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Thread: Committee OKs guns in restaurants bill

  1. #1
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    http://hamptonroads.com/2009/01/comm...staurants-bill

    The Associated Press
    © January 28, 2009 RICHMOND
    Another attempt to allow concealed weapons permit holders to carry hidden guns into restaurants that serve alcohol as long as they don't drink any has cleared a Senate committee.
    Gov. Tim Kaine vetoed Sen. Emmett Hanger's bill last year, and the Senate did not have the votes to overturn it. Administration officials said Kaine likely would reject it again.
    Under the legislation, those who carry a concealed weapon into a restaurant and either drink alcohol or fail to inform management that they're armed could be charged with a crime.
    Currently, guns can be taken into restaurants as long as they are out in the open.
    The Courts of Justice Committee endorsed the bill 9-6 Wednesday.


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    WooHoo! And now the *real* fun begins! ....

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    Ugh, the "fail to inform" crap again.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Armed wrote:
    WooHoo! And now the *real* fun begins! ....
    Doesn't sound so good to me if you have to inform the management. Senario: You inform manager. Manager calls cops says to them, "I think he has a gun on him." Cops; "Didn't he inform you?". "No". Now it's your word against his. Do you think an anti might pull something like this if given a chance?

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    You're right, and we need to see if we can influence that change in language. Not sure how that will come out. I do not recall in last year's bill... the 'duty to inform' that is contained in this year's bill. Did I miss that last year?

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    I would rather wait a year and get a bill without the "duty to inform."

    "Duty to inform" seems like it would become a major PITA, and if I'm going to tell someone I have a gun, I might as well OC.

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    hsmith wrote:
    Ugh, the "fail to inform" crap again.
    As I read the post (have not read the legislation), the duty to inform is only if you are drinking alcohol.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    BTW Neplusultra - Since I'll have my digital recorder on, I really don't care what they might tell LE. Would enjoy catching such an anti giving false information to a LEO.

    Having to notify them sort of reduces the reason to CC doesn't it. Guess I'll just continue to OC then I won't need to say a thing.

    Having to notify them is not unlike verbal brandishing. Do you just walk up to the hostess and say. "Party of four. I have a gun."

    I can imagine having to do this in all interactions with other people i.e. at Wally World customer service desk - I'd like to return these shoes. I am carrying a gun" or "Excuse me sir, that's my grocery cart. I have a gun."

    I'll have to keep it straight. With a LEO there is no duty to inform, at lunch or dinner will have to inform and in a "discussion" with another person I will be acting in a threatening or intimidating manner if I inform them.


    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Submitted Bill: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...091+ful+SB1035

    From the submitted bill:

    J3. No person shall carry who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia ; however, nothing herein may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club shall inform a designated employee of the restaurant or club that he is carrying a concealed handgun. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. A person who becomes intoxicated while carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such a restaurant or club is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall prohibit any sworn apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit while actually engaged in the performance of his official duties.


    EDIT: Some words are lined through in the bill's text, but that didn't convey in the "copy/paste" I performed to get it here.

    In a nutshell it seems that you would have to inform, period...though it doesn't lay out a punishment for not informing?



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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Glock27Bill wrote:
    As I read the post (have not read the legislation), the duty to inform is only if you are drinking alcohol.
    You would have a duty to inform when entering and could not legally drink alcohol.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    BTW Neplusultra - Since I'll have my digital recorder on, I really don't care what they might tell LE. Would enjoy catching such an anti giving false information to a LEO.

    Having to notify them sort of reduces the reason to CC doesn't it. Guess I'll just continue to OC then I won't need to say a thing.

    Having to notify them is not unlike verbal brandishing. Do you just walk up to the hostess and say. "Party of four. I have a gun."

    I can imagine having to do this in all interactions with other people i.e. at Wally World customer service desk - I'd like to return these shoes. I am carrying a gun" or "Excuse me sir, that's my grocery cart. I have a gun."

    I'll have to keep it straight. With a LEO there is no duty to inform, at lunch or dinner will have to inform and in a "discussion" with another person I will be acting in a threatening or intimidating manner if I inform them.


    Yata hey
    I was thinking about that too...I'd get a shirt printed that just says "I'm ARMED" on the front as that'll be much more subtle than carrying my tiny gun openly...I'll surely take advantage of that...:?

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    Notice how the article is redundant "concealed weapons permit holders to carry hidden guns". Blatant editorializing.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    http://hamptonroads.com/2009/01/comm...staurants-bill

    The Associated Press
    © January 28, 2009 RICHMOND
    Another attempt to allow concealed weapons permit holders to carry hidden guns into restaurants that serve alcohol as long as they don't drink any has cleared a Senate committee.
    Gov. Tim Kaine vetoed Sen. Emmett Hanger's bill last year, and the Senate did not have the votes to overturn it. Administration officials said Kaine likely would reject it again.
    So does this mean it is law? Or did it pass a senate committee? What exactly does that mean. Can the Gov. still veto? When is it official?

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    Squid13 wrote:
    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    http://hamptonroads.com/2009/01/comm...staurants-bill

    The Associated Press
    © January 28, 2009 RICHMOND
    Another attempt to allow concealed weapons permit holders to carry hidden guns into restaurants that serve alcohol as long as they don't drink any has cleared a Senate committee.
    Gov. Tim Kaine vetoed Sen. Emmett Hanger's bill last year, and the Senate did not have the votes to overturn it. Administration officials said Kaine likely would reject it again.
    So does this mean it is law? Or did it pass a senate committee? What exactly does that mean. Can the Gov. still veto? When is it official?
    It still must be voted upon by the senate and house and clear the governors desk to become law.

    Does this bill have VCDL support?

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    I mean really, if you frequent a place, all you would "technically" have to do is mail the manager/ect "I will always be carrying when I come to your restaurant" and it would satisfy the requirement

    Or you could have a card "This card informs you I am complying to VA Code Section XXXXX" and nothing else.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    hsmith wrote:
    Or you could have a card "This card informs you I am complying to VA Code Section XXXXX" and nothing else.
    I do like that!

    Their not understanding the message should be covered under ignorance of the law is no excuse.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    As law abiding citizens we can inform management the same way police do during a no-knock raid.

    Look at them from across the room when their back is to you and whisper under your breath, "I am informing you that I am lawfully carrying a firearm."

    Who cares of they fail to hear you.

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    Renegade wrote:
    As law abiding citizens we can inform management the same way police do during a no-knock raid.

    Look at them from across the room when their back is to you and whisper under your breath, "I am informing you that I am lawfully carrying a firearm."

    Who cares of they fail to hear you.


    Call it "whisper carry".
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    "Excuse me sir, that's my grocery cart. I have a gun."

    I'll have to keep it straight. With a LEO there is no duty to inform, at lunch or dinner will have to inform and in a "discussion" with another person I will be acting in a threatening or intimidating manner if I inform them.


    Yata hey
    "Excuse me sir, but that's my cart. And Virginia State law requires me to tell you that I have a gun"

    I can't see how that would ever be a problem :^).

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    "Excuse me sir, that's my grocery cart. I have a gun."

    I'll have to keep it straight. With a LEO there is no duty to inform, at lunch or dinner will have to inform and in a "discussion" with another person I will be acting in a threatening or intimidating manner if I inform them.


    Yata hey
    "Excuse me sir, but that's my cart. And Virginia State law requires me to tell you that I have a gun"

    I can't see how that would ever be a problem :^).
    "Excuse me, sir. It is now my grocery cart. And I too am required to notify that I have a gun. I am not required to notify you that I am the local IDPA champ, so I won't. You may, however, recover your vegetables. Just keep both hands where I can see them."


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  21. #21
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    It still has to get through both the House and Senate. Most likely the Governor will veto it again. You would then need a majority to over ride the veto.

    I would bet the language could be cleaned up by to eliminate the notify clause once it gets to the other side.

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    essayons wrote:
    Squid13 wrote:
    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    http://hamptonroads.com/2009/01/comm...staurants-bill

    The Associated Press
    © January 28, 2009 RICHMOND
    Another attempt to allow concealed weapons permit holders to carry hidden guns into restaurants that serve alcohol as long as they don't drink any has cleared a Senate committee.
    Gov. Tim Kaine vetoed Sen. Emmett Hanger's bill last year, and the Senate did not have the votes to overturn it. Administration officials said Kaine likely would reject it again.
    So does this mean it is law? Or did it pass a senate committee? What exactly does that mean. Can the Gov. still veto? When is it official?
    It still must be voted upon by the senate and house and clear the governors desk to become law.

    Does this bill have VCDL support?
    According to their last legislative update:

    SB 1035, Senator Hanger, repeals the restaurant ban (VCDL STRONGLY SUPPORTS)

  23. #23
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    An alert on this bill will go out later tonight (this morning technically).

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    Hostess: There's a wait.
    Patron: I need to let you or someone else know that I have a gun.

    How would that go over?



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    curtiswr wrote:
    Hostess: There's a wait.
    Patron: I need to let you or someone else know that I have a gun.

    How would that go over?

    Less wait?

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