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Thread: LTCF age requirements

  1. #1
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    Hi all!

    I'm currently 17 (will be 18 in a few months) and i have every intention of purchasing, training with, andopencarrying a sidearm once i save up enough money, decide which model to buy, and sign up for a training course or two, once I turn 18.

    However, I have a question which i can't seem to find a straight answer for. I've searched and all i can find is that you have to be 21 in PA to get a CCW, and several hints that you have to be 21 to get a LTCF. So, my question is; do I really have to wait until I am 21 before i can legally carry a loaded pistol in my vehicle, other than to and from ranges and the like?

    btw, i don't know if it matters, but i live in York county.

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    The law prohibits you from purchasing a firearm from an FFL (dealer) and applying for a LTCF until you are 21, so other than the listed exemptions, you will not be able to carry a firearm in a vehicle (alone). The best you might hope for is to have a licensed person (of age) who can take possession of the firearm between stops.

    There is no "CCW" in Pa., only a LTCF.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    Another problem in PA is that all handgun transactions have to go through an FFL. So, you cannot legally obtain your own handgun in PA until you are 21.
    No. There is a family member transfer exception, and intestate transfer exception, plus you can move into PA with your handgun at age 18. Finally, PA law does not make it unlawful to receive a handgun at age 18 - just to transfer one to someone under 21, absent an exception.

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    Mike wrote:
    NavyLT wrote:
    Another problem in PA is that all handgun transactions have to go through an FFL. So, you cannot legally obtain your own handgun in PA until you are 21.
    No. There is a family member transfer exception, and intestate transfer exception, plus you can move into PA with your handgun at age 18. Finally, PA law does not make it unlawful to receive a handgun at age 18 - just to transfer one to someone under 21, absent an exception.
    Also, Pa. Sheriffs are empowered to do transfers, but few do. The wording of the statute says "shall", so compelling a Sheriff to do this would make an interesting case.

    §6111. Sale or transfer of firearms.
    (c) Duty of other persons.-Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sher*iff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild.

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    thanks for the info guys!

    so, i can't legally purchase a firearm from a legaldealer, until i'm 21, unless i get an out of state LTCF?

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    ddog101775 wrote:
    thanks for the info guys!

    so, i can't legally purchase a firearm from a legaldealer, until i'm 21, unless i get an out of state LTCF?
    LTCF has nothing to do with purchases. LTCFs (in PA) are for carrying concealed or in vehicles.

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    Mike wrote:
    ddog101775 wrote:
    thanks for the info guys!

    so, i can't legally purchase a firearm from a legaldealer, until i'm 21, unless i get an out of state LTCF?
    LTCF has nothing to do with purchases. LTCFs (in PA) are for carrying concealed or in vehicles.
    oh yeah. sorry, i meant that i can't carry in a vehicle until i'm 21, unless i get an out of state LTCF. and no matter what i do i can't purchase a firearm from a dealer until i'm 21.

    are both of those statements correct?

    oh, and sorry about all of the pesky questions, i'm just having trouble getting clear answers from other places.

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    ddog101775 wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    ddog101775 wrote:
    thanks for the info guys!

    so, i can't legally purchase a firearm from a legaldealer, until i'm 21, unless i get an out of state LTCF?
    LTCF has nothing to do with purchases. LTCFs (in PA) are for carrying concealed or in vehicles.
    oh yeah. sorry, i meant that i can't carry in a vehicle until i'm 21, unless i get an out of state LTCF. and no matter what i do i can't purchase a firearm from a dealer until i'm 21.

    are both of those statements correct?

    oh, and sorry about all of the pesky questions, i'm just having trouble getting clear answers from other places.
    Have you read the Uniform Firearms Act? There are some exceptions you should become familiar with.

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    i have "skimmed" through the Uniform Firearms Act, but never actually sat down and read the whole thing, mainly because i get a migraine trying to interpret what everything means.

    the only exceptions i was aware of were for constables, sheriffs, members of the armed serviceswhile onduty (or something like that), pretty much anyonegiven afirearm by the federal or state government,sportsmen while hunting, and i think target shooters if they're transporting their firearms to or from a competition.

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    ok, so i've decided to revive this topic (if that's not allowed then i apologize) because i think i've managed to (with the help and advice from the people who responded to this topic) find the answers to all of my questions. i'm going to post everything i've found (including stuff that's already been posted in thisthread, just to make it a little easier to read)and if any of it is wrong, please do correct me. i will apologize in advance for not thanking each person individually for your incredibly helpful posts, but i give a collective THANK YOU to everyone on these forums for posting helpful information of all kinds and an additional THANK YOU to those who were kind enough to respond to my pesky questions.

    ok, for starters, due to federal law,i can't purchase a firearm from an ffl until i'm 21. However, I can purchase, or receive, a firearm from my parents or grandparents, with no required paperwork, at age 18. also at age 18, i can purchasea handgun (not sureabout laws for long guns)from anyone who legally possesses a handgun and wishes to sell it, provided that the sale goes through a sheriff (i'm not really sure how one would go about doing this, but my guess would be to contact a local sheriff and go from there). ok, so that's what i've got as far as aquiring a firearm at age 18 in PA. oh, and it is legal to possess afirearm at 18 in PA.

    now onto aquiring a CCW. So, rather than looking for a way to get a PA LTCF at 18 (which i don't think is possible, as far as i can tell, there are exemptions for needing an LTCF, but not for getting one), i searched states that had a reciprocity agreement with PA, and allowed non-residents, at age 18, to apply for a CCW. i believe 21 states have a reciprocity agreement with PA. of those 21 states, the number of states, that i found,that issued non-resident permits for citizens 18 or older was a staggering number of 1; North Dakota. the guidelines for aquiring a non-resident permit issued by North Dakota is here: http://www.ag.nd.gov/bci/CW/ObtainPermit.htm

    so, for those who know the law better than me, am i missing anything? is anything posted above wrong? any questions?

    oh, and sorry for the long post.

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    A "sportman's firearm permit" (see Section 6106(c)) seems to be what you want at this time. It does not grant CC privileges, but will allow you to carry a handgun in a vehicle while hunting, fishing, etc. In addition, no one would suffer legal consequences for loaning you a firearm.

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    ne1 wrote:
    A "sportman's firearm permit" (see Section 6106(c)) seems to be what you want at this time. It does not grant CC privileges, but will allow you to carry a handgun in a vehicle while hunting, fishing, etc. In addition, no one would suffer legal consequences for loaning you a firearm.
    i couldn't find any clear information (that cited sources from pa law) that stated how a sportsman's permit works. the nra says that sportsman's firearm permit is only good when hunting, fishing, or trapping, but after spending some time looking, i didn't see where that's stated in the PA uniform firearms act.

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    The Sportsmans Firearms Permit is issued by County Treasurers on the spot. You must show a hunting, furtakers or fishing license to the treasurer. The fee was 7 or 8 dollars, IIRC. It is good for 5 years.

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    PA Shooter wrote:
    The Sportsmans Firearms Permit is issued by County Treasurers on the spot. You must show a hunting, furtakers or fishing license to the treasurer. The fee was 7 or 8 dollars, IIRC. It is good for 5 years.
    my trouble isn't how to aquire one, or the price, my trouble is that the nra says a sportsman's permit is only good for hunting, fishing, or trapping, but i didn't find anything from pa law that states how a sportsman's permit can be used.

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    ddog101775 wrote:
    PA Shooter wrote:
    The Sportsmans Firearms Permit is issued by County Treasurers on the spot. You must show a hunting, furtakers or fishing license to the treasurer. The fee was 7 or 8 dollars, IIRC. It is good for 5 years.
    my trouble isn't how to aquire one, or the price, my trouble is that the nra says a sportsman's permit is only good for hunting, fishing, or trapping, but i didn't find anything from pa law that states how a sportsman's permit can be used.
    A Sportsman's Permit is an exceptionto the law requiring a license to carry firearms. It allows the person to carry conealed on or about their person or in a vehicle whilehunting, fishing or trapping, going to or coming from those places where they will hunt, fish or trap.


    § 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
    (a) Offense defined.--
    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who
    carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a
    firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place
    of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and
    lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony
    of the third degree.
    (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a
    valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any
    vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or
    about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place
    of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and
    has not committed any other criminal violation commits a
    misdemeanor of the first degree.


    (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not
    apply to:
    (9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in
    this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting,
    taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or
    are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take
    furbearers or fish or returning from such places.
    (10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually
    training dogs during the regular training season.



    (c) Sportsman's firearm permit.--
    (1) Before any exception shall be granted under
    paragraph (b)(9) or (10) of this section to any person 18
    years of age or older licensed to hunt, trap or fish or who
    has been issued a permit relating to hunting dogs, such
    person shall, at the time of securing his hunting, furtaking
    or fishing license or any time after such license has been
    issued, secure a sportsman's firearm permit from the county
    treasurer. The sportsman's firearm permit shall be issued
    immediately and be valid throughout this Commonwealth for a
    period of five years from the date of issue for any legal
    firearm, when carried in conjunction with a valid hunting,
    furtaking or fishing license or permit relating to hunting
    dogs. The sportsman's firearm permit shall be in triplicate
    on a form to be furnished by the Pennsylvania State Police.
    The original permit shall be delivered to the person, and the
    first copy thereof, within seven days, shall be forwarded to
    the Commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police by the
    county treasurer. The second copy shall be retained by the
    county treasurer for a period of two years from the date of
    expiration. The county treasurer shall be entitled to collect
    a fee of not more than $6 for each such permit issued, which
    shall include the cost of any official form. The Pennsylvania
    State Police may recover from the county treasurer the cost
    of any such form, but may not charge more than $1 for each
    official permit form furnished to the county treasurer.



  16. #16
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    ddog,

    A permit from ANY state will allow you to carry your handgun in a vehicle in Pa.
    Pa. recognizes the permits of all 50 states for open/concealed carry in vehicles.


    Title 18
    §6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
    Exception #11

    Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle which, person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.


    ~~Springfield
    ETA

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    ne1 wrote:
    A "sportman's firearm permit" (see Section 6106(c)) seems to be what you want at this time. It does not grant CC privileges, but will allow you to carry a handgun in a vehicle while hunting, fishing, etc. In addition, no one would suffer legal consequences for loaning you a firearm.
    I was going to argue this point but upon reflection, I think a Sportsman's Firearms Permit" is a license "to carry a firearm under section 6109," 6109(c) as you point out. How very interesting - so it would appear that all a 18-20 year old would have to do to immunize a loaner of a handgun to him is to have the permit at the time of the loan!

    --

    § 6115. Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited.
    1. Offense defined. -- No person shall make any loan secured by mortgage, deposit or pledge of a firearm, nor, except as provided in subsection (b), shall any person lend or give a firearm to another or otherwise deliver a firearm contrary to the provisions of this subchapter.
    2. Exception. --
      1. Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the following apply:
        1. The person who receives the firearm is licensed to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to licenses). . . .

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