imported post
Sonora Rebel wrote:
I say, "No." And he says, "Look, if you come down here, you really ought to be."
THAT speaks volumes for the attitude of LEO's in Arizona. Can you imagine a NJ cop makin' that statement? Or most anywhere else for that matter?
Quite obviously, this would never happen in New Jersey. What was interesting about the encounter was the LEO was not a good ol' boy type. In fact I got the sense he wasn't from Arizona.
He looked worried when he said it. Kind of like, "I don't even know if I can recommend you come down here at all."
Since that time I've been down to Empire-Cienega several times and never had a problem but I'll never forget that cop.
Incidentally, if any Arizonans have not been to Organ Pipe, danger aside, I recommend it, because it is an eye-opener. It's kind of like "maximum border problems" in stark relief, no matter how you feel about the issue.
First of all, you can take a look at the ridiculous "border fence" - here is a photo I took. This runs for hundreds of miles, possibly thousands (haven't seen the border up close like that in other border states). Note that past that monument is Mexico. That is literally the international border. You can see cars drive by on the highway (obscured a bit by foliage) on the other side of the border, (MX 2D). Imagine how easy it must be to drop someone off, and then have them approach that fence, which poses no threat to anything but cows.
http://www.dataswamp.net/colin/organpipe.jpg
So then we're driving around the western loop there - the park is stunning, by the way, I love it there - recommend visiting during monsoon season.
And my friend gets out to take a leak, so he walks up over a rise toward where the border fence is, and he comes back with a nervous look on his face and says, "There is a horde of people coming toward us."
Suddenly the air explodes with sirens and flashing lights and a van zooms by us on the little dirt road there at about 70mph (a ridiculous speed for this road) followed by border patrol SUVs.
We got out of there. I am not afraid of migrants but with high speed chases like that and untold number of people carrying who knows what, I just didn't want to stick around. I get the sense that the Border Patrol would like to close that place, and having had that experience I understand why. You will notice dirt road systems along the border fence on the US side which have obvious usage. I didn't notice any cameras, but I am sure they have some serious surveillance going on.
Anyway, one thing I have noticed is there's way too much heat about this issue between the "lock em all up into labor camps" side and the "humane borders" side. In any case, crossing an international border in this fashion:
- Is not safe. If the safety of migrants is your concern, this is a really bad scene. I feel bad for the kids being dragged around like that. Humane borders people need to understand that while I do value the lives of those migrants, anything which encourages crossing like that does them a disservice. I'm kind of annoyed at people who make excuses for otherwise try to rationalize this kind of trans-desert border crossing. I wonder how many people will die this year. I know I couldn't make it.
- Is bad for US security. I don't have anything particularly against people coming here looking for work - to me that's an honest enough intention even if they bend the rules, but given the numbers crossing, any actual enemy of the United States could easily make their way in this way. There are people for whom deserts are not particularly intimidating and who could probably pass as local in Mexico, who would love to just waltz in this way. Borders are chokepoints. I'm for as liberal travel back and forth, in an orderly fashion, as possible (I notice many Mexicans drive up - legally - to shop in Tucson malls and enjoy the various things Tucson has to offer, which I encourage), but borders allow criminals to escape both from the US, and into the US from elsewhere, including potential terrorists. I agree with the Humane Borders people that these are human beings. I do not subscribe to the view that most people have ignoble intentions - most just want a better future for their family given the relative failure of the Mexican State. Mexico is a depressing place in many ways. Driving around down there, I always get the sense of how half-built everything is. Puerto Penasco in particular is demonstrative of this trend - it's as if there is some will to create something better, but it is half-hearted. Puerto Penasco is full of half built buildings, half built hotels, businesses which at first look fairly modern but can't take a simple credit card for payment. If you ever rent down there (and despite all this I like Puerto Penasco), everywhere I've stayed has had independent generators and water tanks. There's no infrastructure. My point in discussing all of this is, it's no wonder why people come north - Puerto Penasco is not one of the poorer parts of Mexico.
- Lastly, and this is probably the wrong place to bring this up as well, those on the Left really need to see the complete environmental havoc this causes. We've all read about it, but if you want to see for yourself and you live in Southern Arizona or want to take a visit...
Drive down Silverbell Road - that's in Marana. Take the Avra Valley Rd. exit from 10 and just drive west and keep going for awhile; it turns into Silverbell Road, which will then take you to the mythical Brigadoon-like Ironwood National Monument, which most people in Tucson have heard of but have never been to, and don't know how to get to for some reason. (Ironwood is the stuff "behind" Picacho Peak if you are traveling by it on the highway - it stretches down to Ajo Road).
After while you will see the unmistakble Silverbell Mine coming up on the right. Before that, look for phone lines (maybe electrical, can't tell) going across the road you're driving on. Pull off. Take a firearm.
Follow the electrical/phone lines south. This is an interesting area:
(1) There are abandoned missile silos here. They are sealed with concrete and have rock cairns on them for some reason (possibly for satellite identification by the Russians, in accordance with arms limitation treaties). There are various geocaches nearby if you're into that (that's how we found it).
(2) On the way, however, you are going to see a massive migration point. You will see water bottles everywhere, backpacks, soiled clothes, blankets, makeshift tents, etc. It is a complete dump.
What is interesting about this is how far from the border it is. This is north of Tucson, and migrants are in theory walking from the border up to Ajo Road, and then from there across the expanse of Ironwood and the T.O. Nation (possibly) to Marana - this is one hell of a journey.
My wife and I were surprised at the quantity of garbage left behind (including such sights as makeshift hammocks tied between palo verde trees). One assumes that this is only one of thousands of spots (on another note, you could probably gather up a lot of the satchels people leave behind - backpacks, etc. - wash them, and make them useful).
Some years ago I was wandering around back there and some guy (we call him "Elvis" because he had magnificent sideburns) pulled up in a truck and lectured us on how stupid it was to be walking around out there unarmed (I have a lot of these stories of people telling me to carry a gun around. I probably mentioned that I'm from New Jersey originally, so the difference around here is surreal - fortunately, I find the attitude refreshing). This guy had some ugly views on Mexicans but his point was salient. As a matter of fact I started to get paranoid and kind of hiked back double-time after this discussion.
You just wouldn't imagine migrant traffic that far north. Smuggling, definitely, to avoid the border patrol checkpoints, but I can't imagine walking it.
I used to work with Canadians (the only American on my team for quite some time actually) and they assumed these stories were exaggerations, and I used to tell them that it was really dysfunctional down here. Nothing like the northern border at all. I've been across both. The contrasts are interesting:
- Going into Canada - there is one concern: That you've declared anything you plan to sell. Every time I've gone in, I've been detained for carrying in my own laptop - it's like they don't believe anyone can fly into Canada without bringing something to sell illicitly, thereby depriving their government of tariffs. It's a bit ridiculous, frankly. Canada also is not enthusiastic about Americans and their guns, but losing out on tax revenue is what they really hate.
- Coming back into the US - it's like they don't want you back. I've both driven and flown into Canada, and when you drive, the border employees on the Canadian side are so nice, offering maps, asking if you have questions, welcoming you. Some political differences aside, I really like Canada and Canadians generally. But coming the other way, these guys are all like R. Lee Ermey characters. Harsh and hostile. Don't think it's warranted personally.
- Driving into Mexico - complete and total indifference. Mexicans just simply do not care and do not pay attention. I've seen Americans nearly doubling the speed limit on the road down to Puerto Penasco (nice drive, incidentally, if you ever get the chance), and the very young police kind of stand on the side of the road, smokin' and jokin', taking no notice.
- Driving into the United States from Mexico - bureaucracy, gridlock, dogs. I've never been treated with any personal hostility like I have coming back from Canada, but the wait is insane. The last time we drove back from Puerto Penasco, we waited in a line that was nearly two miles long. We get to the border and provide proof of citizenship (why they require an easily forgable birth certificate I have not yet figured out - soon to change with passport reqs), and are on our way in approximately 20 seconds. It is always amusing to see the complete junk people buy in Mexico (in fact, vendors walk up and down the line of traffic waiting at the border, selling more crap!).
Even folks in the rest of the US have no idea how screwed up it is. For all of the homeland security stuff - remove your shoes, no gels or shampoos, etc., people can just basically saunter into the country with impunity. The more I spend time along the border, the more of a clown car I think our national security scheme is. My one hope for Janet Napolitano is that she will get some federal funds for border enforcement. No one in the rest of the country cares, but then again, they really don't understand the degree of chaos down here.
And no, I'm not for shooting anyone who comes across. I am not particularly convinced any wall is likely to have any effect either. The solution seems to be a combination of sanctions against people who employ illegal immigrants, expedited process for citizenship if illegal migrants can show complete economic self-sufficiency (many can) - I think those people would make really good Americans, and then, there is the state of Mexico itself.
Kinky Friedman had an interesting idea. Pretty sure he was half-joking, but he proposed an idea where you put 30 million dollars (or some sum, forget which) into a bank account. The contents of that bank account would be the property of Mexican police officials.
For every illegal migrant or smuggler caught by the border patrol, we deduct a sum from that account. At the end of the year we tally it up.
Anyway sorry for the long post. I am procrastinating from doing some really tedious, unfulfilling work.
