mental health facility

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Mr.Advocate wrote:

http://www.military.com/veterans-report/committee-approves-second-amendment-legislation?ESRC=vr.nl

Thank goodness there's good people and good veteran organizations out there protecting the people who serve there country. Check the link above.


http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter103.htm

And this one above has really good stuff in it if you read starting about half way down and read the entire article you'll be very impressed on what this article has to do with exactly and the the complete common sense it displays, hell if you have time read the entire article.

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Too bad that one never went anywhere: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-3167

Hopefully similar good legislation will be presented. I wonder if the Dems will pass it........ :uhoh:

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Wrote by:Felid`Maxumus

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If these people are so unstable that they can't be trusted with a firearm, why are they trusted to live independently? Also, if not all people who are committed are that unstable, isn't it unfair for them all to be lumped together?

Also, some people want to restrict non-committed people for mental problems. Won't this merely prevent many people from seeking treatment?

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Or better yet, Mr. Maxumus, why are they even allowed to have a license to drive a vehicle that they could essentially start using that as a weapon as well, right?lol:lol:

And yes banning people who were not committed is completely wrong as well and unconstitutional and just pure anti-gun peoples way of thinking. YES it will prevent people from seeking help, just for the mere fact that they will be put on this so called NICS people prohibited from buying firearms list. This is just another way the gov. is trying to take firearms out of everyone's hands, one person and one reason at a time, I can't wait to see what there next little theory will be for taking more law abiding citizens rights to bear arms will be. These gun bans are just purely outrageous, MOST OF THEM ANYWAYS ARE, and we need to take this to the Supreme Court and get justice through the eyes of the law, and not scared politicians and soccer moms opinions. Cause in my views and the views of alot of other people, these anti-gun grabbers and these organizations against gun violence is just other ways to counter use from preserving our rights. Don't these people ever get it, you take away firearms out of law abiding citizens hands, all your doing in the long runs is creating more violence and easier target for those damn criminals

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wrightme wrote:

Mr.Advocate wrote:

http://www.military.com/veterans-report/committee-approves-second-amendment-legislation?ESRC=vr.nl

Thank goodness there's good people and good veteran organizations out there protecting the people who serve there country. Check the link above.


http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter103.htm

And this one above has really good stuff in it if you read starting about half way down and read the entire article you'll be very impressed on what this article has to do with exactly and the the complete common sense it displays, hell if you have time read the entire article.

Click to expand...

Too bad that one never went anywhere: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-3167

Hopefully similar good legislation will be presented. I wonder if the Dems will pass it........ :uhoh:

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NICS Improvement Act, also know as the Veterans disarmament Act, protects us veterans at least with PTSD, thats just the beginning though, we must continue to fight for everyone's rights who honestly ARE NOT nut cases like Cho was. That was actually approved Mr. Wrightme, and thanks BTW for the research on what I had looked into, I appreciate being corrected when my research was not completely accurate, I had no idea, that it did not go all the way through, what a shame, any suggestions on how we can get this thing started again to get the ball rolling on this again?

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Mr.Advocate wrote:

wrightme wrote:

Mr.Advocate wrote:

http://www.military.com/veterans-report/committee-approves-second-amendment-legislation?ESRC=vr.nl

Thank goodness there's good people and good veteran organizations out there protecting the people who serve there country. Check the link above.


http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter103.htm

And this one above has really good stuff in it if you read starting about half way down and read the entire article you'll be very impressed on what this article has to do with exactly and the the complete common sense it displays, hell if you have time read the entire article.

Click to expand...

Too bad that one never went anywhere: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-3167

Hopefully similar good legislation will be presented. I wonder if the Dems will pass it........ :uhoh:

Click to expand...

NICS Improvement Act, also know as the Veterans disarmament Act, protects us veterans at least with PTSD, thats just the beginning though, we must continue to fight for everyone's rights who honestly ARE NOT nut cases like Cho was. That was actually approved Mr. Wrightme, and thanks BTW for the research on what I had looked into, I appreciate being corrected when my research was not completely accurate, I had no idea, that it did not go all the way through, what a shame, any suggestions on how we can get this thing started again to get the ball rolling on this again?

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After that research which you mention, I do have misgivings about HR2640. The definition leaves room for error or inclusion beyond what many of us would see as applicable. The definition needs to be addressed. I am closely watching the Nevada response to HR2640.

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Mjolnir wrote:

Tucker6900 wrote:

Im not sure how this applies elsewhere. My brother spent 12 hours ina MHI, and he has his CPL and numerous Hand and long guns.

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Thats not the issue or against the federal law if you actually sit down and read the 4473 or what you are answering questions to.

In my home state you must go in front of a judge and court of law 3 times before getting sent to the state mental hospital & the judge cuts more people loose than they send.

For the VA to send you to a in patent treatment center here again you must go in front of a judge and be court ordered to a VA mental health center.

Nobody gives a crap if you are bi polar, have PTSD (I have PTSD according to the VA hospital) are ADD or are seeing a Psych Dr for treatment or what as long as you can matain a balance in your life and are not off your meds and unable to cope with your mental illness.

It is when you crash and burn that problems occure, when you self medicate with booze, pot or other substances that effect how you think and behave that we as a public have issues.

Researching is great fun and will fill you full of book knowledge, but till you live it you can not understand what it is truely like or how bad things can become. How many cutters have you delt with on a personal basis, how many people who have tried to kill themselves & have a mental illness have you delt with, how many victims of mental illness and destroyed family members have you personally seen and been involved with Mr advocate, till you have walked in there shooes and lived it you are out of your element and can not understand.

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Mjolnir wrote:
How many cutters have you dealt with on a personal basis, how many people who have tried to kill themselves & have a mental illness have you dealt with, how many victims of mental illness and destroyed family members have you personally seen and been involved with Mr advocate, till you have walked in there shoes and lived it you are out of your element and can not understand.

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Well, I guess I failed to leave alot of details out on alot of stuff, but I have encountered numerous in my lifetime who have tried to commit suicide and when I was at Walter Reed after my Iraq deployment, I personally knew quite a few cutters there, didn't socialize with them cause they seemed weird, you know cutting on yourself for no good apparent reason, and not to mention I haven't be at all a very sociable person every since Iraq, do to my severe PTSD, and yes I said severe, form 4473 is, like I've said before trumped by first the 2nd Amendment and secondly the ATF, if you willingly commit yourself, you are not forbiddin to owning firearms. When at Walter Reed, I, being in the mentally health area of the hospital, I encountered tons on a daily basis of soldiers as well as soldiers spouses who had all sorts of serious mental health issues, none that I could see as being a good reason for them being denied the right buy,own or carry a firearm for self protection. So no, I just don't talk the talk, I've walked it and lived with people with this other illnesses, with all do respect Mr. Mjolnir, congress and its anti-gun supporters are just looking and looking for reasons to deny rights to all American citizens one person at a time, one reason at a time, until we are a completely disarmed society. They think a gun free society is a danger free society, but we all here in opencarry.org no better, don't we? Just read alittle in the Great Britian section of this area, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Congress is trying to pass off the people with mental health issues as second class citizens, even if they helped fight for rights that we all love and some have.

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"A man good enough to shed his blood for his country, is good enough to receive a square deal afterwards . . ."
-- Theodore Roosevelt

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The form 4473 ask the mental health question with instruction to read an explanation of how to answer.If you were never told by officials,court or whatever to not be in possesion of firearms.You should then answer "no" on the form.The exact wording I don't remember,but it's there on the newest form.However you still may have state law against owning or possesing.

For those who say no one who has had mental health problems should not own or posses firearms.You obviously don't have a clue about the real world and maybe you should go talk to someone about it.

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Springfield45 wrote:

In Pa,

Involuntary appointment to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under section 302,303, or 304 under the provisions of the act of July 9, 1976,
(P.L. 817, No. 143), Known as the Mental Health Procedures Act. - Will Disqualify
a person from legally obtaining a Handgun, or LTCF in Pennsylvania.


~~Springfield

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By obtaining, does that also bar prior ownership? Say, a person owns a gun, they can't get another due to that state law, but...what about the firearms they already own? Seems simple enough to circumvent by going to another state to make a purchase, since you can't obtain one in PA...

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Mjolnir wrote:

Anybody who purchases a firearm of any kind and fills out the 4473 must answer with the truth and if you lie on the 4473 it is a federal offence that can land you in the federal prison system for 5 years mandatory.

Anybody committed to a mental instution willingly or un willingly can not own or posess firearms legally.

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If they're mentally ill, then how are you going to convict them?

But seriously,if some one is so unstable they cannot own a gun, they should not be loose in society. Sane enough to vote-Sane enough to tote!

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Wow, Citizen.

These quacks can't cure mental illness.They repeatedlyprove they don't know beans about mental illness, except to make labels.


My words almost exactly for many years!:dude:

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TheMrMitch wrote:

Wow, Citizen.

These quacks can't cure mental illness.They repeatedlyprove they don't know beans about mental illness, except to make labels.


My words almost exactly for many years!:dude:

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Thank you.

Thecurious part is that Mjolnir, despite his protestation, goes right on tosupport what I said. He gives lots of labels and discusses how hairy some of the mental cases can be, but omits to say anything about how they are cured. He also omits to explain how lots of years of study somehow translates into competenceat mental healing,despite the inability to cure.

I know MrMitch probably already knows this next. Its more for other readers.

Keep your eyes on the ball. Just ask, "Is the patient cured?" There is a lot of psycho-babble mumbo-jumbo connected with mental health. Its just there to obscure. To make it seem hard to understand. Don't be distracted by these things. Just keep focused on the ball--was there a cure? Is the unwanted mental condition gone for good? Or is there going to be a lifetime of treatment? (Gotta wonder who wins with that arrangement.)

Your mechanic can use technical words. But when you ask for aplainEnglishexplanation, he can explain it. Psychs can too---sometimes.

But at the end of the day, the mechanic can fix your car. The psychs just "treat".

Some talk-therapy patients have reported genuine relief, a sort of result that can legitimately be called a cure. Often after years of therapy. Come on. Howdoes it take yearsif thetherapist really understands the mind?

Psych drugs are a multi-billion dollar industry. Follow the money, too.

None of this is intended to cast criticism on the sufferers. Its intended to criticize the quack industry--mental health--that pretends to have competence, pretends to be the experts, and pretends to be able to do something about it. Yet, in the final analysis its mostly just prescribing a lifetime of this or that drug as a "treatment", which is not a cure.