expressions don't (In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.)[size=

    ]
    [/size]19. Decide NOW to always be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.[size=

    ]
    [/size]20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.[size=

    ]
    [/size]21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet if necessary, because they may want to kill you.[size=

    ]
    [/size]22. Be courteous to everyone, overly friendly to no one.[size=

    ]
    [/size]23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.[size=

    ]
    [/size]24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than "4".[size=

    ]
    [/size]25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw you gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later.[size=

    ]
    [/size]26. Practice shooting in the dark, with someone shouting at you, when out of breath, etc.[size=

    ]
    [/size]27. Regardless of whether justified or not, you will feel sad about killing another human being. It is better to be sad than to be room temperature.[size=

    ]
    [/size]28. The only thing you EVER say afterwards is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please speak with my attorney."[size= ][/size]
    [size=][/size]

    [size=

    ]
    [/size]
    Finally, Drill Sergeant Frick's Rules For Un-armed Combat.[size=

    ]
    [/size]1: Never be unarmed.[size=

    ]
    [/size]2: If you have your hands, your feet, your mind and your Spirit as an American Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine or Coastie, you are never unarmed.[size=

    ]
    [/size]3. I would add "Bringing a Good Jewish Girl" wouldn't hurt either![size= ][/size]
    [size=][/size]

    [size=

    ][/size]

  17. #17
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    While you're running all the 'what if' legalities thru your head... you may get killed.

    "Ya gonna pull them pistols or whistle Dixie?" 'Snooze ya lose' as the sayin' goes.

  18. #18
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    While you're running all the 'what if' legalities thru your head... you may get killed.

    "Ya gonna pull them pistols or whistle Dixie?" 'Snooze ya lose' as the sayin' goes.
    That's too cocky of an attitude for me to have.

    A 22 yr old kid who was drunk got shot to death for breaking inwhat he thought was hisown house. I'm glad the shooter was not charged, but I alsowish the outcome would have been different as I think it could have.That's bad news no matter how you write it.

    Citizen wrote:


    Why notavoid that byalerting the individual that the home is occupied and if needed that the occupant is armed (when it is tactically sound to do these things)? It would also avoid tragedies such as this. This is my plan.

    I intend to do everything possible to avoid having to shoot. Its just not worth the legal risk or the chance ofharming a mistaken innocent.


    Exactly my point.

    You better believe I would have had my handgun ready, but after looking thru the windowand seeing a youngish, drunk, white kid trying to break in, I might would have tried something else before I decided to KILL HIM. But hey if they were in fear of their life, then so be it. Around my stopming ground, I'm not so sure I would have been this aggressive. The shooter was indeed close enough to stick the gun thru the ONE broken pane of glass in the window and pull the trigger. I'd say he was close enough to also see this kid face to face.

    How many DRUNK BURGLARS do you hear of? I bet statisticaly, that most home invasions are done by those who are sober.

    But like I said, I'm glad the shooter was not charged, He successfully defended himself and his household. But he did kill someone who was not actually a Criminal, and from the background, didn't sound like he'd ever planned to be a criminal either.

    Sad all the way around ....







  19. #19
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    just putting my 2 cents as I would have tried to inform the Bg that I am armed and to stop after I dialed 911 and positioned my wife and self in a secure place, if he then continued and was approaching our are then I woul defend us.

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    bradco wrote:
    just putting my 2 cents as I would have tried to inform the Bg that I am armed and to stop after I dialed 911 and positioned my wife and self in a secure place, if he then continued and was approaching our are then I woul defend us.
    Yep, b/c not all states would allow such a shooting.

    In LA, i'm pretty sure that the BG had better be IN YOUR HOUSE, before you shoot.

    Not outside breaking windows.

  21. #21
    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    I would verbally warn an individual who was attempting to break in, but as soon as he breaches my home, all bets are off. I've got a wife, little boy, and little girl to take care of, I'm not f*cking around with any of the Hollywood crap.

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    I've gotta say I more than likely wouldn't go to the door in the broad daylight if someone was trying to force their way into my house and try to chat with them just to let them know they were at the wrong house. Yelling it a time or two from the top of the stairs might do some good but if it doesn't and the subject still insists on getting into my home, I'll empty the magazine without saying another word. If alone then I would try to dial 911 during the whole foray and let them know what's going on but sure as hell, they won't be there in time to stop the idiot!

    When I was married I had a guy come to the door of the apt. I was living in. I told my wife to stay in the bedroom with my pistol and I went to the door with my shotgun. I told the nice man knocking at my door at 0130 in the AM that he had no business here and needed to leave right away. He insisted on coming in and I told him it more than likely wasn't a good idea since I was armed and he had no reason to be there! I'm here to tell ya', the sound of a Mossberg slide being worked to chamber a shotshell is a very reassuring sound! he didn't like it as much as I did. Suffice it to say, he was arrested and I was able to sleep that night! Had he broke my door down, I'd have shot him.

    I guess that kinda' condradicts what I said in the first paragraph, I did what I said I wouldn't do but I learned my lesson. The more distance you have between you and the potential threat, the better off you are! I was in fear for the life of my wife and son. Now the ex-wife can fend for herself but I have two beautiful boys to worry about and I'll defend them to the death!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

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    Dustin wrote:
    ...SNIP
    but after looking thru the windowand seeing a youngish, drunk, white kid trying to break in, I might would have tried something else before I decided to KILL HIM.
    SNIP...
    While I may not actually want to know the answer, why does it matter what color the guy is in your example?

    It is fine to be ...um... "polite" until you see the elephant. Then it is time to get seriously social.

    Maybe you should go to the door and tap him on the brain bucket with a bat, perhaps you yell. But in the end, when the glass breaks you have only one decision to make and that is "Will I be a victim tonight".

    After the incident you will find out a lot about the person who died that you might not have known before you fired. Ask your family who they would rather be reading about.

    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
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    I'm sorry to say this, but if I'm sitting there and the bad guy is breaking into my house by busting out my back door, I'm going to go 2 center mass and 1 in the head as fast as that cylinder can spin. I say spin because the weapon in my desk is a Dan Wesson .357 loaded with silver tipped hollow points. You know...in case he's a werewolf.



    Seriously though, if someone threatens my home, I'm not going to give my position away by screaming. I'll call the police, say "Someone is breaking into my home, send police, I fear for my family" and lay the phone down and deal with the intruder in whatever manner I need to.

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    forever_frost wrote:
    Seriously though, if someone threatens my home, I'm not going to give my position away by screaming. I'll call the police, say "Someone is breaking into my home, send police, I fear for my family" and lay the phone down and deal with the intruder in whatever manner I need to.
    Great idea! I actually like the idea of keeping an open line like the caller in this scenario did and like Mr. frost mentioned here, that way at least there's a recording of the situation and the events that took place! Kind of a 'CYA' situation!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

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