Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: I would like to OC but have a problem

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Scranton, Pa, ,
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    Hello everyone, Id like to say first I stumbled across this site during a search and sat and read through 8 pages of threads over the last three days. I see alot of very intelligent discussions, and good ideas. I much enjoyed the whole "air" of the site. So I was hoping to get some opinions and maybe some insight?

    Ok to make a long story short (I will rehash the whole event gladly if you wish) I took my gun from PA into NY without thinking about it, got pulled over, and arrested. I dont know the legal mumbo jumbo but I was charged with something lesser (disguising a gun as a toy) so I could more easily fight itand was let go with papers stating that if I broke no laws in six months all charges would be dropped. Six months went up and I got my permit back in the mail and went to the gun store. BTW I'd already talked to the Sheriff and he said if I got my permit back that it means im ok to buy. I was approved for a rifle, then three weeks later denied for a pistol. The store owner warned that if i challened and they dug into it I may get my rifle taken away from me. Any ideas?

    I got my firearm because at 23 ive been mugged once at gun point, had an attempted car jacking in Richmond Va, and had my car stolen from my driveway. Im a magnet for trouble I guess. I dont know why, I dont look like a victim at 5'11" 205 lbs. Im a pretty bigfellaand openly inked. Ive had it CC for a couple years and if I get it back I'd like to try carrying it openly. But id have to do one of your open carry dinners, I dont feel comfortable just jumping into it.

    Long and short Im afraid I dont know how to go about this.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Indiana, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    674

    Post imported post

    Do the appeal on the pistol purchase if you haven't already. Right now. Have it in the mail tomorrow.


    If it turns out you're a prohibited person (Though if you had the charges dismissed, they won't be on your record. I went through the same thing with a trespassing charge in NY, and it doesn't show up on my record.) you'll want to be informed of this.


    Just holding on to the rifle and pretending nothing happened is a "Very Bad Thing" if there's any doubt to the legality of you having it, and if you ever use it to defend yourself, and find out THEN that you're a prohibited person, you're looking at spending time with Bubba, or a very long, expensive battle to keep yourself from it.

    Yes, you might end up finding out you can't keep your rifle, but it's better than finding out you can't keep your freedom.

  3. #3
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,441

    Post imported post

    Your dealer is an idiot. Do not take advice from this guy on anything knowing what ****** advice he gave you on this serious issue.

    File the challenge form (if you are still within the time period). Filing or not filing will NOT change your status if you are indeed prohibited. Denials DO happen erroneously. Especially in cases like yours where you had a brush with the law and the court/paperwork may not reflect the current status. Speaking of which, I am less than confident in LEO's following up on such promises like you report you received from NY. Were the charges indeed dropped? Or were you cited/convicted or a lesser offense? Who took your permit? NY police? Who gave it back? It should not have been seized if it was not revoked (doesn't sound like it was).



  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Indiana, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    674

    Post imported post

    Rich, in New York there's a trial disposition that they completely wipe a charge if you don't re-offend for the next six months, it's not just a promise by police/whoever.

    I can't remember what they call it, but I've gotten one before.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Scranton, Pa, ,
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    I'm trying to dig up my papers. It's like Aran said. When I find the paper I know it states in bold at top what it's all about. This all happened in march and April last year so it's been a while.
    Also as far as being in the time period do you mean the fifteen days the background check has to get back to you? Because it was filed on Dec 18 and I didn't get a reply for nearly 22 days. That had the store owner and myself confused. I must admit this whole thing happened over the holidays. Could that be a factor? Or perhaps that it was tried so close to the rifle purchase? Either way I will be getting that challenge form out in the mail!

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    460

    Post imported post

    Like others have said, you should indeed challenge as soon as possible (NOW). The process can be eased along if you caninclude court records that show the charge was ultimately dismissed, or even if you can show the nature of the offense was less than a felony- but if this is not immediately available you can submit them later.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Yorktown, VA, ,
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    Plan for the worst and hope for the best - I have personal experience with the Pennsylvania Instant Check System (PICS) and its many flaws.

    I have purchased firearms in PA and VA and never had any problems. I applied for an received a Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit. At the time VA and PA did not have a reciprocal agreement so I applied for a PA License to Carry Firearms - this is when the fun began.

    I was denied - I appealed knowing that it was a mistake on their part.

    No dice, was denied a second time.

    If I remember correctly at that time I was given an additional 30-days to submit additional information to clear things up prior to the entire "case" going to the next level. I took time to call the county Courthouse, the Sheriff, and finally the local police. Everyone were very helpful and shared their displeasure with how the Pennsylvania State Police (PSP) continually screwed things up with PICS.

    In the end the additional info I submitted cleared everything up - my records were corrected. For anyone else that runs into problems with PSP PICS don't give up - press the issue and force them to correct what is wrong.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Scranton, Pa, ,
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    So you suggest I call my local sheriff? I dont really see what my local PD could do but maybe I could call the Harrisburg firearms division, see if they had any insight as to the problem. Ive dealt with them before, slow process getting to talk to anyone.

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    YllwFvr wrote:
    So you suggest I call my local sheriff? I dont really see what my local PD could do but maybe I could call the Harrisburg firearms division, see if they had any insight as to the problem. Ive dealt with them before, slow process getting to talk to anyone.
    Read the posts closely - they suggest you file a PICS denial appeal with the PSP.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Scranton, Pa, ,
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    I have one of those, and I will definately send it in. Up until now I was afraid to as a veritable doomsday scenario was described by the store owner if they dug into why I passed the first one at all. Thanks guys! I hope this all gets straightened out! I want to try one of those dinners!

  11. #11
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338

    Post imported post

    Most cases I heard of that would be dropped in 6 months of good behavior are not automatically dropped you have to go to the court the ticket or infraction occured and make sure they take care of the records so that it is really dropped. Sometimes this might even mean appearing before a judge or commissioner but mostly not.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Scranton, Pa, ,
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    Most cases I heard of that would be dropped in 6 months of good behavior are not automatically dropped you have to go to the court the ticket or infraction occured and make sure they take care of the records so that it is really dropped. Sometimes this might even mean appearing before a judge or commissioner but mostly not.
    WOW that would be terrible! Thats a four hour drive one way, then theres the wait (court rooms are worse than doctors offices!). Ill call and see if its still on my record.I call to the court I had mydismissal at?

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338

    Post imported post

    Yea I know I thought this incident of mine was supposed to be dropped until I tried to go up to Canada one time thats how I found out the courts don't automatically drop them you have to petition the court to get it removed. But if it was in the courts ruling to be dropped after so much time of good behavior they usually do it without any hiccups.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    142

    Post imported post

    Just reading this now. I hope you get it all taken care of and look forward to meeting you in March at the dinner. (FYI you're welcome to come and meet everyone even if you're still trying to iron everything out at that point!)

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Scranton, Pa, ,
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    Well thank you very much! It's appreciated and I will be there.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Scranton, Pa, ,
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    Found my papers. ACD adjournment in contemplation of dismissal.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Scranton, Pa, ,
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    Contacted my lawyer, my charges were dropped the fourth of this month and I'm free and clear! Going to go pick out a pistol tomorrow!
    Wish me luck!

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Indiana, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    674

    Post imported post

    YllwFvr wrote:
    Found my papers. ACD adjournment in contemplation of dismissal.
    Thanks, I was trying to remember what it was called since you first mentioned it.

    It's been about four years for mine now, so I don't even know where my paperwork is anymore (Probably in the safe back home)

  19. #19
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    926

    Post imported post

    Dont forget, "charges dropped" is not always an all clear.

    There are some states (PA?) which say "If you have ever been ADJUDICATED" you cannot buy a firearm.
    Adjudicated is a very broad term, but simply means if you have ever been processed in a criminal case.

    For instance, in Maryland, if you were 13 years old and got caught shoplifting and the charges dropped, even when your 80 years old and a totally clean adult record you still wouldn't be able to buy a firearm.
    The same in Colorado.

    Yet, an adult who has non-violent misdemeanor convictions is still able to buy firearms all day long .

    Insane isnt it?



    What I would advise you to do , is get your record expunged.

    Even though the charges were "dropped" there is still a court record on you.

    Getting it expunged would totally delete your case file from any computers.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Scranton, Pa, ,
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    Sig229 wrote:
    Dont forget, "charges dropped" is not always an all clear.

    There are some states (PA?) which say "If you have ever been ADJUDICATED" you cannot buy a firearm.
    Adjudicated is a very broad term, but simply means if you have ever been processed in a criminal case.

    For instance, in Maryland, if you were 13 years old and got caught shoplifting and the charges dropped, even when your 80 years old and a totally clean adult record you still wouldn't be able to buy a firearm.
    The same in Colorado.

    Yet, an adult who has non-violent misdemeanor convictions is still able to buy firearms all day long .

    Insane isnt it?



    What I would advise you to do , is get your record expunged.

    Even though the charges were "dropped" there is still a court record on you.

    Getting it expunged would totally delete your case file from any computers.
    Yeah I would guess that must be the case because I failed again Monday. The PICS lady told the saleman dont let me leave without filling out a challenge form... It would be terrible if Im barred from buying!

    Now thats just handguns right? You have to have them registered so it must be through a Firearms dealer?

    Long guns and shot guns I can still purchase second hand from individuals?

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Turtle Creek (outside of Pittsburgh), Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    84

    Post imported post

    If you are "Prohibited" I would not reccomend it as you could be looking at Felony charges.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Scranton, Pa, ,
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    I thought it was only prohibited from owning firearmsif you are convicted of felony charges?

  23. #23
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    926

    Post imported post

    YllwFvr wrote:
    Yeah I would guess that must be the case because I failed again Monday. The PICS lady told the saleman dont let me leave without filling out a challenge form... It would be terrible if Im barred from buying!

    Now thats just handguns right? You have to have them registered so it must be through a Firearms dealer?

    Long guns and shot guns I can still purchase second hand from individuals?
    Honestly, Im new to PA and I haven't bought a handgun yet here. So Im not sure of they use a different system for pistols or long guns.

    I should clarify the above statement, I have a house in PA and go to school (WVU) here in WV where I also have a home.

    If you are having troubles with this being on file in New York, you can go to a state like WV where they dont have a state run firearm system and just do a form 4473 for rifles and shotguns.
    But you wont be able to purchase handguns outside of your state of residents.

    As far as buying from an individual, yes you can still do that. Your not a convicted felon, so you should be fine.

    But I would go ahead and challenge it. You have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

    I once had to do this when I lived in Delaware because I had the same exact first, middle and last name of a man who was convicted of armed robbery.

    Every time I tried to make a gun purchase the DE state police denied it and showed up to the gun store a half hour later.

    It only took two weeks for me to challenge it and I got a notarized legal letter from the DE state police confirming that I was not that individual and had a right to buy and own firearms.
    They also put a notation on file with the DE State Police for future gun purchases.
    And I never had a problem after that.

    You would think the SSN and DOB would have cleared me, but I guess they are extra careful these days.

    But when I lived in Wyoming, Colorado and Florida I was in the gun store and out within 20n minutes after the background check with my new toy.
    So every state is different.


    On second thought, if I were you I would get the NY case expunged and then challenge the PA state police.

    That way you will know 100% for sure that your good to go.

    Call a lawyer in the town that your were charged who specializes in expungements and see what he/she can do for you.
    It shouldnt cost very much and dont let them milk you for a lot of money.
    Its a VERY easy process that you could actually do yourself if you have any legal knowledge.


    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    ParkHills, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    Arentzville, Pa.

    Long story short, my wifes EX jumped through the car window, and punched me in the jaw, i quickly exited the vehicle and commenced to beating the crap out of this fella, the Pa. state police were called to the loc. and took both sides of the story, and a story from a witness in the business, the EX went to the hospital, and i went back home, The EX insisted he was attacked, and followed through with assault charges all the way to the court date, until the gas station witness showed up and gave his side of the story, and all charges were dropped against me.. BUT!! Pa. contacted Delaware and I was denied purchase of a firearm for 3 years, not possession or use, just purchase.. My wife fulfilled the purpose of purchasing the firearm gifts that were subsequently bought for our son for that duration, and upon my return to Missouri, I have never had any problems with denial since, this all happened in 1998, but to this day, all of my purchases have taken at least 24 hrs.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •