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Thread: Ryan Frederick Conviction

  1. #1
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    Guilty of voluntary manslaughter. What sentence will he get?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    We may never see it, but I predict (ha ha easy to do when there is no way to verify) that once the jurors get out and read some of the details that they were not allowed to see or consider in the deliberation, they will develop a very sick feeling in the pit of their stomach.

    TFred


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    tripledipper wrote:
    Guilty of voluntary manslaughter. What sentence will he get?
    I'll get back to you when my rage over injustice settles down.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Despicable.

    And sets a VERY BAD PRECEDENT.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    We need to outlaw no knock warrants in Virginia (or at least set a FIRM set of standards for them)

    They are a DANGER to us all.

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    Citizen wrote:
    tripledipper wrote:
    Guilty of voluntary manslaughter. What sentence will he get?
    I'll get back to you when my rage over injustice settles down.
    Actually, it may be avertable.

    I'm wondering if the defense will appeal on the grounds that the warrant was tainted and invalid, or that something was improperly withheld from the jury.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    My letter to Governor Kaine:
    Ryan Frederick was unjustly indicted and convicted of voluntary manslaughter when he proactively acted to defend his life and property from what he perceived was an invasion of his home.

    In the process a Chesapeake detective was fatally shot on Mr. Frederick's property.

    This conviction sets a very bad precedent for future protection of our rights as citizens. It makes no difference if the person invading my home is a criminal or a law-enforcement officer. If someone illegally and forcibly enters or attempts to enter my residence, they will deal with the consequence of deadly fire.

    That is one of the most sacrosanct and precious rights granted by the Constitution and Bill of Rights and will be, nay, SHOULD BE, exercised by more lawful citizens to protect their liberty and property.

    It is your duty as Governor of THE FOUNDRY OF LIBERTY, Virginia, to uphold Constitutional law, pardon and free this man. He was accused by a discredited prison narc and was being invaded for allegedly growing marijuana in his home for personal use.

    The drug war must be ended immediately and kowtowing to illegal and unconstitutional federal mandates of that and other natures must be permanently ceased. I have forwarded a copy of a 10th Amendment Resolution being entered in Oklahoma, Florida, Washington and New Hampshire, among others, that MUST BE INTRODUCED in Virginia. The federal government is ultimately responsible for the usurping legislation and policy that made what this man was doing considered as a "crime" in the first place. That it came to the consequence of an honorable officer of the peace being laid to rest is unfortunate, but I believe that myself and many other Virginians would have acted in the exact same manner if our homes, lives and safety were threatened the way Mr. Frederick's was.

    Again, I implore you, pardon Ryan Frederick and make an example of this case as another reason that the "war on drugs" is a failed exercise in tyranny and usurpation of individual and state sovereignty.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    WOW!!


    "Wylde007 FOR GOVERNOR"
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    tripledipper wrote:
    Guilty of voluntary manslaughter. What sentence will he get?
    Voluntary manslaughter is a Class 5 felony. Ryan could go home with credit for time served.
    ยง 18.2-10. Punishment for conviction of felony; penalty.
    (e) For Class 5 felonies, a term of imprisonment of not less than one year nor more than 10 years, or in the discretion of the jury or the court trying the case without a jury, confinement in jail for not more than 12 months and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both.
    He was found not guilty of using a firearm in the commission of a felony, and not guilty of possession of marijuana with intent to distribute.

    Hopefully, LEAs will get the message that these thug-like methods of warrant service need to be rethought.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Maybe someone who is more lawyerly can explain to me the hows and whys that allow the judge to instruct the jury that they may consider lesser charges.

    I really don't get this part of the case.

    If the state believes that Frederick was guilty of first degree murder and both sides present their cases, the jury should then decide if that is what he did.

    It seems to be rather disingenuous to allow the jury to "split the difference" as I saw in the Reason blog, between first degree murder and acquittal. It's almost like the judge said "if you didn't think he killed a cop on purpose, but you want to convict him of something, here, you can say he did this instead.

    What kind of justice is that?

    Here's my specific problem with this verdict:

    The prosecutor says he intentionally and knowingly killed a cop on purpose. That is either true or it is not true. If the state cannot prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, then that means that Frederick's actions fall back to legitimately defending his home, life and property from invasions by those who would certainly be willing to do him harm. Busting in a door would seem to provide ample evidence of criminal intent.

    This "middle of the road" option, which has no basis in any facts that I've seen discussed, seems to be nothing more than a guarantee that justice is not being served here.

    Maybe, given the uncertainty of the outcome, it is in Frederick's best interest to have a middle road option that is more likely to be taken, but I really don't see how it passes ethical muster in this case.

    TFred


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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    TFred, think appeals.

    If the only charge were capital murder, and Ryan was found guilty, he'd appeal.

    If he were found not guilty, the prosecution would appeal (jury nullification?).

    This way, a verdict might be reached that will be satisfactory to all. In addition, given all the noise about improper warrants, the appeal issues seem to tilt in Ryan's favor.

    Apparently, the judge didn't see a binary situation here.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    This pretty much means that you have to verify any one invading your homes id to make sure that they are not the police!

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    WV XD Guy wrote:
    This pretty much means that you have to verify any one invading your homes id to make sure that they are not the police!
    This is exactly why the charge and verdict are of such great concern.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    wylde007 wrote:
    WV XD Guy wrote:
    This pretty much means that you have to verify any one invading your homes id to make sure that they are not the police!
    This is exactly why the charge and verdict are of such great concern.
    better to be found guilty than found dead



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    Jury recommended the max sentence (10 years). PilotOnline:
    A Chesapeake jury called for a maximum sentence of 10 years for Ryan Frederick, convicted earlier today of voluntary manslaughter the 2008 slaying of a Detective Jarrod Shivers during a drug raid.

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    2a4all wrote:
    Voluntary manslaughter is a Class 5 felony.. .
    He was found not guilty of using a firearm in the commission of a felony, and not guilty of possession of marijuana with intent to distribute.
    How can he be convicted ofa felony, but not be guilty of using a firearm in commission ofa felony?

    It just goes to show you that the system is seriously flawed.


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    VApatriot wrote:
    2a4all wrote:
    Voluntary manslaughter is a Class 5 felony.. .
    He was found not guilty of using a firearm in the commission of a felony, and not guilty of possession of marijuana with intent to distribute.
    How can he be convicted ofa felony, but not be guilty of using a firearm in commission ofa felony?

    It just goes to show you that the system is seriously flawed.
    Those are lesser included offenses. There is a cascade of included offenses depending on where you enter the list.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Great win for the war on drugs, the simple cost was another cops life.



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    WTKR is airing an interview @11pm tonight from someone who was next door the night of the raid talking about what he heard. Don't like the drug war? Hit this poll http://www.wtkr.com

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    VApatriot wrote:
    2a4all wrote:
    Voluntary manslaughter is a Class 5 felony.. .
    He was found not guilty of using a firearm in the commission of a felony, and not guilty of possession of marijuana with intent to distribute.
    How can he be convicted ofa felony, but not be guilty of using a firearm in commission ofa felony?

    It just goes to show you that the system is seriously flawed.
    The same way someone can be found guilty of using a firearm in the commission of a felony, but not found guilty of any other charge against them. It happened! Guy had a heck of a time explaining to the other inmates what he was in prison for - he ended up showing everybody his paperwork to prove he was telling the truth. IIRC he has been released for a few years now.

    It happens. Jury wants to be sure someone is held accountable for something. Jury recommending the full load says something even though the verdict was for a lesser included offense.

    In this case as all others, the recommendation of the jury will be considered, along with a host of other facts and emotions, at a seperate sentencing hearing that probably will not be held for more than 3 months. Probation Officer has to complete a full social history and other information that when put together is called a Pre-Sentence Report. It's supposed to cover all aspects of his life from childhood to present - family, school, friends, home environment, illnesses, disabilities, work history, psychological tests done prior to event (if any), psychological tests done after event but before trial, psychological tests done after trial, victim impact statements, statements of community support, potential jobs after release, potential living arrangements after release, and the like.

    I have not looked to see if any claims of mistrial or notice of appeal were made yet. Either of those are possible and could complicate matters. This is not going to be over for quite some time unless he has had too much and just takes what he can get at this point.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    Disgusting, but not surprising.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Disgusting, but not surprising.
    +1


    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    I am disappointed, but I am not surprised. I expected it the moment the judge allowed lesser included offenses, instead of it being capital murder or nothing.

    Voluntary Manslaughter in VA requires both malice and intent. In light of the testimony and evidence, there was no malice. This would have been perfect for a directed verdict of not guilty.



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    KBCraig wrote:
    I am disappointed, but I am not surprised. I expected it the moment the judge allowed lesser included offenses, instead of it being capital murder or nothing.

    Voluntary Manslaughter in VA requires both malice and intent. In light of the testimony and evidence, there was no malice. This would have been perfect for a directed verdict of not guilty.

    Yes, but one of Leviathan's minions has beentaken,so right or wrong satisfaction must be had and the peasantry must be reminded of the heirarchy, you know.

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    KBCraig wrote:
    SNIP Voluntary Manslaughter in VA requires both malice and intent. In light of the testimony and evidence, there was no malice. This would have been perfect for a directed verdict of not guilty.
    Thinking malice and intent would add up to murder, to this layman, I made a quick check.

    Here is what I found:

    Malice . . . is unnecessary in manslaughter cases and is the touchstone by which murder and manslaughter cases are distinguished.

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...02&invol=1
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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