Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: IMMEDIATE ACTION ALERT 2-3-09

  1. #1
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622

    Post imported post

    From VCDL:

    URGENT ACTION ITEM BELOW:

    Senator Marsh's gun show bill, SB 1257, was brought back from the dead
    by Senator Colgan (Democrat - Manassas), who claimed to have voted
    against the bill by mistake and wanted to change his vote. That
    opened the door for Senator Marsh to ask that his bill be passed by
    for the day.

    Senator Marsh is probably looking to water down his bill in hopes that
    he can get enough votes to pass it tomorrow 2/4/08

    URGENT ACTION ITEM

    We all need to contact our Senators and ask them to not support SB
    1257, even if it gets watered down. We must do this NOW, the vote
    could be tomorrow (Wednesday, Feb 3rd).

    To send a message to your Senator, click here (both links go to the
    same place):

    http://www2.vcdl.org/cgi-bin/wspd_cg...RE=09-SB1257-3

    http://tinyurl.com/bgbk9y

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    Per the e-mail alerts I've received today, "tomorrow" would mean Weds Feb 4.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    Per the e-mail alerts I've received today, "tomorrow" would mean Weds Feb 4.
    Edited to clarify the date. Thanks.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Accomac, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,213

    Post imported post

    I have sent the message. Since the Senator for Norfolk, Eastern Shore and part of VA Beach Ralph Northam,voted incorrectly to begin with I hold no hope.And in all communications I have had with him he is wrong on this, and all other 2A issues.


    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    199

    Post imported post

    Done as soon as I received the email.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    100

    Post imported post

    EMAIL SENT!!!!

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    , District Of Columbia, USA
    Posts
    4

    Post imported post

    I sent some too. They won't listen but hey I am right next door.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Yorktown, VA, ,
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    Complete

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    Message sent.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622

    Post imported post

    Snake Doctor wrote:
    I sent some too. They won't listen but hey I am right next door.
    Welcome aboard - appreciate the support.

    Cross over the border and OC like it was meant to be - a right exercised in Va.

    Enjoy a dinner with fellow OCers in NOVA or attend a VCDL (http://www.vcdl.org/) meeting in Allendale.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    Grapeshot wrote:
    Snake Doctor wrote:
    I sent some too. They won't listen but hey I am right next door.
    Welcome aboard - appreciate the support.

    Cross over the border and OC like it was meant to be - a right exercised in Va.

    Enjoy a dinner with fellow OCers in NOVA or attend a VCDL (http://www.vcdl.org/) meeting in Allendale.

    Yata hey
    Welcome, SnakeDoc!!!

    Grapeshot's messin' up a little bit this evening. He meant to say come enjoy the fellowship at the VCDL meeting in Annandale. :P

    (And no, I ain't apologizing, neither. )
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622

    Post imported post

    Citizen wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Snake Doctor wrote:
    I sent some too. They won't listen but hey I am right next door.
    Welcome aboard - appreciate the support.

    Cross over the border and OC like it was meant to be - a right exercised in Va.

    Enjoy a dinner with fellow OCers in NOVA or attend a VCDL (http://www.vcdl.org/) meeting in Allendale.

    Yata hey
    Welcome, SnakeDoc!!!

    Grapeshot's messin' up a little bit this evening. He meant to say come enjoy the fellowship at the VCDL meeting in Annandale. :P

    (And no, I ain't apologizing, neither. )
    Pssst - look behind you.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    100

    Post imported post

    canvas bag filled with small projectiles

  14. #14
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    on a rock in the james river
    Posts
    1,453

    Post imported post

    Sent letters to Sen. Watkins. He is a Repub. but seems to vote wrong on 2A bills.
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

    --Robert A. Heinlein

    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    348

    Post imported post

    done.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    I just got off the phone with the Senator George Barkers assistant. While sh could not say which way he planned to vote (he is a Dem so I think I know) she did say that she would convey my thoughts to him and would suggest he call me personally as I had some ideas that she thought he should discuss with me.

    What was the great idea you might ask. Well it isn't mine. I suggested they kill SB 1257, and replace it with something useful.

    My suggestion would be a voluntary provision that would ALLOW a private citizen to contact the Virginia State Police to run a VOLUNTARY check on a buyer in a private transaction. This legislation would not require checks for personal transactions nor would there be any penalty for not doing them. It would only authorize the VSP to participate in providing checks for private individuals and authorize the system for paying for the checks via credit card. The decision to either perform the check or not would rest solely with the individuals involved in the transaction.

    If there was such a service available I would use it. But right now a private individual cannot have a check performed.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,000

    Post imported post

    Hawkflyer wrote:
    I just got off the phone with the Senator George Barkers assistant. While sh could not say which way he planned to vote (he is a Dem so I think I know) she did say that she would convey my thoughts to him and would suggest he call me personally as I had some ideas that she thought he should discuss with me.

    What was the great idea you might ask. Well it isn't mine. I suggested they kill SB 1257, and replace it with something useful.

    My suggestion would be a voluntary provision that would ALLOW a private citizen to contact the Virginia State Police to run a VOLUNTARY check on a buyer in a private transaction. This legislation would not require checks for personal transactions nor would there be any penalty for not doing them. It would only authorize the VSP to participate in providing checks for private individuals and authorize the system for paying for the checks via credit card. The decision to either perform the check or not would rest solely with the individuals involved in the transaction.

    If there was such a service available I would use it. But right now a private individual cannot have a check performed.
    I could support such a provision and I suspect a lot of honest everyday folks would too. Especially honest above board buyers. There's peace of mind to be had assuming you trust that check to be accurate.

    I too believe the government should not be involved in citizen-to-citizen / private transactions of any kind unless both parties wish the government to be involved for THAT TRANSACTION. Ya know, the government to provide a helping hand when requested but otherwise stays the hell out.

  18. #18
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    darthmord wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    I just got off the phone with the Senator George Barkers assistant. While sh could not say which way he planned to vote (he is a Dem so I think I know) she did say that she would convey my thoughts to him and would suggest he call me personally as I had some ideas that she thought he should discuss with me.

    What was the great idea you might ask. Well it isn't mine. I suggested they kill SB 1257, and replace it with something useful.

    My suggestion would be a voluntary provision that would ALLOW a private citizen to contact the Virginia State Police to run a VOLUNTARY check on a buyer in a private transaction. This legislation would not require checks for personal transactions nor would there be any penalty for not doing them. It would only authorize the VSP to participate in providing checks for private individuals and authorize the system for paying for the checks via credit card. The decision to either perform the check or not would rest solely with the individuals involved in the transaction.

    If there was such a service available I would use it. But right now a private individual cannot have a check performed.
    I could support such a provision and I suspect a lot of honest everyday folks would too. Especially honest above board buyers. There's peace of mind to be had assuming you trust that check to be accurate.

    I too believe the government should not be involved in citizen-to-citizen / private transactions of any kind unless both parties wish the government to be involved for THAT TRANSACTION. Ya know, the government to provide a helping hand when requested but otherwise stays the hell out.
    I think that before I could support a voluntary background check like this, I would want to add some requirements to the implementation of the law that reinforce the voluntary nature of the check.

    First, specify signage of a certain size and text that states the voluntary nature, and second, both parties must sign a form provided by the state agent performing that check that clearly states everyone understands that the check is entirely voluntary on the part of both parties of the transaction.

    Otherwise, I could easily see the existence of a "background check booth" getting abused by overzealous LEOs on site at a gun show.

    I agree that there may be some usefulness in providing such a service, as long as it is never confused about being entirely voluntary in nature.

    On the down side, once they put in the infrastructure for a voluntary check, all you have to do is add two letters to make it involuntary. There is something to be said for that as well.

    TFred

  19. #19
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Newport News, VA, ,
    Posts
    1,586

    Post imported post

    SB 1257 is dead, again!
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  20. #20
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    856

    Post imported post

    Hawkflyer wrote:
    My suggestion would be a voluntary provision that would ALLOW a private citizen to contact the Virginia State Police to run a VOLUNTARY check on a buyer in a private transaction. This legislation would not require checks for personal transactions nor would there be any penalty for not doing them. It would only authorize the VSP to participate in providing checks for private individuals and authorize the system for paying for the checks via credit card. The decision to either perform the check or not would rest solely with the individuals involved in the transaction.

    If there was such a service available I would use it. But right now a private individual cannot have a check performed.
    At first blush, this sounds like a great idea. As I start to think about it, I wonder about the following scenario:

    Voluntary checks are available through the VSP. You choose not to take advantage of that for a private sale. The buyer, while seeming to be above-board and responsible, is actually a felon, unbeknownst to you. He later uses that gun in the commission of a murder, and is eventually caught and sent to jail for a very long time.

    Unfortunately for you, the victim's family now comes after you, since you had a way to ensure your gun didn't end up in the hands of a felon, but you neglegently (they allege) didn't use it. If you'd been a responsible citizen, they claim, their relative would still be alive today. And so on and so forth.

    I don't know, maybe I'm too cynical, but I have to wonder if such a thing could be turned against us. Maybe on the whole it would still be better than what we have now, but I think we have to consider the downsides, too.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    830

    Post imported post

    2a4all wrote:
    SB 1257 is dead, again!
    defeated 19-21 2/4/09

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    TFred wrote:
    darthmord wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    ...SNIP
    My suggestion would be a voluntary provision that would ALLOW a private citizen to contact the Virginia State Police to run a VOLUNTARY check on a buyer in a private transaction. This legislation would not require checks for personal transactions nor would there be any penalty for not doing them. It would only authorize the VSP to participate in providing checks for private individuals and authorize the system for paying for the checks via credit card. The decision to either perform the check or not would rest solely with the individuals involved in the transaction.

    If there was such a service available I would use it. But right now a private individual cannot have a check performed.
    I could support such a provision and I suspect a lot of honest everyday folks would too. Especially honest above board buyers. There's peace of mind to be had assuming you trust that check to be accurate.

    I too believe the government should not be involved in citizen-to-citizen / private transactions of any kind unless both parties wish the government to be involved for THAT TRANSACTION. Ya know, the government to provide a helping hand when requested but otherwise stays the hell out.

    I think that before I could support a voluntary background check like this, I would want to add some requirements to the implementation of the law that reinforce the voluntary nature of the check.

    First, specify signage of a certain size and text that states the voluntary nature, and second, both parties must sign a form provided by the state agent performing that check that clearly states everyone understands that the check is entirely voluntary on the part of both parties of the transaction.

    SNIP...
    TFred
    I think you may not have the actual nature of this in mind. This would not be specific to gun shows. This would all be done on the phone, just like a dealer does it now. Perhaps if a larger gun show had a booth for the VSP like some do, then it might be done in person. But what I had in mind was a phone call to the VSP, they give the cleared response, and any fees are passed on to the seller just as they are by a dealer. No records kept, no tracking done, and all voluntary on the part of the participants. Now for my part, if I want to do the check and the buyer says no... well he can just buy someplace else because he is hiding something.

    VSP. You choose not to take advantage of that for a private sale. The buyer, while seeming to be above-board and responsible, is actually a felon, unbeknownst to you. He later uses that gun in the commission of a murder, and is eventually caught and sent to jail for a very long time.

    Unfortunately for you, the victim's family now comes after you, since you had a way to ensure your gun didn't end up in the hands of a felon, but you neglegently (they allege) didn't use it. If you'd been a responsible citizen, they claim, their relative would still be alive today. And so on and so forth.

    I don't know, maybe I'm too cynical, but I have to wonder if such a thing could be turned against us. Maybe on the whole it would still be better than what we have now, but I think we have to consider the downsides, too.
    [/quote]
    It is not too cynical, but first off they would have to trace the gun back to you. In a lot of cases there are no records to do that with. You sold the gun sure, but to who? there is no record that you sold it to the Bad Guy. Second there are no records kept on the VSP check. SO how would anyone know you either did or did not run the check?

    While I see your point, the whole idea is to make this no more traceable than the current instant check system, and at the same time open it up so private citizens can use the system. In my view this helps meet the goal of keeping firearms in lawful hands. Is it another law? Yes. But this time it is aimed at opening up a State police process for use by citizens, it is NOT aimed at the citizens or their firearms.

    In fact this kind of law supports what we as gun owners have been saying for years. "Target the people, not the guns".




    In any case I see we won the first round and defeated SB 1257. Lets see what happens next.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    199

    Post imported post

    67GT390FB wrote:
    2a4all wrote:
    SB 1257 is dead, again!
    defeated 19-21 2/4/09
    Do we know who flipped and if any text was changed? The last vote was 18-22.

  24. #24
    Regular Member dbc3804's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Henrico, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    79

    Post imported post

    Probably that one ********* that said he pressed the wrong button.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    199

    Post imported post

    lol...oh yeah, thanks for the reminder.

    Button 1: Support individual rights and the Constitution

    Button 2: Squash individual rights and screw the Constitution

    It's understandable that they occasional hit the wrong button. Going from one bill to the next, it can be hard to remember which way you were bribed to vote. That's probably why Obama loved his "Present" button so much.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •