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Thread: CCW in AK for "gun free school zones"?

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    Is it legal for a CCW permit holder to carry a loaded firearm on school grounds?

    i have some quotes for you

    THE "GUN OWNER REGISTRATION EXEMPTION:" The "gun free zones" law exempts CCW (Carry Concealed Weapon) holders who live in a state that requires a background check before the issuing of a permit. (This means that CCW holders that live in states like Alabama are not exempted under this provision because background checks are not mandated by state law.) What this so-called exemption does is force a citizen to register with the authorities as a gun owner before he can carry a loaded self-defense weapon in his or her car.
    taken from here : http://gunowners.org/fs9611.htm

    and then this:

    K-12 Carry Not Yet Determined

    NOTE: The Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act Restricts Carry to Permit Holders can be found here : http://opencarry.org/ak.html

    So what is the law? my understanding is that the state may not impose a law tighter than the federal law? or am I assuming something here?

    What I get out of this is that there is a reason after all to have a permit for CCW, if it is going to allow K-12 Conceal carry.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Rabid SA-XD wrote:
    So what is the law? my understanding is that the state may not impose a law tighter than the federal law? or am I assuming something here?
    WTF, where did you get that idea?

    Anyway, no you may NOT carry on school grounds. A firearm must be stored in accordance to the statute and the Gun Free School Zone Act
    Statute below, simply put you'll go to jail if you carry a loaded or unloaded firearm on your person unless under the exception in (C).
    Statute below
    Sec. 11.61.210. Misconduct involving weapons in the fourth degree.
    (a) A person commits the crime of misconduct involving weapons in the fourth degree if the person
    (7) other than a preschool, elementary, junior high, or secondary school student, knowingly possesses a deadly weapon or a defensive weapon, without the permission of the chief administrative officer of the school or district or the designee of the chief administrative officer, within the buildings of, on the grounds of, or on the school parking lot of a public or private preschool, elementary, junior high, or secondary school, on a school bus while being transported to or from school or a school-sponsored event, or while participating in a school-sponsored event, except that a person 21 years of age or older may possess
    (A) a deadly weapon, other than a loaded firearm, in the trunk of a motor vehicle or encased in a closed container in a motor vehicle;
    (B) a defensive weapon;
    (C) an unloaded firearm if the person is traversing school premises in a rural area for the purpose of entering public or private land that is open to hunting and the school board with jurisdiction over the school premises has elected to have this exemption apply to the school premises; in this subparagraph, "rural" means a community with a population of 5,500 or less that is not connected by road or rail to Anchorage or Fairbanks or with a population of 1,500 or less that is connected by road or rail to Anchorage or Fairbanks; or
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
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    still seems there is conflicting information there


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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    no, the statute is really clear.

    "knowingly possesses a deadly weapon or a defensive weapon, without the permission of the chief administrative officer of the school or district or the designee of the chief administrative officer"

    You can't be more clear than that. There are the exceptions listed below for people who are 21 years or older.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    then i guess im wondering what this means....

    NOTE: The Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act Restricts Carry to Permit Holders

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    and why shouldn't permit holders be allowed to keep their loaded sidearm, holstered while dropping off their children? Makes no sense why the govt would rather a law abiding permit holder handle their weapon with kids in the vehicle, so it could be unloaded for the 1000 feet rule. Certainly the least ammount of handgun handling should be the common goal here.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    You should look closer at the Gun Free School Zone Act, you'll see from the SCOTUS ruling it was first struck because congress doesn't have the right to regulate firearms at specific locations unless federal, those issues are left to the states. The act regulates firearms when there is interaction with interstate commerce.

    You don't seem to know much on how law works or who can do what, I recommend you pick up a book.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  8. #8
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    Who the ef declared you the know it all? i asked a question, if you cant be nice.... gtfo, and go play with your legos and tonka trucks. I will leave it at that.

  9. #9
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    FYIAK

    note: FYIAD, I replaced the D for a K ^_^
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    you might be a kid, but certainly not a dragon, and definately not on my christmas card list


    =^.^=

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Doesn't really matter what my age is, as I've done more to help the open carry and pro gun movement than you. Not only have I helped educate law enforcement in Alaska but Pennsylvania as well.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    Doesn't really matter what my age is, as I've done more to help the open carry and pro gun movement than you. Not only have I helped educate law enforcement in Alaska but Pennsylvania as well.
    That's a bold statement as you have no clue as to whom you are typing to and I find yourbantering unneccesary. Even if it were true that "you have done more," it is irrelevant as his questions and opinions are equally valid.Perhaps you should try using more tact in your posts if you expect to influence anyone here.

    Furthermore, are you a lawyer? If not, perhaps you can cite some case law to back up your statements. I would be interested in reading what you have.

    Nice to have fellow Alaskan's treat each other this way when someone is trying to learn. And after all that, you never did answer his question.
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    His own self assumed answers are incorrect, just as the pilot guy who joined the forum from Soldotna asking if he could carry his switchblade he bought out of state.

    As to his stupidity, it started after he told me to go play with my legos.

    I damn well answered his question, its a big NO. How god damn stupid can people be, I even pasted the statute and he went on to assume it's difficult to read so it's legal to carry because the Gun Free School Zone act mentions the exception to permit holders.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    His own self assumed answers are incorrect, just as the pilot guy who joined the forum from Soldotna asking if he could carry his switchblade he bought out of state.

    As to his stupidity, it started after he told me to go play with my legos.

    I damn well answered his question, its a big NO. How god damn stupid can people be, I even pasted the statute and he went on to assume it's difficult to read so it's legal to carry because the Gun Free School Zone act mentions the exception to permit holders.
    Fair enough Kangaroo, I remember the switchblade guy,but why such hostility and why so many insults? You might be right, but goodness gracious, it this necessary?

    He posted a line twice that maycontradict what you mentioned, perhaps causing confusion,and you just basically chastised him for being wrong. All I ask is that if you want to disagree with someone or set them straight, please provide citations if possible and please try to use less of a personal attacking post style.

    Regards and be safe..
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    You're right, I'm probably being a bit too harsh. I should lighten up some so I don't become an abrupt a$$hole like the state trooper who harassed me which clearly didn't know the law after spewing about 5 different charges he would try against me one after the other each time I stated to him the law on each. I just get so disappointed when someone doesn't know the law, and especially more when the person is an officer in law enforcement. I've probably cocked an attitude due to my tongue biting while getting flamed by specific officers in PA when over the phone.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    You're right, I'm probably being a bit too harsh. I should lighten up some so I don't become an abrupt a$$hole like the state trooper who harassed me which clearly didn't know the law after spewing about 5 different charges he would try against me one after the other each time I stated to him the law on each. I just get so disappointed when someone doesn't know the law, and especially more when the person is an officer in law enforcement. I've probably cocked an attitude due to my tongue biting while getting flamed by specific officers in PA when over the phone.
    That's disturbing. Were you the guy in the HomerWalmart that was harrassed or was this another case. I must have read about it from your postings, but in case I have not, could you PM me the details so as to not highjack this thread..?
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    I might have been the one that posted about Wal Mart, and it was the Anchorage mid-town location. That has been resolved with the store manager.

    Anyway it is my understanding that it is illegal by statute to carry on K-12 school grounds, but does not apply to University Campuses, although they do have their own restrictions against the carrying of weapons.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    correct spyder. I should also note "no firearms" signs, notice against trespass, do not have any legal standing in places open to the public.

    Here is a link to the trespass statute
    http://www.legis.state.ak.us/cgi-bin...c/%7B@4492%7D?

    Note the laws are in regard to undeveloped land and land which clearly notes land which is not open to the public. For no hunting, the sign has to say no hunting, no trespass, etc ALL accesses around the property.

    The point is, signs on college campus doors or businesses have no legal standing. I usually ignore them, even while open carrying, and go about my business. If I'm asked to leave, so be it. I simply call them up and influence them to allow me to open carry, if they don't, I ask them why their business has taken up an anti-american stance... like Costco.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    Kangaroo, there has been an ongoing debate in this section about whether or not open carry is legal in Alaska in places that serve alcohol for on-premises consumption. This is based on a concealed carry law in the statutes that seems to leave out open carry. For a while, I believed it was not legal, but after careful consideration, considering that I can find no actual statutes stating that it is illegal (which would be required) I have since changed my mind. I will be looking for clarification someday from the Attorney's General Office.

    What say you?

    Also, there has been some other legal issues pertaining to our state. It seems that the city of Palmer still has restrictions listed on the city website for concealed and apparently open carry as well, which includes the Fairgrounds. It is my understanding that Anchorage may still as well and has signs posted at the Lusaac Library, which is a public Library I believe. It is my legal understanding that Municipal Preemption signed in 2005 overrides these restrictions.

    What say you?
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    The Lusac Library is posted, so I just don't go there. I rarely go to libraries as it is. As mentioned before, if you're open carrying and you're asked to leave, do so, otherwise you'll be charged with trespassing. I usually conceal carry most of the time during the winter, so it's a don't ask don't tell kind of thing for me. The statute regarding the carrying of weapons to me is as clear as day. I am not aware of any municipal restrictions as stated in the statute, municipalities are prohibited from enacting stricter laws.

    Places off limits are K-12 schools, bars, courthouses, domestic violence shelters, licensed daycare facilities, and any residence where the person carrying the weapon has not received permission to carry within the home they're about to enter.

    If the statute applies to concealed carry, I do not see why it shouldn't apply to open carry as well. If you KNOWINGLY possess a deadly weapon on or in any of the restricted areas, you will be charged for it.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Spyder, if the library is city owned... they have NO say to ask you to leave.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Flintlock wrote:
    Kangaroo, there has been an ongoing debate in this section about whether or not open carry is legal in Alaska in places that serve alcohol for on-premises consumption. This is based on a concealed carry law in the statutes that seems to leave out open carry. For a while, I believed it was not legal, but after careful consideration, considering that I can find no actual statutes stating that it is illegal (which would be required) I have since changed my mind. I will be looking for clarification someday from the Attorney's General Office.

    What say you?

    Also, there has been some other legal issues pertaining to our state. It seems that the city of Palmer still has restrictions listed on the city website for concealed and apparently open carry as well, which includes the Fairgrounds. It is my understanding that Anchorage may still as well and has signs posted at the Lusaac Library, which is a public Library I believe. It is my legal understanding that Municipal Preemption signed in 2005 overrides these restrictions.

    What say you?
    carry in to places which serve alcohol is illegal for open and conceal carry, unless you can provide an affirmative defense it was 1) concealed and 2) you did not consume alcohol. You can still go to court over it, just like you can go to court over shooting someone dead in your home for self-defense.

    The preemption overrides old and new laws, there is no grandfathering or allowance for subsidiaries to create new laws which restrict firearms except use, as in firing in the city limits.

    No matter how much law enforcement want to go B'aaawwwww up in Anchorage, their ordinances if they still have them on the books hold no water. I also read in a 05'-06' article state troopers giving legal advice on posted signs when they're clearly wrong, 'no firearms' signs are not legal unless they fall under the trespass laws which I posted earlier.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    spyderdude wrote:
    The Lusac Library is posted, so I just don't go there. I rarely go to libraries as it is. As mentioned before, if you're open carrying and you're asked to leave, do so, otherwise you'll be charged with trespassing. I usually conceal carry most of the time during the winter, so it's a don't ask don't tell kind of thing for me. The statute regarding the carrying of weapons to me is as clear as day. I am not aware of any municipal restrictions as stated in the statute, municipalities are prohibited from enacting stricter laws.

    Places off limits are K-12 schools, bars, courthouses, domestic violence shelters, licensed daycare facilities, and any residence where the person carrying the weapon has not received permission to carry within the home they're about to enter.

    If the statute applies to concealed carry, I do not see why it shouldn't apply to open carry as well. If you KNOWINGLY possess a deadly weapon on or in any of the restricted areas, you will be charged for it.
    Well, you are drumming up another can of worms that I wasn't thinking about (but that could be a good discussion sometime) but I was just discussing the restaurant carry situation where alcohol is served for on-premises consumption. Moose's Tooth for example. There is no law against open carry therethat I can find as long as it is not loaded.


    Sec. 11.61.220. Misconduct involving weapons in the fifth degree.


    (a) A person commits the crime of misconduct involving weapons in the fifth degree if the person


    (2) knowingly possesses a loaded firearm on the person in any place where intoxicating liquor is sold for consumption on the premises;




    (d) In a prosecution under (a)(2) of this section, it is

    (1) an affirmative defense that

    (A) [Repealed, Sec. 7 ch 62 SLA 2003].
    (B) the loaded firearm was a concealed handgun as defined in AS 18.65.790; and
    (C) the possession occurred at a place designated as a restaurant for the purposes of AS 04.16.049and the defendant did not consume intoxicating liquor at the place;
    Also, there is not necessarily any similarities in excepting concealed carry law as open carry law. In most states, there is an absence of open carry laws altogether. In Virginia for example, it is illegal to concealcarry in locations that serve alcohol for on-premises consumption. There is no actual statute prohibiting the practice of open carry, not rendering it legal, either. There doesn't have to be one.

    Virginiahas since become thebirth of the open carry movement.

    Ifthe statute says weapons, firearms, or deadly weapons are prohibited, etc. then it is not going to matter how it is carried, it would not be allowed, IMO. But if it is concealed carry focused, that has nothing to do with open carry.

    One man's opinion.
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

  24. #24
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Yes, you're right, it leaves out the open carry of an unloaded firearm. I'm not sure however what a state of loading the firearm would be in if a person carried the loaded magazine on the other side of their person. I've not seen any case law as of yet, though other states had cases in the past, which makes me curious as to what action a case in Alaska would result.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  25. #25
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    spyderdude wrote:
    The Lusac Library is posted, so I just don't go there. I rarely go to libraries as it is. As mentioned before, if you're open carrying and you're asked to leave, do so, otherwise you'll be charged with trespassing. I usually conceal carry most of the time during the winter, so it's a don't ask don't tell kind of thing for me. The statute regarding the carrying of weapons to me is as clear as day. I am not aware of any municipal restrictions as stated in the statute, municipalities are prohibited from enacting stricter laws.

    Places off limits are K-12 schools, bars, courthouses, domestic violence shelters, licensed daycare facilities, and any residence where the person carrying the weapon has not received permission to carry within the home they're about to enter.

    If the statute applies to concealed carry, I do not see why it shouldn't apply to open carry as well. If you KNOWINGLY possess a deadly weapon on or in any of the restricted areas, you will be charged for it.
    The Lusac Library building is owned and operated by the city. And houses many city offices. its not just a library, I would like to see you carry in city hall. I know for a fact there are armed guards and metal detectors in there.

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