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Thread: Police at my door

  1. #1
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    So as normal i'm open carrying in my holster at my girlfriends/my house now since i've been living there with her the last few months also and help pay bills.

    We are unloading my truck... Im holstered and my arms fulls of cloths and other junk im carrying into the house.

    We'll the crazy lady next door decideds to walk onto our property with a loud tone in her voice telling me im in california i cannot carry my weapon like that and that im offending her....

    I tell her im sorry but what i am doing is totally legal and im sorry if it offends her but she is on my property and i also attempted to hand her a open carry flyer and the Los Angeles DA memo about open carry and a copy of the penal codes.

    But of course she knows all the penal codes by heart and tells me to shove the papers up my ass... And i tell her we'll feel free to call the police if you feel offended on my property.

    I leave to get tacos for dinner for my girlfriend, a few friends of ours and myself. While im gone the police show up and talk to her and i get a call from my girlfriend.. I tell her dont let the police inside the house and tell them i had left.

    I arrive back to the house with food and my girlfriend panicing about something the neighbor had told her... I guess after the police told her they could not do anything about me unloaded open carrying

    the nieghbor came back into our front yard yelling and telling the girls at the house that "she was the wrong person to **** with"

    So when i hear of the further harrasment being done by the neighbor, I immediately pick up the phone and dial the local police.

    I unholster and everything knowing that im going to have to talk to police and knowing how much they would love to be going home after "getting another gun off the streets"

    They show up, Spot light me, Frisk me, Sit me on the curb and we beigin to talk.

    I tell them the neighbor is continuing to harass us at our home and i called them this time so maybe we could have someone there to help me and the neighbor have a cival conversation about the law and not have a yelling match in front of the whole neighborhood at 10:00 at night.

    Well sorry to say this did not happen. The officers kept me on the curb with a spot light on me and made me look like a criminal in front of all the neighborhood.

    The continued by telling me that open carry is perfectly legal "they wouldnt do it themselves"

    one officer: " Where i live no one knows im a cop, i put my gun and uniform in a backpack and walk into my house like that"

    another officer: "What do you think someone will think when they drive by this house and see you walking in with a gun?"

    my reposnse: "Dont try and rob that house"

    officer: "No They are gunna want to shoot it out with you"

    my response: "We'll while its perfectly legal for you to put your gun and uniform into a back pack and walk it into your house, it is ILLEGAL FOR ME TO CONCEAL ANY CONCEALABLE FIREARM.

    officers responce: "No it isnt"



    So i then told the officers, look i wanted to work things out with my neighbor not be sat out here and questioned and givin illegal ideas on how to transport my weapon and made to look like a criminal in my community.

    They did not want to help me talk with the neighbor, only wished to interogate me about my choice of open carry.



    HALF AN HOUR LATER-----

    Unsatisfied with how local PD handled the situation, The neighbor next door sends her son and a friend (which both dont even live at her house) over to my front door trying to luer me out into the front yard "just to talk"

    I wasnt born yesterday, I can tell when dumb teenagers are trying to start a fight and i could tell by the tone of their voices and postures that they were hostile towards me.



    I again call the police, the police are in front of our houses for a 3rd time around 11:00 at night before i could finally relax and try and go to sleep...

    I guess they told them to leave us alone im not sure... But i was really unsatisfied with how the officers handled the situation. They should have tried to put a stop to it the first time instead of interogating me outside in a spot light about why i shouldnt open carry and why i should illegally carry?



    When are california police officers gunna realize, They are the lucky few who get the advantages of Concealed Carry... and i guess the occasional broken law as long as nobody gets hurt?



    I'd really like to write a letter of complaint to the police department... But will this even help or do anything? Will anybody even read the letter?

    Do you guys know who i could talk to about this type of situation or who i should write?

    If not hopefully you still get some entertainment out of this story..i know i sure did, Drinkin a beer tellin the cops why i choose to carry was a high point in my life.





    I think i need one of those yard signs now... What was it?

    Something about "My neighbor doesnt careabouttheir right to bear arms, but i do, so better luck with that house over there"

    hahahahahahaha i think its something along those lines...

    have a good days guys thanx for reading.

  2. #2
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    Good luck in California with that. I don't know how the cops will handle it but I can tell you that CA is bankrupt. You may start to see many towns/counties laying off a lot of people... LEO's included.

    If the budget crisis doesin fact lead to cutbacks andif they are junior enough and they don't qualify under 12027, then they can learn about the unloaded OC as that will be their only way to carry.

  3. #3
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    I would file a complaint about being frisked and such... if you didn't consent to the search. They can only do that when they reasonably believe you are BOTH armed AND dangerous. Further, you could complain that they refused to take a report for your neighbor trespassing and harassing you. However, I'm not certain they have any legal obligation to do that - you'd need to find a particular statute or muni code being violated.

    As for dealing with your neighbor... you have two viable options:

    1) Invite her over for dinner. Explain that you want to mend fences - DO NOT talk about guns, just have her over to show her you're nice people. In fact, you might invite the rest of the neighbors and have a pot luck. She's more apt to be civil in a group, and you'll be showing your neighborly-ness to the spectators or your arguments. "You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

    2) Ignore her. Don't have yelling contests, don't try to change her mind. Don't call the cops (unless you have no other recourse - remember, the cops have better things to do). Hopefully she'll quickly lose interest.
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  4. #4
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    eraseallhope wrote:
    The continued by telling me that open carry is perfectly legal "they wouldnt do it themselves"

    one officer: " Where i live no one knows im a cop, i put my gun and uniform in a backpack and walk into my house like that"

    another officer: "What do you think someone will think when they drive by this house and see you walking in with a gun?"

    my reposnse: "Dont try and rob that house"

    officer: "No They are gunna want to shoot it out with you"

    my response: "We'll while its perfectly legal for you to put your gun and uniform into a back pack and walk it into your house, it is ILLEGAL FOR ME TO CONCEAL ANY CONCEALABLE FIREARM.

    officers responce: "No it isnt"

    Ive singled out the Police desimnated FUD.

    Firstly, the officer claims that they wouldnt open carry themselves. If they didnt strap on a gun at the beginning of their shift, this would be true. I might have asked 'What is that?" while pointing to their openly carried sidearm. If it is good enough for them, its good enough for the rest of us.

    Second, the assertion thata criminalwith a firearm will target another with a firearm for the purpose of shooting it out is ridiculous. It is possible but not very likely, that a someone who regularly carries their firearm could be targeted for robbery, homocide, or territorial aggression. But I believe that criminals try to avoid armed people in the same way that they would avoid police. The presence of a firearm is represents an increased risk, not an excuse to have a shootout. Criminals usually arent interested in risking their life for their goals.

    Carrying a concealed weapon (12025)is a misdemeanor, and therefore 'illegal'. I might have asked him if he was advocating concealed carry without a license- a crime in the State of California. If the weapon is loaded (12031) inside incorporated city limits, thats another charge. Would he have you break that law too?

    Now about your encounter. It appears by your account that your contact with the police was voluntary. You called them to report your neighbors reaction and trespass. You submitted to a search and answered their questions. After you were searched and sat on the curb, you didnt ask whether you were being detained or if you were the subject of an investigation. Basically, I think these guys were pissed off that they were called out twice for what is essentially a dispute between neighbors. Since you were armed, they viewed you as the aggressor in spite of the neighbors trespass and disturbance created by her irrational fear.

    Unfortunately I dont believe there is much recourse with the police department, but your neighbor did learn that UOC is legal.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

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    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    For a start...

    Get yourself an audio and video recording device (one device or two) and USE THEM (as allowed by law) with your neighbor and the police.

    Learn your rights - especially the one not to talk when questioned by the police.

    Write a letter to the Chief and to the counsel members about the incident. Get the incident and others on the record - be a sore thumb.

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    I am not a lawyer.

    I've never read a court opinionthat allowed police to seize, patdown, and keep in a spotlight a citizen against whom they had no reasonable articulable suspicion about a crime.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Where is your recorder????

    Write a letter to your neighborputtingthem on notice (politely) that they are not allowed to enter upon your property and that next time they do this it will be trespassing. Send a copy to the PD. Mail all this USPS registered return receipt etc... (trespass warnings are only good for 30 days? read 602 PC). Put up no trespassing signs too.

    Get a CCTV cam. set up to cover your front door/lawn area. Catch them on tape on your property (after they have received notice) and then insist the PD make a 602 PC crime report.

    Do not engage them in any dialog ever! As for the PD, be sure to talk to a supervisor, and file a complaint EVERY TIME you don't get the service you deserve from the local PD. Be clear and reasonable but put it in writing.

    You are the one trying to avoid conflict here. Make that very clear. (have us proof read the letter in PM if you need.)

    When you UOC have a witness (and recorder) asit would be easy for her to articulate a brandishing charge (claiming you unholstered rudely -417PC)if you can't refute it.

    Be careful with this situation.




  8. #8
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Sad, sad encounter with the PD. I'd be complaining, as well. Clearly they were confused, the conflict was with your neighbor - her being the aggressor.

    I must agree with Cato. The only way you'll get action on this is diligence. Maybe you can sit this neighbor down at a friendly dinner. But judging from the way she sent her son and his friend to fight her battle. She's a coward, and should be discarded as such. Clearly, starting an altercation she cannot finish, nor has the intelligence to be in.

    I do like the idea of sending written notice to both the PD and her, saying any further visits to your property is trespassing. I believe motion-sensitive/activated cameras are pretty inexpensive now. Just remember to post your 2"x2" sticker that "these premises are under video surveillance".

    You can even put up a "my neighbor is unarmed" with an arrow sign out front.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    Gee Marshaul..still don't think there's a STIGMA?

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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    I would file a complaint about being frisked and such... if you didn't consent to the search. They can only do that when they reasonably believe you are BOTH armed AND dangerous. Further, you could complain that they refused to take a report for your neighbor trespassing and harassing you. However, I'm not certain they have any legal obligation to do that - you'd need to find a particular statute or muni code being violated.

    As for dealing with your neighbor... you have two viable options:

    1) Invite her over for dinner. Explain that you want to mend fences - DO NOT talk about guns, just have her over to show her you're nice people. In fact, you might invite the rest of the neighbors and have a pot luck. She's more apt to be civil in a group, and you'll be showing your neighborly-ness to the spectators or your arguments. "You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

    2) Ignore her. Don't have yelling contests, don't try to change her mind. Don't call the cops (unless you have no other recourse - remember, the cops have better things to do). Hopefully she'll quickly lose interest.
    I would walk in front of my house everyday with the gun (can be loaded even if it is your property). I would like to see her call the cops every day. In time, the cops are not going to listen to her anymore.

    But that's just me.



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    I'm 100% for open carry, but in CA you have to have all your ducks
    lined up in a row first, I would not do it unless I had a recording device
    or someone to video tape.


    Write your letter of complaint but make sure you have a lawyer or paralegal
    check for grammar and legal errors.

    I would send certified letters to neighbor informing her to stay off your property and to the cops complaining about their handling it.

    The neighbor could simply lie and say you threatened her, bingo!
    Bigger mess than you could ever have wanted.



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    what part of CA if you dont mind me asking

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    At least you kept you cool with the leo, you should have informed your neighbor
    that she would be tresspassing if she came back on your property after telling you to
    do a blantently painful act with your papers.
    Would be interesting to see if you can "tresspass" by proxy when she sent over the thugs.
    Now buy the recorder, and start getting the girlfriend to arm herself from that bunch.


    Next time the leo claim you get shot by bad guys, point out that isn't a problem if they do their job.:celebrate


    What ever happened with that sherriff upstate who would issue cc licenses to qualfied persons in noway in h*ll counties?


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    KS_to_CA wrote:
    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    I would file a complaint about being frisked and such... if you didn't consent to the search. They can only do that when they reasonably believe you are BOTH armed AND dangerous. Further, you could complain that they refused to take a report for your neighbor trespassing and harassing you. However, I'm not certain they have any legal obligation to do that - you'd need to find a particular statute or muni code being violated.

    As for dealing with your neighbor... you have two viable options:

    1) Invite her over for dinner. Explain that you want to mend fences - DO NOT talk about guns, just have her over to show her you're nice people. In fact, you might invite the rest of the neighbors and have a pot luck. She's more apt to be civil in a group, and you'll be showing your neighborly-ness to the spectators or your arguments. "You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

    2) Ignore her. Don't have yelling contests, don't try to change her mind. Don't call the cops (unless you have no other recourse - remember, the cops have better things to do). Hopefully she'll quickly lose interest.
    I would walk in front of my house everyday with the gun (can be loaded even if it is your property). I would like to see her call the cops every day. In time, the cops are not going to listen to her anymore.

    But that's just me.

    I wouldn't do that. First, the lady doesn't know anything about guns so she won't even notice (even a knowledgeable person might not be able to tell) that it is loaded or unloaded. So carrying loaded won't make any difference.

    Second, what constitutes a "public area" in which you may not carry loaded can be a little ambiguous. If you walk out your driveway/sidewalk to a common parking lot or common sidewalk (which is still technically on private property) you may now be in a public area and subject to arrest for illegal carry of a loaded concealable weapon.See PEOPLE,v. TAPIA, 129 Cal. App. 4th 1153; 29 Cal. Rptr. 3d 158 (2005);PEOPLE,v. OVERTURF, 64 Cal. App. 3d Supp. 1; 134 Cal. Rptr. 769; (1976 ).

    Third, if you are doing it just to piss off the neighbor and not simply as part of your regular life then you are simply being antagonistic and I don't think that is helpful.



  15. #15
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    eraseallhope wrote:
    the nieghbor came back into our front yard yelling and telling the girls at the house that "she was the wrong person to @#$% with"



    HALF AN HOUR LATER-----

    Unsatisfied with how local PD handled the situation, The neighbor next door sends her son and a friend (which both dont even live at her house) over to my front door trying to luer me out into the front yard "just to talk"

    I wasnt born yesterday, I can tell when dumb teenagers are trying to start a fight and i could tell by the tone of their voices and postures that they were hostile towards me.

    Obviously combative neighbors and not too bright. She knows you are armed and wants to start a fight about it instead of having a civil discourse about her viewpoints. This is so typical of people who are anti- any thing. If you don't see their way yell, shout, threaten, try to make you look stupid for daring to not see or comply with what they want.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    eraseallhope wrote:
    the nieghbor came back into our front yard yelling and telling the girls at the house that "she was the wrong person to @#$% with"



    HALF AN HOUR LATER-----

    Unsatisfied with how local PD handled the situation, The neighbor next door sends her son and a friend (which both dont even live at her house) over to my front door trying to luer me out into the front yard "just to talk"

    I wasnt born yesterday, I can tell when dumb teenagers are trying to start a fight and i could tell by the tone of their voices and postures that they were hostile towards me.

    Obviously combative neighbors and not too bright. She knows you are armed and wants to start a fight about it instead of having a civil discourse about her viewpoints. This is so typical of people who are anti- any thing. If you don't see their way yell, shout, threaten, try to make you look stupid for daring to not see or comply with what they want.
    no kidding. almost sounds like shes trying to get that "guy with a gun" to shoot her son and friend just to prove a point. thats f***ed up

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Cass wrote:
    Gee Marshaul..still don't think there's a STIGMA?
    One person is not a stigma.

    An anecdote does not statistics make.

  18. #18
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    I live in Long Beach California



    My parents live in Lakewood and im there alot... I've called both police departments before and they've told me that unloaded open carry is legal since the December D.A Memo.



    oh well...

  19. #19
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    ...while not likely, what Ca needs is for every sporting/gun enthusiast citizen to move out...that way the fruits and nuts and lawyers could consume each other, and we could live as free men...until the state was safe for human habitation again....

    Things got this screwed up because the majority of the citizens did nothing to stop it...and it'll stay the same or get worse until the majority of the citizens stand up and change it...by legislation, boycotts, or other legal means....till then, it's totally un-American....I feel sorry for those of you affected so....

  20. #20
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    thats why i left. all i saw was 2 kinds of people... those who break the law and those who bitch that the laws are to soft (then turn around and bitch about how the cops are corrupt and not doing a good job)

  21. #21
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    simply get a restraining order against her and trespass her from your property and have her arrested the next time she steps foot on it.

    It sounds to me as if this person may not mentally stable and could possibly pose a potential danger to others....



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    suntzu wrote:
    simply get a restraining order against her and trespass her from your property and have her arrested the next time she steps foot on it.

    It sounds to me as if this person may not mentally stable and could possibly pose a potential danger to others....

    ooooh! thats a good idea!

  23. #23
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    suntzu wrote:
    simply get a restraining order against her and trespass her from your property and have her arrested the next time she steps foot on it.

    It sounds to me as if this person may not mentally stable and could possibly pose a potential danger to others....

    See CA Fam. Code section FC 6389 below:
    • 6218. "Protective order" means an order that includes any of the following restraining orders, whether issued ex parte, after notice and hearing, or in a judgment: (a) An order described in Section 6320 enjoining specific acts of abuse. (b) An order described in Section 6321 excluding a person from a dwelling. (c) An order described in Section 6322 enjoining other specified behavior. top
    • 6388. A willful and knowing violation of a protective order, as defined in Section 6218, is a crime punishable as provided by Section 273.6 of the Penal Code. top
    • 6389. (a) A person subject to a protective order, as defined in Section 6218, shall not own, possess, purchase, or receive a firearm while that protective order is in effect. Every person who owns, possesses, purchases or receives, or attempts to purchase or receive a firearm while the protective order is in effect is punishable pursuant to subdivision (g) of Section 12021 of the Penal Code.
    [line]One problem with getting restraining orders against someone is that they often retaliate by getting one against you. In CA, that could be a problem as then you may have to "turn in" your firearms. I would caution against getting a restraining order against a neighbor without first consulting with a good firearms attorney.

  24. #24
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    If a judge tries to disarm you with a restraining order, you give the gun to the girlfriend.
    Then you file a protective order against the judge, and bailif.
    See how the judge likes being disarmed also.
    The vindictiveness of these upstanding citizens will prove you were justified.

    We had a great american down here.
    Everything the government did to him, he returned the favor.
    IRS liened his business, he liened the IRS agents house.
    They towed his trucks, he towed thier cars.

    I nominated him for man of the year.
    He didn't get a lot of votes, but when I explained why there was a lot of support.



  25. #25
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    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    If a judge tries to disarm you with a restraining order, you give the gun to the girlfriend.
    Then you file a protective order against the judge, and bailif.
    See how the judge likes being disarmed also.
    The vindictiveness of these upstanding citizens will prove you were justified.

    We had a great american down here.
    Everything the government did to him, he returned the favor.
    IRS liened his business, he liened the IRS agents house.
    They towed his trucks, he towed thier cars.

    I nominated him for man of the year.
    He didn't get a lot of votes, but when I explained why there was a lot of support.

    that is the best thing iv ever heard. who was it?

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