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Thread: Shoulder hosters - OC legal?

  1. #1
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    Hello all, I am new to opencarry.com....

    I currently live in Colorado (I'm originally from Santa Ynez - it's in Santa Barbara County, CA), and I'm trying to move to LA, as I am in the process of applying at LASD.

    Now, don't anybody get their defenses up, I wholeheartedly support the second amendment and gun rights, and I hate the current restrictions on law-abiding citizens. I come from a long line of second-amendment LEO, and I think that IF I am accepted to the department I will be in a place to help out all of you who carry legally.

    My question is: I don't like to travel unprotected - here in Colorado we can have a fully loaded gun in the car as long as there is no round in the chamber, and we can carry fully loaded. When I come out to LA for the testing process I'd like to bring my trusty .32 auto.... however, I only have a 1915 military style holster for it, and it has a button-down flap that covers the gun. I would suppose this would be considered concealed, even if carried openly on my belt.... any thoughts?

    I also have a very nice shoulder rig for the same gun, which I prefer as I can draw faster than from any type of belt holster. Are shoulder holsters legal for open carry? A thought.... it does attach to my belt at the bottom, don't know if this would fit into the 'openly carried belt holster' provision.

    Any thoughts/suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated...



    Thank you all for your continued perserverance and diligence in supporting open carry - I hope in the future to be able to support you as a law enforcement officer.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Yes, shoulder holsters are legal for open carry, just don't put your jacket on over it.

    The "Openly Carried in a belt holster" listed in the Penal Code is an example, it is not a defining requirement listing the only way to open carry.

    Keep asking the questions.

  3. #3
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    The law allowing open carry reads:
    Code:
    Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed
    within the meaning of this section.
    This text is in the concealed weapons section of the penal code. So are shoulder holsters legal? The law doesn't say. Are thigh holsters legal? The law doesn't say. It just says belt holsters.

    I wouldn't carry in anything other than a belt holster until we make some headway in terms of legal victories. But that's just me. If you are going to carry in a shoulder holster, at least don't cover it up. If it isn't visible you have a greater burden placed upon yourself to show that you were openly carrying.

  4. #4
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    If your looking to join a CA dept. steer clear of OC until you've been hired and are through the probationary period. It is more important to get you on the force as a friendly leo then for you to be OCing right now as an activist.

    I know, it's for self defense but do you want to get this job?

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    Thank you all for your replies, you've been very helpful.

    Cato, in respose to your advice not to carry until hired... that has been also my leaning. I wasn't exactly planning on open carry while in LA this March... however I am going to apply what I've learned about legal unloaded OC to driving in the state. I mostly wanted to know what my options were, IF, for some reason, I felt I absolutely had to carry my sidearm while outside my vehicle. It's been a number of years since I was even IN LA, and if I happened to park my dumb !$&*# in the wrong neighborhood where I happened to be in danger, I wanted to know my legal recourses.

    However, unless I do feel greatly threatened in LA, which I doubt and hope, I won't OC. It would most likely be detrimental to the hiring process, and I don't want that. And I'm sure you all would love to have some more gun rights LEO.

    Thank you all, and just to clarify.... an unloaded handgun, with a loaded clip unattached, can be in an unconcealed belt holster or on the seat and/or dash of my car, whilst I am in it, and be legal? As long as I am not driving through a restricted school zone of course.

    I also acquired (finally - my gun is a 1915 Astra and is impossible to find a holster for) a good, uncovered, belt holster. It has a magazine pouch on the front of the holster (in front of the slide), separate from the gun of course, with a little velcro strap to hold the magazine in. Legal? Or does the mag have to be on my opposite hip?



  6. #6
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    (double post deleted)

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    fighting_for_freedom wrote:
    It has a magazine pouch on the front of the holster (in front of the slide), separate from the gun of course, with a little velcro strap to hold the magazine in. Legal? Or does the mag have to be on my opposite hip?
    From what I read in the Orange County and other training bulletins, it questioned weather even tapping the magazine to the gun itself would be considered breaking the "unloaded" law. The codes specifically state that a magazine with bullets in it must be "attached" to the firearm in a position that it can fire.

    (Quote) PC 12031 (g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.

    **Case law now states the ammunition MUST be in a position from which it can be fired. People vs. Clark (1996) 45 Cal.App.4th 1147 (Un-Quote)

    The general consensus on this board has been to keep the magazines in a separate pouch than the firearm to be the safest, but people have successfully carried in a holster as you describe.

    The question is, how much do you want to push it?


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    I don't really want to push the issue, at least not at the moment, and at the risk of jeopordizing my chances of being hired by LASD. So I suppose, at least for the time being, I'll have to get a separate mag holster for my belt.

    If it were not for the fact that I am trying to join law enforcement, I would wholeheartedly carry in a shoulder holster or in my belt holster with the mag in it. I thoroughly believe in excercising my rights, and if I have to risk being arrested or charged for doing such, even withinthe constitutional and legal boundaries, I will gladly sacrifice the freedom that too many of us (myself included) take for granted.

    Our country was founded by people who fought oppression and boldly took their rights. I wish to be among those of us today who will not back down and forfeit the freedoms that our forefathers gave their lives to establish.

    But, for the time being, I may have to lay low and not push the envelope. As Cato put it a couple of posts earlier, I'm of more use as a pro-gun rights SD than as a radical private citizen.

    _________________________

    I would rather die free than to live oppressed.

  9. #9
    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    fighting_for_freedom wrote:
    ...here in Colorado we can have a fully loaded gun in the car as long as there is no round in the chamber, and we can carry fully loaded.
    I know you are asking about Calif. law but I thought I would clear something up for you regarding Colo law. You can carry a handgun in your vehicle however you want, concealed, unconcealed, loaded or unloaded, chambered or whatever - no permit required.....the empty chamber requirement is only for long guns.
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

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    Really? I could swear you couldn't have a bullet in the chamber for handguns also.... I was once pulled over for speeding a little and the State Patrol noticed I had my Colt .45 Single Action, my .32, and my MK2 all sitting on the passenger seat and asked if they were loaded. I said yes, and he asked if there was a bullet in the chamber, to which I said no and readily handed him the guns one by one so he could see for himself. He checked them all out and seemed perfectly satisfied so I never gave it another moments thought. Unless he was either unaware of the law or was simply trying to push it, which rarely happens out here as far as firearms rights go, I'd think he'd know what he was talking about.

    But then again I could be wrong. Interesting point you make, shows how carefully I try to stick to the law in this aspect. Although I doubt I would ever drive with a round chambered: safety and whatnot.

    But valuable info nonetheless! Just in case I ever forget to clear the chamber and get pulled over...

  11. #11
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    PikesPeakMtnMan wrote:
    You can carry a handgun in your vehicle however you want, concealed, unconcealed, loaded or unloaded, chambered or whatever - no permit required.....the empty chamber requirement is only for long guns.
    I just checked the Colorado Statutes relating to transportation of firearms, and yes you are correct. I cannot believe I never noticed that before. Now I feel kinda dumb.....



  12. #12
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    Just a thought.... do we have any OCers who live or work in the vicinity of LASD's Star Center Academy? I'm going to be in LA March 27-29, and I'll be over at the Academy for the majority of that time.

    That being said, if anyone wants a free lunch or cup of coffee, and you live near there, or between there and Sunset Blvd. (which is where my friend live whom I'll be staying with), I'd be happy to take them out to eat and talk about OC.



    Any takers? Leave a message on the board or PM me.

  13. #13
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    You should be fine with the magazine in a flap on the holster. People v. Clark ruled that the ammo needs to be in a place where it can be fired. In that case a person with shotgun shells on the buttstock of a shotgun was charged with carrying a loaded weapon, but the courts ruled that it wasn't loaded since the ammo wasn't in a place where it could be fired. So you can put velcro on the grip of your firearm and velcro your magazine to it and you'd be fine (except getting the mag in the gun with the velcro might be insanely hard to do).

  14. #14
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    Haha... thanks, that definitely clarifies it for me. I'm considering carrying in my shoulder holster while driving... more comfortable, accessible and visible.

    But if I do decide to OC out of my vehicle I will definitely carry in mybelt holster... don't want to push the definitions of acceptable OC holsters too far just yet....





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