Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 39

Thread: Another misguided, uninformed, bitter, scared anti-gunner with a newspaper

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    Chris Fordney: Guns are winning in capital

    Philip Van Cleave has been kind enough to send me an e-mail about the activities of his group, the Virginia Citizens Defense League, which fights restrictions on guns for civilians and is not to be confused with the Virginia Defense Force, the state's unarmed military reserve organization.

    The VCDL has been as organized and active as usual this year. "Pro-gun bills flood General Assembly," the release is headlined.

    The group's Web site states that its rally in Richmond on Martin Luther King Jr. Day was "a stunning success." Some might think it was poor taste to hold it that day, but parking was free around the Capitol and gun-control groups have chosen that day for vigils, etc., so the VCDL apparently wanted its folks to be there too.

    It's amazing how well the VCDL was received in Richmond. In the e-mail, Van Cleave acknowledges how cooperative Capitol police were for allowing members to be admitted by showing their concealed-carry permits. Now, where else would security let people in with guns?

    The VCDL is serving up its usual menu of bills that seek the lifting of controls on carrying concealed weapons just about anywhere. Among their victories in recent years have been to eliminate restrictions in state and national parks, where muggers, rapists and murderers are known to congregate in large numbers.

    By contrast, the perennial gun-control bill that would close the loophole that allows private sales at gun shows without background checks made it out of a Senate committee, but is considered an easy target for pro-gun Republicans in the House of Delegates.

    The VCDL is also chafing against the "onerous" one-gun-a-month purchase restriction in Virginia. This has been a terrible hardship, allowing each gun owner to buy only about 200 handguns since this law went into effect. It's harder to gauge its effect on gangsters who might want to stop off at a store in Virginia and fill up a suitcase with Glocks.

    Also, the much-feared gun seizure by President Obama has not come to pass. Obama has moved boldly and swiftly on a variety of his goals, so it's a mystery as to why he hasn't sent the feds into the South for the mass removal of firearms.

    So the guns seem to be winning and I have even considered joining the crowd and getting a concealed-carry permit. With 160,000 people in the commonwealth now carrying concealed heat, you know there must be a few kooks among that generally law-abiding bunch, and I want to be ready for when I come across one of them.

    Seriously, I worry less these days about muggers and more about running into some wacko with a chip on his shoulder, a pistol legally hidden under his coat and a readiness to provoke someone into giving him an excuse to use it.

    I figure if a robber runs up and sticks a gun in my face and demands my wallet, I will dramatically raise my chances of being killed if I pull out a gun. If I wait until he turns and runs with my money and then shoot him in the back, I've acted as cop, jury, judge and executioner over the loss of a few bucks and a couple of credit cards.

    Many people are carrying guns and have received training on how to use them. A much trickier issue is when to use them.

    Contact Chris Fordney at cfordney@nvdaily.com


  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    Chris Fordney wrote:
    Among their victories in recent years have been to eliminate restrictions in state and national parks, where muggers, rapists and murderers are known to congregate in large numbers.
    Known by whom? Not the police evidently, but maybe Chris Fordney has some special knowledge.

    Many people are carrying guns and have received training on how to use them. A much trickier issue is when to use them.
    Too tricky for Chris Fordney to criticize some particular use but not for this yellow journalist to paint with the broad brush of innuendo and ignorance.

  3. #3
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    See Philip's comments in his most recent alert, posted here:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/21410.html

    I thought about trying to add comments, but didn't even know where to start. Philip has a lot of practice at it.

    TFred

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    Chris Fordney Wrote:
    "So the guns seem to be winning and I have even considered joining the crowd and getting a concealed-carry permit. With 160,000 people in the commonwealth now carrying concealed heat, you know there must be a few kooks among that generally law-abiding bunch, and I want to be ready for when I come across one of them.

    Seriously, I worry less these days about muggers and more about running into some wacko with a chip on his shoulder, a pistol legally hidden under his coat and a readiness to provoke someone into giving him an excuse to use it.

    I figure if a robber runs up and sticks a gun in my face and demands my wallet, I will dramatically raise my chances of being killed if I pull out a gun. If I wait until he turns and runs with my money and then shoot him in the back, I've acted as cop, jury, judge and executioner over the loss of a few bucks and a couple of credit cards."

    I think it is interesting that he concludes that there are 160,000 people carrying. In 2007 there were only 135,000 permit holders. If his numbers are right there have been 25,000 added in just over a year and a half?

    I also think his comments concerning law abiding carriers are way out of line. But what can you expect from a "reporter". I see he has even already decided to join the "be a victim" movement. I wonder why he thinks he will fair better in a confrontation with a criminal than he will with a trained lawful firearms carrier?
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia USA, ,
    Posts
    1,688

    Post imported post

    Another idiot with a pen.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    383

    Post imported post

    I figure if a robber runs up and sticks a gun in my face and demands my wallet, I will dramatically raise my chances of being killed if I pull out a gun. If I wait until he turns and runs with my money and then shoot him in the back, I've acted as cop, jury, judge and executioner over the loss of a few bucks and a couple of credit cards.


    How ironic that he has acted as judge and jury on gun ownership.



  7. #7
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    on a rock in the james river
    Posts
    1,453

    Post imported post




    Posted: Mon Feb 2nd, 2009 05:43 pm

    I figure if a robber runs up and sticks a gun in my face and demands my wallet, I will dramatically raise my chances of being killed if I pull out a gun. If I wait until he turns and runs with my money and then shoot him in the back, I've acted as cop, jury, judge and executioner over the loss of a few bucks and a couple of credit cards.


    How ironic that he has acted as judge and jury on gun ownership.



    +1

    What a strangely written piece. Oddly chaotic.
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

    --Robert A. Heinlein

    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,715

    Post imported post

    riverrat10k wrote:




    What a strangely written piece. Oddly chaotic.
    Good description. The disturbing thing is that he admits toying with the idea of getting a CCW, though its hard to know if he's tongue-in-cheek or not.

    It always surprises me when people like this are willing to expose their embarrassingly twisted and overblown fantasies for all the world to read. Sometimes a little self-censorship is a good thing, Mr. Fordney.

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,619

    Post imported post

    Sent Chris Fordney the following email - not that it will make any difference.

    "It would be nice, even responsible, if you researched your facts. As a group concealed handgun permits holders commit less violent crime than do law enforcement officers. Criminals do not purchase guns from such shows. The so called "loophole" is merely a restriction at one location where a private sale would be regulated - no other location home, backyard or range would be effected. So what is the point? Do you really believe that restricting the rights of honest citizens has any effect on the lawless members of our country? Has any crime ever been prevented by "NO Guns" signs or policies?"

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    Hawkflyer wrote:
    SNIP If his numbers are right there have been 25,000 added in just over a year and a half?
    Well, VCDLhas been pretty successful.

    Plus, all us OCers letting folks know about their rights.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    Posts
    3,806

    Post imported post

    Dear Mr. Fordney,

    Thank you for giving not only myself, but thousands of upstanding law abiding citizens around the state a perfectly good reason to never purchase your company's newspaper now or again.

    I'm sure you do not like spending money on places and things whose purpose in life seems to be to mock, insult, and degrade you, your friends, or your ideals and beliefs. I'm sure you can understand theposition from which I am speaking.

    I will, however, congratulate The Northern Virginia Daily for having enough readers that both you and your editors feel confident in throwing away not only circulation, but advertising dollars. This is especially surprising, considering the number of stories in the last several weeks detailing mass layoffs at various news agencies around the country.

    Kudos to you and your team for for being so successful that throwing away revenue is of no concern. May you continue to be prosperous in the future, where many others in your field appear to be failing.

    In closing, I would like to remind you that it has been said "journalism died in 2008". I would ask that you put down the hammer and nails, and step away from the coffin.

    Sincerely,
    [abno]
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    SNIP If his numbers are right there have been 25,000 added in just over a year and a half?
    Well, VCDLhas been pretty successful.

    Plus, all us OCers letting folks know about their rights.
    I still think his numbers are off. There were less that 10,000 permit holders when "Shall Issue" passed. So from that point until March of 2007 the number of permit holders rose to 132,000 according to the Roanoke Times, who if you will recall published the entire list around that time. But that 132,000 number had been almost stable for about 3 years.

    So here we are not quite 2 years later and we have an increase of 25,000? It might be legit but it still seems a little high.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  13. #13
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671

    Post imported post

    hsmith wrote:
    Another idiot with a pen.
    Maybe they need to start issuing permits for pens....After awriting "competency" class, of course!

    The applicant shall show proof of competence to the court by completing awriting competency class. The class shall include the submission of a writing sample to the court with an emphasis on not writing anything stupid.

    Pens don't write dumb ****, people do.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,619

    Post imported post

    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Citizen wrote:

    I still think his numbers are off. There were less that 10,000 permit holders when "Shall Issue" passed. So from that point until March of 2007 the number of permit holders rose to 132,000 according to the Roanoke Times, who if you will recall published the entire list around that time. But that 132,000 number had been almost stable for about 3 years.

    So here we are not quite 2 years later and we have an increase of 25,000? It might be legit but it still seems a little high.
    Actually, what I have read is that the numbers of permit holders have been rising dramatically. Could not find actually updated figures though so have sent an email to VSP requesting this. Will report findings here.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    Grapeshot wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Citizen wrote:

    I still think his numbers are off. There were less that 10,000 permit holders when "Shall Issue" passed. So from that point until March of 2007 the number of permit holders rose to 132,000 according to the Roanoke Times, who if you will recall published the entire list around that time. But that 132,000 number had been almost stable for about 3 years.

    So here we are not quite 2 years later and we have an increase of 25,000? It might be legit but it still seems a little high.
    Actually, what I have read is that the numbers of permit holders have been rising dramatically. Could not find actually updated figures though so have sent an email to VSP requesting this. Will report findings here.

    Yata hey
    I suppose the number he gave could be right, but it just does not track with growth history in that area. Of course recent events seem to be making a lot of people think that major civil unrest is almost at hand, so ...
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Southeast, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    5,974

    Post imported post

    Reads like the typical pseudo-intellectual liberal drivel. There is no topic on which they will not pontificate sarcastically, endlessly and erroneously.

    AbNo wrote:
    SNIP
    In closing, I would like to remind you that it has been said "journalism died in 2008". I would ask that you put down the hammer and nails, and step away from the coffin.
    Well and cleverly said!!
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  17. #17
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671

    Post imported post

    Grapeshot wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Citizen wrote:

    I still think his numbers are off. There were less that 10,000 permit holders when "Shall Issue" passed. So from that point until March of 2007 the number of permit holders rose to 132,000 according to the Roanoke Times, who if you will recall published the entire list around that time. But that 132,000 number had been almost stable for about 3 years.

    So here we are not quite 2 years later and we have an increase of 25,000? It might be legit but it still seems a little high.
    Actually, what I have read is that the numbers of permit holders have been rising dramatically. Could not find actually updated figures though so have sent an email to VSP requesting this. Will report findings here.

    Yata hey

    Knowing how many students our company alone has taught in 2008, I think those numbers may be fairly accurate.

    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  18. #18
    Regular Member nemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Winchester, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    272

    Post imported post

    Sheriff wrote:
    Not true. He has acted as civilian, judge and executioner. There is a difference. He will be arrested. Once the threat is over, a civilian can't shoot a man in the back.
    Cops are civilians, too, but I get your point. But I always get my dander up at the erroneous concept that you implied: a "non-cop" cannot take the law into his own hands. The only reason that cops are legally allowed to do some things and that "non-cops" are not is that our legislators, i.e., the representatives of THE PEOPLE, have decreed this to be so, and we, THE PEOPLE, have not (yet) objected.

    The law IS in our hands, and it always has been. Law enforcement is not something that citizens seize from the police. It is a societal function that citizens delegate TO the police. In doing so, we do NOT abdicate our own sovereignty nor our duties as citizens. When the police we collectively hire are either unwilling or unable to perform that function at the critical moment, there is no law or standard that says we cannot perform it for ourselves. Indeed, when personally threatened, we will likely have no choice!

    [size=Rant off. I now return you to the regular thread.

    ][/size]

    [size=][/size]

    [size=Oh. I should add that I do NOT advocate, as the above statement might seem to imply, that I would shoot the VCA in the back. I will certainly attempt to shoot him in the front. I do not need a judge or jury to know what to do with thugs.][/size]

    [size=][/size]





  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,715

    Post imported post

    http://www.legallyarmed.com/ccw_statistics.htm

    Check the VA section here. This source says there were over 137,000 active permits as of Nov 2006! We all know there has been a significant increase since then. I recall reading somewhere that the number is now well over 150,000, but I can't cite the source.

    In any event, blood hasn't been running in the streets, permit holders haven't been shooting others in the back, and weenie journalists still publish their overwrought fantasies. Pretty much business as usual.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    Posts
    3,806

    Post imported post

    deepdiver wrote:
    Reads like the typical pseudo-intellectual liberal drivel. There is no topic on which they will not pontificate sarcastically, endlessly and erroneously.

    AbNo wrote:
    SNIP
    In closing, I would like to remind you that it has been said "journalism died in 2008". I would ask that you put down the hammer and nails, and step away from the coffin.
    Well and cleverly said!!
    Did I mention I CC'd a couple of their other contact emails?
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  21. #21
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    And don't forget, largely thanks to such fine anti-gun organizations as the Free Lance-Star (and other reasons too...), there are many Virginia residents who have decided to obtain Utah permits instead of Virginia permits.

    Utah permits do not show up in the reports, because they have wisely protected their permit-holder information from public release. Obviously, since the training is limited to certified instructors, and there are only so many of those in this area, we aren't talking thousands per year, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were in the hundreds per year, state wide.

    TFred


  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,619

    Post imported post

    How is this for a rapid response from the VSP!
    The numbers speak loudly for themselves! :celebrate

    Yata hey
    __________________________________________________ _____________________

    Dear Sir,

    The following information is provided in response to your request, and pursuant to the provisions of the Virginia Freedom of Information Act.

    1) Total number of concealed handgun permits (CHP)issued to residents of Va. as of latest available date.


    Number of active CHP as of February 2, 2009 = 175,338

    2) Percentage increase from one year prior in issuance of these CHPs.


    Number CHP issued 2008 = 55,864 (increase of 34.7%)

    Number CHP issued 2007 = 41,472

    3) Total number of non-resident CHPs issued.


    Total nonresident permits issued as of today = 2,597

    I trust this information will be of assistance to you.


    Sincerely,

    Donna K. Tate, Manager
    Firearms Transaction Center
    Virginia Department of State Police
    Tel: (804) 674-2210
    Fax: (804) 674-2791
    Email: mail to Donna.Tate@vsp.virginia.gov
    Website:http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961

    Post imported post

    Sheriff wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    If I wait until he turns and runs with my money and then shoot him in the back, I've acted as cop, jury, judge and executioner over the loss of a few bucks and a couple of credit cards.

    Not true. He has acted as civilian, judge and executioner. There is a difference.

    He will be arrested. Once the threat is over, a civilian can't shoot a man in the back.


    I don't know Sheriff. IIRC didn't the Ice Cream Man getaway with such a shooting without being prosecuted in Richmond?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  24. #24
    Regular Member Bubba Ron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Virginia Beach, , USA
    Posts
    883

    Post imported post

    I agree with nemo "Cops are civilians too" - our law enforcement community is becoming more "military-like" and less "protect and serve" every year....a trend that needs to be reversed in my opinion.We are citizens and community members, just like the police.

    nemo wrote:
    Sheriff wrote:
    Not true. He has acted as civilian, judge and executioner. There is a difference. He will be arrested. Once the threat is over, a civilian can't shoot a man in the back.
    Cops are civilians, too, but I get your point. But I always get my dander up at the erroneous concept that you implied: a "non-cop" cannot take the law into his own hands. The only reason that cops are legally allowed to do some things and that "non-cops" are not is that our legislators, i.e., the representatives of THE PEOPLE, have decreed this to be so, and we, THE PEOPLE, have not (yet) objected.

    The law IS in our hands, and it always has been. Law enforcement is not something that citizens seize from the police. It is a societal function that citizens delegate TO the police. In doing so, we do NOT abdicate our own sovereignty nor our duties as citizens. When the police we collectively hire are either unwilling or unable to perform that function at the critical moment, there is no law or standard that says we cannot perform it for ourselves. Indeed, when personally threatened, we will likely have no choice!

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia USA, ,
    Posts
    1,688

    Post imported post

    Grapeshot wrote:
    How is this for a rapid response from the VSP!
    The numbers speak loudly for themselves! :celebrate

    Yata hey
    __________________________________________________ _____________________

    Dear Sir,

    The following information is provided in response to your request, and pursuant to the provisions of the Virginia Freedom of Information Act.

    1) Total number of concealed handgun permits (CHP)issued to residents of Va. as of latest available date.


    Number of active CHP as of February 2, 2009 = 175,338

    2) Percentage increase from one year prior in issuance of these CHPs.


    Number CHP issued 2008 = 55,864 (increase of 34.7%)

    Number CHP issued 2007 = 41,472

    3) Total number of non-resident CHPs issued.


    Total nonresident permits issued as of today = 2,597

    I trust this information will be of assistance to you.


    Sincerely,

    Donna K. Tate, Manager
    Firearms Transaction Center
    Virginia Department of State Police
    Tel: (804) 674-2210
    Fax: (804) 674-2791
    Email: mail to Donna.Tate@vsp.virginia.gov
    Website:http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm
    Number CHP issued 2008 = 55,864 (increase of 34.7%)

    :what:

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •