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Thread: mental health facility

  1. #1
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    Does spending time at a mental health institution by requirement of a court or by voluntary admittance disqualify you for gun ownership or carrying?

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    thorsmitersaw wrote:
    Does spending time at a mental health institution by requirement of a court or by voluntary admittance disqualify you for gun ownership or carrying?
    That largely depends on what state you live in. I'd consult local laws.

    In Michigan, if you have spent time in the past 7 years you cannot acquire a concealed carry permit, possibly a permit to purchase as well. I'm not versed in this section of the law as it doesn't apply to me or my kin.

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    In Pa,

    Involuntary appointment to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under section 302,303, or 304 under the provisions of the act of July 9, 1976,
    (P.L. 817, No. 143), Known as the Mental Health Procedures Act. - Will Disqualify
    a person from legally obtaining a Handgun, or LTCF in Pennsylvania.


    ~~Springfield

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    Springfield45 wrote:
    In Pa,

    Involuntary appointment to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under section 302,303, or 304 under the provisions of the act of July 9, 1976,
    (P.L. 817, No. 143),* Known as the Mental Health Procedures Act. -* Will Disqualify
    a person from legally obtaining a Handgun, or LTCF in Pennsylvania.


    ~~Springfield
    forever?

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    Forever ...... I'm not sure if a court "expungement" could help with that or not....

    But yes, otherwise, Forever. However, IANAL.



    Edited for Spelling.
    ~~Springfield

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    Springfield45 wrote:
    Forever ......** I'm not sure if a court "expungement" could help with that or not....

    But yes, otherwise, Forever.*** However, IANAL.



    Edited for Spelling.
    ~~Springfield
    frickin lame

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    Indeed ....


    ~~Springfield

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    thorsmitersaw wrote:
    Springfield45 wrote:
    Forever ...... I'm not sure if a court "expungement" could help with that or not....

    But yes, otherwise, Forever. However, IANAL.

    Edited for Spelling.
    ~~Springfield
    frickin lame
    Frickin' proof of the utter failure of pschiatry and psychology, too.

    The government demonstratesit knows and understands this by the sort of law being discussed here.

    Remember that the next time some legislator wants to use some sort of mental health screening or something in relation to guns. Or appropriate a few zillion for mental health research, programs, treat veterans, etc.

    These quacks can't cure mental illness.They repeatedlyprove they don't know beans about mental illness, except to make labels.

    If they knew and understoodmental illness, they would be able to cure it wouldn't they? If they cured people, you'd check in, get cured, check out, and thenget your rights almost automatically restored, wouldn't you?

    (PS: Fair warning to argue-ers. I'm going to leave something out, something very, very obvious, to shoot back with in case anybody wants to argue with me. Look for it or risk embarrassment.)
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Frickin' proof of the utter failure of pschiatry and psychology, too.

    The government demonstratesit knows and understands this by the sort of law being discussed here.

    Remember that the next time some legislator wants to use some sort of mental health screening or something in relation to guns. Or appropriate a few zillion for mental health research, programs, treat veterans, etc.

    These quacks can't cure mental illness.They repeatedlyprove they don't know beans about mental illness, except to make labels.

    If they knew and understoodmental illness, they would be able to cure it wouldn't they? If they cured people, you'd check in, get cured, check out, and thenget your rights almost automatically restored, wouldn't you?

    (PS: Fair warning to argue-ers. I'm going to leave something out, something very, very obvious, to shoot back with in case anybody wants to argue with me. Look for it or risk embarrassment.)


    Keep up the good work showing exactly how little you know and understand about the human mind.

    But that is fine as without a doubt you have spent at lest 8-10 years of schooling studying and learning about the human mind and dealing with people who have mental illnesses.

    Anybody who purchases a firearm of any kind and fills out the 4473 must answer with the truth and if you lie on the 4473 it is a federal offence that can land you in the federal prison system for 5 years mandatory.

    Anybody committed to a mental instution willingly or un willingly can not own or posess firearms legally.

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    Mjolnir wrote:
    Frickin' proof of the utter failure of pschiatry and psychology, too.

    The government demonstratesit knows and understands this by the sort of law being discussed here.

    Remember that the next time some legislator wants to use some sort of mental health screening or something in relation to guns. Or appropriate a few zillion for mental health research, programs, treat veterans, etc.

    These quacks can't cure mental illness.They repeatedlyprove they don't know beans about mental illness, except to make labels.

    If they knew and understoodmental illness, they would be able to cure it wouldn't they? If they cured people, you'd check in, get cured, check out, and thenget your rights almost automatically restored, wouldn't you?

    (PS: Fair warning to argue-ers. I'm going to leave something out, something very, very obvious, to shoot back with in case anybody wants to argue with me. Look for it or risk embarrassment.)


    Keep up the good work showing exactly how little you know and understand about the human mind.

    But that is fine as without a doubt you have spent at lest 8-10 years of schooling studying and learning about the human mind and dealing with people who have mental illnesses.

    Anybody who purchases a firearm of any kind and fills out the 4473 must answer with the truth and if you lie on the 4473 it is a federal offence that can land you in the federal prison system for 5 years mandatory.

    Anybody committed to a mental instution willingly or un willingly can not own or posess firearms legally.

    Amendment II

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the rightof the PEOPLE to keep and BEAR ARMS, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. U.S. CONSTIUTION

    BILL OF RIGHTS
    Denying Americans citizens the right to bear arms based of there mental status is like denying American citizens the right to freedom of speech or press, because you don't like what they have to say, or what comes out there mouth, or what they post in a magazine might offend you. I guess you have some what of a point there Mjolnir, but then the point all together gets trumped by our beautiful Bill Of Rights.

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    http://www.military.com/veterans-rep...ion?ESRC=vr.nl

    Thank goodness there's good people and good veteran organizations out there protecting the people who serve there country. Check the link above.


    http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter103.htm

    And this one above has really good stuff in it if you read starting about half way down and read the entire article you'll be very impressed on what this article has to do with exactly and the the complete common sense it displays, hell if you have time read the entire article.

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    The term does not include a

    person in a mental institution for observation or a voluntary

    admission to a mental institution.
    The above quote comes from the link I'm listing right below this, you can read it for yourself halfway down the page under, it looks like the ATF is the one entering the information under the area of mental heath institutions. Ok here's the link


    It seems it was last update August 25th of 1998

    You guys let me know if you've found any other useful pro-info on this subject, will ya, I hope the information/research I've provided will help out some.

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    Denying Americans citizens the right to bear arms based of there mental status is like denying American citizens the right to freedom of speech or press, because you don't like what they have to say, or what comes out there mouth, or what they post in a magazine might offend you. I guess you have some what of a point there Mjolnir, but then the point all together gets trumped by our beautiful Bill Of Rights

    Obviously you have never been around mentally ill people and have no concept of what a broken mind can and is capable of.

    Bi-polar off meds and manic is ugly, but not like a pissed off boarderline person or somebody with PTSD back from the war thinking they are still there.

    Till you see it up close and in person you can spout all the crap you want. However, after seeing it and dealing with it you will realize that some people are not stable enough to have firearms and best of all, you would never allow them into your home to live with you.



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    Mjolnir wrote:
    Denying Americans citizens the right to bear arms based of there mental status is like denying American citizens the right to freedom of speech or press, because you don't like what they have to say, or what comes out there mouth, or what they post in a magazine might offend you. I guess you have some what of a point there Mjolnir, but then the point all together gets trumped by our beautiful Bill Of Rights

    Obviously you have never been around mentally ill people and have no concept of what a broken mind can and is capable of.

    Bi-polar off meds and manic is ugly, but not like a pissed off boarderline person or somebody with PTSD back from the war thinking they are still there.

    Till you see it up close and in person you can spout all the crap you want. However, after seeing it and dealing with it you will realize that some people are not stable enough to have firearms and best of all, you would never allow them into your home to live with you.

    If these people are so unstable that they can't be trusted with a firearm, why are they trusted to live independently? Also, if not all people who are committed are that unstable, isn't it unfair for them all to be lumped together?

    Also, some people want to restrict non-committed people for mental problems. Won't this merely prevent many people from seeking treatment?

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    Im not sure how this applies elsewhere. My brother spent 12 hours ina MHI, and he has his CPL and numerous Hand and long guns.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

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    Mjolnir wrote:
    Denying Americans citizens the right to bear arms based of there mental status is like denying American citizens the right to freedom of speech or press, because you don't like what they have to say, or what comes out there mouth, or what they post in a magazine might offend you. I guess you have some what of a point there Mjolnir, but then the point all together gets trumped by our beautiful Bill Of Rights

    Obviously you have never been around mentally ill people and have no concept of what a broken mind can and is capable of.

    Bi-polar off meds and manic is ugly, but not like a pissed off boarderline person or somebody with PTSD back from the war thinking they are still there.

    Till you see it up close and in person you can spout all the crap you want. However, after seeing it and dealing with it you will realize that some people are not stable enough to have firearms and best of all, you would never allow them into your home to live with you.


    I'm not talking about letting these American citizens with a mental problem live with me, even though I did live with a bipolar person for awhile while at times he forgot to take his meds. So there a little uncomfortable to be around, they shouldn't ever be denied the right to bear arms because of that.

    Now I'm about to contradict myself in away, I don't believe mentally insane or crazy people who have been locked up in a asylum , padded rooms , straight jackets and all should ever own a firearm unless they was put there wrongfully by someone who knew a judge and then later on he/she was evaluated and considered fine and was wrongfully put in that place. But I'm still a very strong advocate, hence my username Mr.Advocate, and yes I do fight for peoples rights, regardless if others fill strongly against it. I don't think bipolar ,ADD,depression,ptsd,and a rather large list of other mental illnesses should follow under being banned from firearms, seriously! do you honestly fill those people so long as there on there meds and seeing a doctor on a regular basis should be denied the right to protect themselves and there families.


    P.S. I don't just spout off about this kinda stuff either Mr.Mjolnir, I research it, and I research it alot, I look at both sides, the reasoning's and most of all the American citizens rights. Oh yeah, one more thing no one on this link is going to use a few mentally ill people going off the deep end to justify banning mentally ill citizens of this country the right to bear arms. I've heard alot of so called normally people, who legally pass all NIC and ATF checks and are fine and one day they just lost it and just start killing people also, so should we just start spending millions upon millions of dollars on conducting extremely obsessive mental evaluations on everyone who buys firearms, just for assumptions that one day a male/female is one day going to loose it. The answer to that is clearly no, lets try to use a little commonsense here. We are all human beings here and no one is perfect, you just live your life the best way you can, hope for the best for your family and everyone in general and thats all we as humans can really do. If you are a Christian you need to read over and pray the serenity prayer and really mean it.

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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    Im not sure how this applies elsewhere. My brother spent 12 hours ina MHI, and he has his CPL and numerous Hand and long guns.
    Thats not the issue or against the federal law if you actually sit down and read the 4473 or what you are answering questions to.

    In my home state you must go in front of a judge and court of law 3 times before getting sent to the state mental hospital & the judge cuts more people loose than they send.

    For the VA to send you to a in patent treatment center here again you must go in front of a judge and be court ordered to a VA mental health center.

    Nobody gives a crap if you are bi polar, have PTSD (I have PTSD according to the VA hospital) are ADD or are seeing a Psych Dr for treatment or what as long as you can matain a balance in your life and are not off your meds and unable to cope with your mental illness.

    It is when you crash and burn that problems occure, when you self medicate with booze, pot or other substances that effect how you think and behave that we as a public have issues.

    Researching is great fun and will fill you full of book knowledge, but till you live it you can not understand what it is truely like or how bad things can become. How many cutters have you delt with on a personal basis, how many people who have tried to kill themselves & have a mental illness have you delt with, how many victims of mental illness and destroyed family members have you personally seen and been involved with Mr advocate, till you have walked in there shooes and lived it you are out of your element and can not understand.


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    Mr.Advocate wrote:
    http://www.military.com/veterans-rep...ion?ESRC=vr.nl

    Thank goodness there's good people and good veteran organizations out there protecting the people who serve there country. Check the link above.


    http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter103.htm

    And this one above has really good stuff in it if you read starting about half way down and read the entire article you'll be very impressed on what this article has to do with exactly and the the complete common sense it displays, hell if you have time read the entire article.
    Too bad that one never went anywhere: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-3167

    Hopefully similar good legislation will be presented. I wonder if the Dems will pass it........
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Wrote by:Felid`Maxumus
    If these people are so unstable that they can't be trusted with a firearm, why are they trusted to live independently? Also, if not all people who are committed are that unstable, isn't it unfair for them all to be lumped together?

    Also, some people want to restrict non-committed people for mental problems. Won't this merely prevent many people from seeking treatment?
    Or better yet, Mr. Maxumus, why are they even allowed to have a license to drive a vehicle that they could essentially start using that as a weapon as well, right?lol

    And yes banning people who were not committed is completely wrong as well and unconstitutional and just pure anti-gun peoples way of thinking. YES it will prevent people from seeking help, just for the mere fact that they will be put on this so called NICS people prohibited from buying firearms list. This is just another way the gov. is trying to take firearms out of everyone's hands, one person and one reason at a time, I can't wait to see what there next little theory will be for taking more law abiding citizens rights to bear arms will be. These gun bans are just purely outrageous, MOST OF THEM ANYWAYS ARE, and we need to take this to the Supreme Court and get justice through the eyes of the law, and not scared politicians and soccer moms opinions. Cause in my views and the views of alot of other people, these anti-gun grabbers and these organizations against gun violence is just other ways to counter use from preserving our rights. Don't these people ever get it, you take away firearms out of law abiding citizens hands, all your doing in the long runs is creating more violence and easier target for those damn criminals

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    wrightme wrote:
    Mr.Advocate wrote:
    http://www.military.com/veterans-rep...ion?ESRC=vr.nl

    Thank goodness there's good people and good veteran organizations out there protecting the people who serve there country. Check the link above.


    http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter103.htm

    And this one above has really good stuff in it if you read starting about half way down and read the entire article you'll be very impressed on what this article has to do with exactly and the the complete common sense it displays, hell if you have time read the entire article.
    Too bad that one never went anywhere: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-3167

    Hopefully similar good legislation will be presented. I wonder if the Dems will pass it........
    NICS Improvement Act, also know as the Veterans disarmament Act, protects us veterans at least with PTSD, thats just the beginning though, we must continue to fight for everyone's rights who honestly ARE NOT nut cases like Cho was. That was actually approved Mr. Wrightme, and thanks BTW for the research on what I had looked into, I appreciate being corrected when my research was not completely accurate, I had no idea, that it did not go all the way through, what a shame, any suggestions on how we can get this thing started again to get the ball rolling on this again?

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    Mr.Advocate wrote:
    wrightme wrote:
    Mr.Advocate wrote:
    http://www.military.com/veterans-rep...ion?ESRC=vr.nl

    Thank goodness there's good people and good veteran organizations out there protecting the people who serve there country. Check the link above.


    http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter103.htm

    And this one above has really good stuff in it if you read starting about half way down and read the entire article you'll be very impressed on what this article has to do with exactly and the the complete common sense it displays, hell if you have time read the entire article.
    Too bad that one never went anywhere: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-3167

    Hopefully similar good legislation will be presented. I wonder if the Dems will pass it........
    NICS Improvement Act, also know as the Veterans disarmament Act, protects us veterans at least with PTSD, thats just the beginning though, we must continue to fight for everyone's rights who honestly ARE NOT nut cases like Cho was. That was actually approved Mr. Wrightme, and thanks BTW for the research on what I had looked into, I appreciate being corrected when my research was not completely accurate, I had no idea, that it did not go all the way through, what a shame, any suggestions on how we can get this thing started again to get the ball rolling on this again?
    After that research which you mention, I do have misgivings about HR2640. The definition leaves room for error or inclusion beyond what many of us would see as applicable. The definition needs to be addressed. I am closely watching the Nevada response to HR2640.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Mjolnir wrote:
    Tucker6900 wrote:
    Im not sure how this applies elsewhere. My brother spent 12 hours ina MHI, and he has his CPL and numerous Hand and long guns.
    Thats not the issue or against the federal law if you actually sit down and read the 4473 or what you are answering questions to.

    In my home state you must go in front of a judge and court of law 3 times before getting sent to the state mental hospital & the judge cuts more people loose than they send.

    For the VA to send you to a in patent treatment center here again you must go in front of a judge and be court ordered to a VA mental health center.

    Nobody gives a crap if you are bi polar, have PTSD (I have PTSD according to the VA hospital) are ADD or are seeing a Psych Dr for treatment or what as long as you can matain a balance in your life and are not off your meds and unable to cope with your mental illness.

    It is when you crash and burn that problems occure, when you self medicate with booze, pot or other substances that effect how you think and behave that we as a public have issues.

    Researching is great fun and will fill you full of book knowledge, but till you live it you can not understand what it is truely like or how bad things can become. How many cutters have you delt with on a personal basis, how many people who have tried to kill themselves & have a mental illness have you delt with, how many victims of mental illness and destroyed family members have you personally seen and been involved with Mr advocate, till you have walked in there shooes and lived it you are out of your element and can not understand.
    Mjolnir wrote:
    How many cutters have you dealt with on a personal basis, how many people who have tried to kill themselves & have a mental illness have you dealt with, how many victims of mental illness and destroyed family members have you personally seen and been involved with Mr advocate, till you have walked in there shoes and lived it you are out of your element and can not understand.
    Well, I guess I failed to leave alot of details out on alot of stuff, but I have encountered numerous in my lifetime who have tried to commit suicide and when I was at Walter Reed after my Iraq deployment, I personally knew quite a few cutters there, didn't socialize with them cause they seemed weird, you know cutting on yourself for no good apparent reason, and not to mention I haven't be at all a very sociable person every since Iraq, do to my severe PTSD, and yes I said severe, form 4473 is, like I've said before trumped by first the 2nd Amendment and secondly the ATF, if you willingly commit yourself, you are not forbiddin to owning firearms. When at Walter Reed, I, being in the mentally health area of the hospital, I encountered tons on a daily basis of soldiers as well as soldiers spouses who had all sorts of serious mental health issues, none that I could see as being a good reason for them being denied the right buy,own or carry a firearm for self protection. So no, I just don't talk the talk, I've walked it and lived with people with this other illnesses, with all do respect Mr. Mjolnir, congress and its anti-gun supporters are just looking and looking for reasons to deny rights to all American citizens one person at a time, one reason at a time, until we are a completely disarmed society. They think a gun free society is a danger free society, but we all here in opencarry.org no better, don't we? Just read alittle in the Great Britian section of this area, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Congress is trying to pass off the people with mental health issues as second class citizens, even if they helped fight for rights that we all love and some have.

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