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Thread: Montgomery Township police said parks are places where you can't carry a firearm

  1. #1
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Author of the article takes words out of context, writes using best method to get reaction.

    There was really no issue with the Montgomery Police Department, see follow-up posting via link.
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...358983#p358983

    http://www.thereporteronline.com/art...9760013759.txt

    By: Tony Di Domizio
    Have gun, will travel ... in municipal parks.

    The issue of a section of Pennsylvania law came up for debate at a Lower Salford Parks Board meeting last month, and it brings to light how the law may affect other municipalities in the area.

    The regulation in question states “no county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the

    laws of this commonwealth.”
    The law, enacted Jan. 30, 2007, and endorsed by 16 members of the state House basically says that anyone who is not prohibited from owning a firearm in the state can carry a handgun in public, no license required, and the gun must be visibly displayed, or not concealed.

    A municipality may not enact any ordinance or take any other action dealing with the regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of a firearm. It can, however, enact an ordinance, upon approval in a public referendum, that regulates the discharge of firearms within its boundaries.

    The Lower Salford situation revolved around resident Derek Price, of Meetinghouse Road, who brought to the attention of the supervisors and the park board that the township’s regulation of prohibiting guns in its parks not only conflicts with state law, but also abridges the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that guarantees the right of citizens to bear arms.

    “There are stipulations in the state Constitution that permit that, and we are not in a position to try and supercede and go over what the state tells us what the rights are,” said Kent Krauss, Lower Salford Township Parks Board chairman.

    Krauss said the parks board is an advisory board to the supervisors. His board met and discussed the issue and passed it on to the supervisors, he said.

    Township solicitor Jim Garrity agreed with Price, and Krauss said Garrity is working with the board to come up with some sort of plan.

    “It’s beyond our decision,” he said last month. “I think, as a whole, the board would like to prohibit weapons, but it’s not something that is up to us.”

    Krauss said there’s been very little comment on the situation. He expected the supervisors to review the law and do whatever was appropriate.

    “As a father of two young children, I don’t want to see (firearms be permitted in parks),” he said. “I’m very hopeful it will remain as it’s been.”

    The feeling is Lower Salford will allow guns to be visibly displayed on a person in township parks. Township policy is to question anyone bearing a gun in the park.

    The township does prohibit the discharge of firearms in township parks.

    “The solicitor reviewed it and we could remove the prohibition on legal carry,” Lower Salford Township Chief Thomas Medwid said. “If one had a permit to carry a concealed weapon, then they could have been carrying in parks all along.”

    He said on a constitutional basis, a local ordinance cannot supersede state law and you can’t prohibit open carry.

    “If it doesn’t say ‘township parks,’ then the assumption is it’s OK in township parks.” he said.

    He said the state doesn’t prohibit carrying guns in parks. There is a misconception between concealed carry and open carry, he said.

    Concealed carry is regulated by the state and then by the county, he said. To get a permit for a concealed weapon, one would need to apply with the Montgomery County Sheriff’s Department and state the reason for concealment, be it self-defense, business or law enforcement purposes.

    With this issue, Medwid doesn’t expect it to be a problem.

    “Am I expecting to be inundated with people? No, I’m not. We are aware of it and the solicitor is researching the ordinance,” he said. “We are not expecting a large increase of people that want to openly carry firearms.”

    Lansdale and Montgomery Township both have prohibitions against discharging a firearm in their respective parks.

    Lt. Gordon Simes of Montgomery Township police said township parks are posted with warnings of no carrying or discharging of firearms.

    “It will be enforced until such a time a decision is made to tell us to change the ordinance,” Simes said
    . “If something were to come down from supervisors, the parks and recreation ordinance would not be null and void because of one clause that’s stricken.”

    Sgt. Robert McDyre of Lansdale Borough Police said officers have encountered individuals carrying BB guns in parks, but couldn’t recall a time when officers seized a firearm off anybody in a park.

    He said it comes down to common sense when walking with a visibly displayed gun.

    “Any member of the community should know they will alarm people while openly displaying a gun while out in the community,” he said. “It’s just foolish.”

    Does someone want to have a outdoor meet of some kind when the weather warms up?

    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
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    I thought Hussien Obama Signed an Executive Order last week revoking all Park Carry Privledges?

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    You're thinking of National Park. What the article is talking about is the township park.

    Also, no Obama did not stop the new law afaik, mainly because it went active before be was sworn in to office.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    “Any member of the community should know they will alarm people while openly displaying a gun while out in the community,” [Sgt. RobertMcDyre of Lansdale Borough Police] said. “It’s just foolish.”
    Then perhaps Sgt. Robert McDyre ought to stop open carrying his police sidearm!

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    I was just going to post this article - kind of a confusing read - can somebody organize an event there and invite the press?

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    I'm going to have a long talk with the officer who made the statement tomorrow if I can get a hold of him. The chief if I'm not confusing the two, is out on a trip. I'm going to also have a talk with the township's elected officials to discuss the officer's statements.

    I'll just do the same which I did in regards to the Allegheny Sheriff's department which happened to be telling people OC was illegal until I called them.

    A few will be angry with me, but I'll damn well correct them.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Don'tcha just hate it when reporters "report" on firearms laws that they know absolutely nothing about?

  8. #8
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    statkowski, has the new training booklets been published yet? It's possible I might need to direct the officer who is confused to MPOETC.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Originally posted on the PAFOA site:

    From the MPOETC training booklet, course 09-201, pg. 45 Uniform Firearms Act Update: "Open Carry".

    Question #1 What is "open carry"? Answer #1 Open carry can be defined as carrying a legal firearm, loaded or unloaded, on your person unconcealed, with or without a valid and lawfully issused license to carry a firearm.

    Question #2 Is "Open Carry" legal in Pennsylvania? Answer #2 Yes, but with several exceptions: The Pennsylvania Uniform firearms Act is silent on the specific issuse of open carry. 6106 only prohibits carrying a firearm in a vehicle or concealed on or about one's person, except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, without a license and when no exemption applies.

    Carrying a firearm unconcealed on one's person does not violate 6106. However, a person who engaging in "open carry" of a firearm violates 6106 when that person enters a vehicle with the gun in his possession and that person does not possess a valid and lawfully issued license to carry a firearm and is not exempt from licensing. Also, a firearm cannot be open carried in an area where firearm possession is generally restricted.


  10. #10
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    statkowski, this officer says he is going to enforce a local ordinance even though there is state preemption. I'm at a loss for words.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  11. #11
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    No, wait. I know the words specifically which I'm going to say, "Official Oppression".
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Mike wrote:
    I was just going to post this article - kind of a confusing read - can somebody organize an event there and invite the press?
    This is exactly what I was thinking.

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    “We are not expecting a large increase of people that want to openly carry firearms.”



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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    statkowski, this officer says he is going to enforce a local ordinance even though there is state preemption. I'm at a loss for words.
    Do I smell a new motorcycle or truck?

    When will they learn that preemption means just that.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    http://www.thereporteronline.com/art...9760013759.txt

    Lt. Gordon Simes of Montgomery Township police said township parks are posted with warnings of no carrying or discharging of firearms.

    “It will be enforced until such a time a decision is made to tell us to change the ordinance,” Simes said
    .
    That decision has been made, Lt. Simes. It's called the Uniform Firearm Act, and it pre-empts your township ordinances.



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    We are not expecting a large increase of people that want to openly carry firearms.
    One of the best ways to insure a large increase in people open carrying in your area (at least temporarily) is to announce that you're going to enforce an anti-OC policy/ordinance, etc.


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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Alright, I talked with Lt. Simes a few minutes ago and he assures me the paper has taken his words out of context. The only ordinance the department will be enforcing is discharging firearms with regard to the exceptions.

    Lt Simes stated he nor any officer in his department will not infringe upon the rights given by the state or [US] constitution. He stated carry in the parks is okay due to state law and the signs will be changed after time is assigned in a council meeting to change the signs. Simes does realize open carry is legal and will not act unlawfully nor should anyone in his department.

    The paper wrote the article grossly out of context which made the statement appear like he was stating no guns in the park.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    So no new bike for grapeshot?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    YllwFvr wrote:
    So no new bike for grapeshot?
    Hey it wouldn't have been for me. I'm just a quiet. unassuming sort.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    YllwFvr wrote:
    So no new bike for grapeshot?
    Hey it wouldn't have been for me. I'm just a quiet. unassuming sort.

    Yata hey
    LOL!

    With artillery for an avatar!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    YllwFvr wrote:
    So no new bike for grapeshot?
    Hey it wouldn't have been for me. I'm just a quiet. unassuming sort.

    Yata hey
    LOL!

    With artillery for an avatar!
    Ya but its just loaded with grape.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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