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Thread: Michael Guzman says "I hope their [open carry] bill dies quickly"

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    Texas Students for Concealed Carry Leader conducts uprovoked attack on open carry members in Texas.

    Weird - I support his efforts as I'm sure most open carry.org members do as well.

    Guzman's assessment is eroneous - of course the legislators can consider more than one good pro-gun bill.
    ---

    http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/pol.../38708642.html

    http://tinyurl.com/bd6ebd

    Tension between gun groups

    By David S. Rauf - Austin bureau A couple of interesting things stood
    out while researching today's story on proposed gun laws.

    First: Gun control advocates appear to be doing little this session in
    terms of pushing legislation they deem favorable.

    Marsha McCartney, president of the North Texas Brady Campaign to
    Prevent Gun Violence, said the group might not ask lawmakers to carry
    two pieces of legislation -- one that would require background checks
    for all firearm sales at gun shows and another that would limit
    handgun purchases to one every 30 days -- that the gun control group
    normally advocates.

    "We haven't completely decided if we're going to ask for those bills
    to be filed," said McCartney. "But probably not if we have the same
    committee heads."

    She added: "We know how things work in Texas and if you don't have the
    backing, you don't go far."

    For now, the Brady Campaign's top priority for the session, McCartney
    said, will be trying to mount a good defense to the issue of concealed
    carry on campus.

    On that note, there appears to be some hostility brewing between the
    group advocating for concealed carry on campus and the group backing
    the push for licensed Texans to be allowed to openly tote their
    pistols.

    Michael Guzman, a senior at Texas State University and president of
    the grassroots gun group called "Students for Concealed Carry on
    Campus," is worried that the two issues will be "muddled" together by
    the media once the respective bills are filed, causing confusion among
    lawmakers and regular Texans.

    Plus, there appears to be another element causing tension between the
    members of SCCC and the Virginia-based group OpenCarry.org -- one of
    competing interests.

    "If these open carry guys get enough attention with the introduction
    of their bill, it's going to knock off our bill," Guzman said. "Our
    biggest obstacle is another gun rights group. It's ridiculous that two
    gun rights groups are going to be canceling each other out."

    The open carry folks say they understand the concerns, but argue that
    both have their aim set on identical goals: broadening Second
    Amendment rights for Texans.

    "I think it's one and the same. We're both going for gun rights," said
    Ian McCarthy, chairman of the Texas Open Carry work group. "They just
    think people are afraid of open carry."


    One last note: While the push to allow students and faculty to carry
    concealed handguns on campus has garnered the support of the powerful
    gun lobby, the open carry movement doesn't yet have the official
    backing of the National Rifle Association or their state affiliate,
    the Texas State Rifle Association.

    "They're going about it the wrong way," Guzman said. "I hope their
    bill dies quickly so we can move on to more substantive debates about
    concealed carry on campus."



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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I guess that means "going about it the right way" would be getting the NRA's support for something they have never shown any support for (apparently out of sheer principle) so that our issue can qualify as "substantive".

    What a clown.

    VCDL > NRA as far as I am concerned. :P

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    BTW - you can comment on the article at the link at the top of Mike's post....

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    I didn't realize Guzman was a *****. At least now I know.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    what a dummy. All he is showing people is division among the ranks. You can't win battles when there is mutiny on the ship. WOW that is such a powerful and ignorant statement that he has made but i would never wish that movement any hardship, well you reap what you sew.

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    Wow...didn't see that coming. It is my belief that the synergy of other pro-gun owner legislation helps bring awareness to any pro-gun owner activities. The glass is half full. The more the merrier.

    Despite the fact that Guzman hopes our OC bill dies quickly, I hope that his campus CC bill does not. Sure hope karma doesn't bite him in the six.

    Oops...nkingread my mind and beat me to it.


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    Campaign Veteran pourshot's Avatar
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    Just sent to:

    "Michael Guzman" <Michael.Guzman@concealedcampus.org>,



    Mr. Guzman,

    I have always supported SCCC in the past, but with you showing division in the ranks with what appears to be a very petty argument it makes me wonder if that support was misplaced. Now, I know the press can always misquote or take out of context, so i am hoping that the parochial view that was displayed was, in fact, not the real you.

    Either way, you really should consider sending an apology to the Open Carry folks.

    Thanks,

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    cccook wrote:
    Wow...didn't see that coming. It is my belief that the synergy of other pro-gun owner legislation helps bring awareness to any pro-gun owner activities. The glass is half full. The more the merrier.

    Despite the fact that Guzman hopes our OC bill dies quickly, I hope that his campus CC bill does not. Sure hope karma doesn't bite him in the six.

    Oops...nkingread my mind and beat me to it.
    I couldn't agree more. I fully support SCCC as well as the employer parking lot bill. It's a crying shame that Guzman doesn't see 54,000 petition signatures as alies.

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    I hope you all understand that the point of the article was to 'encorage' a division, not to 'report' one!



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    wow, i never saw that one coming either. every rep i've talked to in TX that has asked what i thought about the concealed carry on campus has always received my affirmative support for the initiative. here i thought that TSRA was going to be our opponent.

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    OC4me wrote:
    I hope you all understand that the point of the article was to 'encorage' a division, not to 'report' one!

    Very good point OC4me, I didn't think about it that way.

    The divsion won't work though. I, like a lot of other folks hope SCCC gets their bill passed even if open carry doesn't get the time of day. Our day will come! The future ofAmerica resides in our young men and women attending College and trade schools. They need to be able to do thiswithout the fear of beingthe target of a deranged individual or jilted lover.

    Theyhave the Godgiven right or if your are so inclined, the birth right to protect themselves in these establishments.

    The important thing is, isthat for every 2A right the Brady Campaign tries to remove, we work to reinstate two.

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    Did anyone else notice that the author of this report is the same person that authored this report?

    http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/pol...of_debate.html

    He linked to it in the first line of the follow-up report Mike posted. (You have to move your curser around the text to find the underlined links.)

    I'm wondering if Mr Guzman actually said any of the things that Mr. Rauf (the reporter) claims he did? OC4me may be on to somethijng here. I can't see a division between the two groups.

    I see that the Brady Bunch elected to abandon lobbying attempts to push their own legislation. They must have known they were licked from the getgo. :celebrateThey just don't have the"powder" for a fight, huh.

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    I hope that rather than send emails to Mr. Guzman critizing him personally, that you instead contact the nice young man who deserves our support, explain to him exactly what the media will try to do in driving a wedge (divide and conquer) and help him understand how to deal with these so-called'reporters' seeking to 'create facts' to suita story for their own personal anti-gun goals.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Did anyone else notice that the author of this report is the same person that authored this report?

    http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/pol...of_debate.html

    He linked to it in the first line of the follow-up report Mike posted. (You have to move your curser around the text to find the underlined links.)

    I'm wondering if Mr Guzman actually said any of the things that Mr. Rauf (the reporter) claims he did? OC4me may be on to somethijng here. I can't see a division between the two groups.

    I see that the Brady Bunch elected to abandon lobbying attempts to push their own legislation. They must have known they were licked from the getgo. :celebrateThey just don't have the"powder" for a fight, huh.
    Sooooo are we saying that Mr. Rauf used a little artistic editing to get an agenda across. Maybe fan flames that doesn't exist? If so he needs to be called to the carpet.

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    GumiBear wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Did anyone else notice that the author of this report is the same person that authored this report?

    http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/pol...of_debate.html

    He linked to it in the first line of the follow-up report Mike posted. (You have to move your curser around the text to find the underlined links.)

    I'm wondering if Mr Guzman actually said any of the things that Mr. Rauf (the reporter) claims he did? OC4me may be on to somethijng here. I can't see a division between the two groups.

    I see that the Brady Bunch elected to abandon lobbying attempts to push their own legislation. They must have known they were licked from the getgo. :celebrateThey just don't have the"powder" for a fight, huh.
    Sooooo are we saying that Mr. Rauf used a little artistic editing to get an agenda across. Maybe fan flames that doesn't exist? If so he needs to be called to the carpet.
    I believe it is very possible, Gumi. I put nothing past the liberal media.

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    Very interesting, especially in light of the divisions in Wisconsin that revolve around these same issues.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Did anyone else notice that the author of this report is the same person that authored this report?

    http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/pol...of_debate.html

    He linked to it in the first line of the follow-up report Mike posted. (You have to move your curser around the text to find the underlined links.)

    I'm wondering if Mr Guzman actually said any of the things that Mr. Rauf (the reporter) claims he did? OC4me may be on to somethijng here. I can't see a division between the two groups.
    Hmmm, will reserve judgement on this until further evidence is present.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Unfortunately this is the sediment of many of the people at SCCC. Half the time someone is either saying that open carry is a poor tactical advantage. Or that SCCC takes no "official" stance on open carry. I feel that is a weak position. If you cannot fully support the right completely then your opposition will exploit your own position. They don't want to say anything positive about open carry because then someone would ask the question, "well if you can open carry on college campuses would you advocate?" They don't want to support anything that they perceive would be a danger to any of their legislative action or scare the sheeple. A bit childish don't you think. Here is what Scott Lewis said when I made a casual remark that there should be a pool to see which bill is signed into law first.

    Found on the comments section on the SCCC facebook page.


    Scott Lewis (Austin, TX) wrote
    at 1:40pm on January 10th, 2009

    "Open carry is a different issue in Texas than in many states. Texas hasn't had legal open carry since the Civil War, so there are a lot of public perception issues that must be overcome for open carry to have any chance of becoming legal in Texas. The group pushing for open carry in Texas is not following the recommended channels or working with established gun rights organizations and lobbying groups (like the NRA and the Texas State Rifle Association), and they're taking a lot of actions that contradict what people with extensive experience in Texas gun politics suggest they should be doing. Many of those actions reflect poorly on not only open carry but on the issue of gun rights as a whole. The way things are being handled now, it looks like the open carry bill is probably going to be laughed out of the Texas Legislature, so the last thing SCCC wants to do is attach the two bills or see the two bills connected in the minds of the public.
    Report"

    I guess because Texans didn't beg for the blessing of the mighty NRA and the TSRA, the opinion of 50,000+ people on a petition mean jack @#$%.

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    And the method chosen by those "in the know" in Texas gives them....

    Yes, you can carry IF WE SAY SO, but heaven help you if anyone finds out!!!!

    Granted, that is onestep--- one very miniscule step!!!!!

    Texas, take the plunge and pass BOTH BILLS!!!!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Guzman made a point at the Gun Rights Policy Conference back in September that he thought the open-carry movement was hurting the SCCC movement. This doesn't surprise me.

    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    tito887 wrote:
    Scott Lewis (Austin, TX) wrote
    at 1:40pm on January 10th, 2009

    "Open carry is a different issue in Texas than in many states. Texas hasn't had legal open carry since the Civil War, so there are a lot of public perception issues that must be overcome for open carry to have any chance of becoming legal in Texas. The group pushing for open carry in Texas is not following the recommended channels or working with established gun rights organizations and lobbying groups (like the NRA and the Texas State Rifle Association), and they're taking a lot of actions that contradict what people with extensive experience in Texas gun politics suggest they should be doing. Many of those actions reflect poorly on not only open carry but on the issue of gun rights as a whole. The way things are being handled now, it looks like the open carry bill is probably going to be laughed out of the Texas Legislature, so the last thing SCCC wants to do is attach the two bills or see the two bills connected in the minds of the public.
    Report"
    Scott Lewis's comment is vary naive - apparently they are not teaching grass roots organization in college politics very well these days, but you would thnk that folks would catch on given Obama's greass roots come from behind win over Hillary Clinton. Further, it's pretty well known that independent state gun rights groups often lead the charge for major shifts in state gun policy - the NRA affiliates like TSRA tend to be moved into the background once a viable independent state group emerges, e.g., VCDL.

    Now, another problem with Lewis is that he ignores the needs of his own "constituents," college students, who would benifit greatly from open carry reform in Texas. In most states, college students aged 18 and up can open carry handguns without any license off campus - and frankly, many most college students these days live off campus.



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    Trying to get support from the NRA is a waste of time. If Open Carry or CC in colleges was important to them it would have already been fought for by them. It's up to grassroots groups like those of us here on OCDO to get the word out and get the ball rolling. Of course, after all the hard work is done and the laws are passed to allow OC or CC carry the NRA will hold a big press confrence and claim to have had a hand in these battles.
    President/ Founding Member
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    www.laopencarry.org

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    OK, time for a little humor: Take a look at this "Who are those guy's clip" from the movie Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIie9OosnEM

    From the recent articles and Internet chatter, one would think that the guys on horseback are Ian McCarthy and the Texas Open Carry Working Group while Paul Newman is playing the part of the TSRA's Alice Tripp and Robert Redford is playing the part of SCCC's Michael Guzman.







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    Tess wrote:
    Guzman made a point at the Gun Rights Policy Conference back in September that he thought the open-carry movement was hurting the SCCC movement. This doesn't surprise me.
    Wow - did you go to that? That really is poor form on the part of Guzman. It's too bad Guzman does not realize that we are not delaing with a zero sum game on gun rights.

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    That was a funny video Mike. I don't know if the guy who made that video was inspired by this other guy or not. But at thatguywiththeglasses.com there are over 40 videos of 5 second movies. If your interested you'll get a kick out of those videos.

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